Wraith op?

He was, which is why I agreed with the direction of buffs, other than the 'true invisibility' change that they threw in there. But I do also think they buffed the numbers ever so slightly too much, to the point where it's basically a free hit for the wraith at most loops.

I honestly don't know, I'll have to think on it, but it needs to be something less frustrating for both sides for it to be any good for the game, and I doubt we'd get any meaningful changes to him anyway now.

Thematically, it makes sense, but it was one of those minor changes that by itself was fine, but then combined with the buffs he got after, became overkill, because now survivors need all the forewarning they can get. And to make it worse, survivors get like no points for wasting his time, just as with Victor because of bad design choices lol

Yeah idk what's up with the trapper in that regard...just make trapper bag base kit already!!!

It's a model add-on to me. Common but good. We have way too many that are bad but common or bad but high rarity, and I don't know which is worse.

He's not OP. His base is just acceptable at best and we're talking about normal DbD, not the " CoMPeTiTivE" nonsense where he clearly can't compete. His "True invisibility" only works from a considerable distance but is still vulnerable to SpineChill while in sidede the True Invis range, his speed doesn't mean ######### when he has to announce his presence and is slow at uncloacking so in chases it's useless unless survivor go into dead zones. They changed the speed problem for an uncloacking speed problem. You're still relying on bodyblocking and why? Because you still can't make the hit before they reach something.

He needs people to be bad at survivor and camp pallets so he can make use of Lunge. Myes at tier 3 is far stronger than Wraith's Lunge, not because of the 1 shot, but because Myers can use the extended Lunge far more often and far quicker, making it much more pratical and effective. Red Stain Mindgames with Tier3 Myers are far better than Wraith uncloack Lunge.

All a Survivor has to do is either pre drop the pallet or drop it as they hear the clapping of the bell but most survivors will just wait till you're in Lunge and then ofc they get hit, i'm 1000% sure this is why BHVR changed the pallet hit validation, people have been complaining about Wraith too much but what BHVR and those players don't understand is that they should drop the pallet before he can lunge, he can't do ######### if you drop the pallet before he lunges. You're 1000% safe unless it's a really short loop where he can get you on either side but that's on you for being in an unsafe loop. So again Survivors bad play is how Wraith can win.

All my wins as Wraith after the changes were all against bad players, once i got into the 3rd MMR test i had such high MMR from beating scrubbs that all of my MMR matches were disastrous, super long queues and then the matches were complete disasters, i could barely get a hook.

I appreciate you being polite about it. Most people who defend the Wraith do so in a way that's aggressive and condescending. "He's fine". "He's fine, he's fine, he's fine. He's C tier at best. You just need to get better". It's not even me that people usually say this to because to be honest I've almost given up even trying to explain to anybody why the Wraith is a profound annoyance.

I get that every killer needs to be challenging to some extent, and that yes, certain gameplay elements will make those killers easier to handle, Wraith included. I just think that - for some reason - while so many people endlessly discuss things like what can be done about Spirit and whether Leatherface is too cheap, there seems to be segment of this forum (and therefore the fanbase in general) that's devoted to defending The Wraith at all costs. It seems that a lot of it comes from the fact that he was apparently seen as the weakest killer in the game for years, or at least that's a claim I've seen. I honestly don't understand how that's even possible given his abilities, but fair enough, people are happy to see him become more viable. But I think that - like the Trickster - instead of the character being given much of a serious inspection the developers basically just did a surface pass, saying "okay let's make this faster, turn this thing off, and...yeah alright, he's better now".

All killers can get a free hit if you're just not paying attention, don't have enough sense to use your surroundings, etc. I understand that part. But Wraith has a much easier time of getting that free hit. There are countless situations where the Wraith can come near, the player won't be able to detect him, and he can uncloak nearby and zoom into view for the smack. At that point it's pretty much over, window or otherwise. All he has to do is cloak again and catch up to you whenever he feels like it. He can even turn invisible, stick around a nearby corner and wait 20 seconds for the person to stop running and looping, then rush up, uncloak, and get the down then.

I guess what I'm saying is this: There's very little actual counterplay (or even warning) against a character that's only visible when they're close enough to hit you, can move at a profoundly greater speed than you can, doesn't have any sight or sound penalties while invisible, is faster at lunging out of cloak than survivors are at running speed, AND can do all of this without even needing to use his bell anymore, which I assumed was the one thing that they gave the character to balance out all the rest of these tactics. The character just has too many things going for him, a combination of too many advantages. Bubba is slow but he has an insta-down saw. Huntress is of average speed but she's got crazy hatchets. Several characters can teleport and not much else. Wraith has invisibility, super speed, a fast lunge out of cloak, a lunge that's way faster and covers more ground than any other character, AND silence. That's just too much to me. No player should have to stock up on a Wraith defense kit or pray that gens are near windows and strong loops just to have an adequate chance against one specific killer out of two dozen. Do you get where I'm coming from?

No, I actually didn't used to have any unique feelings about facing Wraith just like I still don't have any unique feelings about facing roughly 75% of the roster. Sometimes I'd win, sometimes I'd lose, and - at the time at least - I didn't have the issue of most Wraith players camping while invisible. In other words he felt like just another killer, no better or worse than most of the others. He felt as fair and balanced as many of the other killers.

What suddenly changed wasn't even popular opinion or any kind of announcement (I don't follow social media so I usually don't know about changes unless I read about them here), it was a match against him when he wasn't using the bell. It totally threw me, I actually really liked the concept of the character having these huge crazy paranormal advantages yet all of them being totally balanced by the guy having to almost literally stand still and bang his bell to let you know that he was coming. In this match, that wasn't happening. I was running around the Red Forest, wondering why I hadn't seen or heard the killer in a couple of minutes, then suddenly I see him uncloak out of the corner of my eye and BOOM, he flies over and hits me. I was utterly confused. Where was the bell?

My only reasonable assumption, based on the speed of his lunge and the fact that he managed to play the entire match in total silence, thus negating virtually all natural defenses that survivors of this game are given, was that someone was hacking him. Nope, I then come to find out that eliminating his bell, nullifying the terror radius and turning his lunge attack into a super power was all intentional. I hated it. Sure enough, there's been a massive uptick in Wraith players since then, as well as an equal uptick in the amount of players who abuse his abilities (which is so easy to do I simply won't believe anyone who tries to claim that any other killer is easier to play cheap with). It rapidly escalated to the point that I utterly despise playing any match with him. I mean I truly hate it. I'd rather play ten Spirits in a row that one Wraith. A Wraith game isn't challenging, a Wraith game isn't fun. A Wraith game is spending the entire match in constant anxiety, wondering when he's going to suddenly show up next to you and end your game. I honestly don't even like playing as Wraith anymore because it's too easy, too cheap, and I legitimately feel bad for the survivors (many of whom still DC whenever I reveal myself).

This isn't just me and a handful of other people just being too inexperienced or not playing right. While I admit that such an element can and sometimes does play a factor, the fact is that the killer was given a lazy buff pass without any apparent regard to balance. My condolences go to anyone who felt that he was somehow in any way too worthless to ever bother using. But now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and instead of celebrating that, I think that people need to be a bit more reasonable in understanding why this is a problem.

No, he's not OP, he has no chase power, just speedy stealth. And that combo has an iridescent in it

All I can say is that I don't recall ever having any issues with Wraith before the buff, which at first I wasn't even aware he'd been given, so either I and a bunch of people suddenly started underperforming against him all at once, or his buff is cheap and his defenders will find every excuse that exists to justify it.

He can get a free hit on a survivor, and then when that survivor runs away he can easily (and quickly) become invisible again, rush right back up to the survivor, uncloak and hit them again. "Speedy stealth" and "chase power" mean the same thing, especially when this ability is taken into consideration.

This is the stuff I just don't get. The evidence is right there but people are like "nah".

I guess it's just hard for me to imagine him as especially terrible. I get that the general sentiment is that if a killer's powers are not directly harmful then many people consider them to be "worthless M1 killers" but I don't know, I just don't see how someone with his abilities could ever have been perceived as bad, let alone "the worst". Not that I don't believe your opinion, I've seen others say the same.

I just don't like him as he is now. Invisibility, super speed, survivor finder, silence, AND a mega-lunge? That's just way too much to me. I wouldn't mind all that crap if it were balanced better.