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What if these 4 perks were built into the base mechanics of the game?
For survivors: Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike
For Killers: Corrupt Intervention and Pop Goes the Weasel
Reasoning: These perks essentially act as band-aid fixes for core mechanics of the game. For survivors, it's getting tunneled and camped. For killers, it's gen speed and base gen regression. By making these perks base kit, it takes the focus off of them and players don't feel forced to make half their build around these meta perks, causing stale playstyles for both sides. Other gen regression perks and survivor "2nd chance" perks can be minimized as well so they don't stack as dramatically. Additionally, other perks can be buffed to create new, interesting builds without survivors worrying about getting tunneled/camped and killers worrying about gen speed.
Comments
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I would add kindred for survivors!
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Maybe bloodwarden too, kindred for survivors.
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I don't think pop should be built in.
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Would be way too strong for the survivors since there are four of them.
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I would say Kindred (without the killer aura showing) would be a good one as base kit for survivors.
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Personally, I am not a fan of strong Perks being Basekit. IMO those Perks are all worth a Slot, so it should stay like this.
I would rather have some weak Perks as Basekit to not clutter the Bloodweb too much. Something like No One Left Behind or Monstrous Shrine.
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I think having a weaker version of these perks being basekit is fine.
- 30 seconds of mini Corrupt and only a 10% gen kick from mini pop.
- 20 second mini DS (enough time to crawl to a nearby pallet or into the open for flashlight person) and mini Kindred that only lasts for maybe 5 seconds after a survivor is hooked. No BT basekit since I feel like it and DS would be too much.
Just little changes that means survivors can't spawn in and immediately work on gens and a short ds so killers can't immediately pick you up.
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DS, Corrupt, and Kindred, and Thrill of The Hunt should all be base-kit.
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20s DS probably would be the most useless game mechanics in dbd
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Survivors already have 16 perks to a killer's 4. I feel this would be too powerful.
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Replace DS with Kindred and we have a deal. I feel DS is a perk that should be brought. Idk why it just feels wrong to have it implemented into the base kit of survivors. Feels like something bad could happen and would happen. Plus it's a surprise perk so it works better this way.
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i agree with this, i think a mini bt might be fine base as well as a kindred that shows all your allies (no killer auras) would be acceptable. and a short corrupt and maybe 15% pop would also be fine in my opinion, it would give kicking a gen you chased survivors off of actually have a purpose.
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Nope. Killers would need ruin base kit bare minimum to deal with 8 guaranteed "second" chances. Like holy mother of Lightborn.
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There's no killer perks that should be basekit.
As for survivors, kindred should be, but BT and DS only in an altered form to ACTUALLY prevent tunneling
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Pop should not be basekit.
No survivor perks should be base kit.
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I can't make this stronger because it would make current DS pointless. Here's a few reasons why this mini DS would be decent.
- Gives you time to crawl to a pallet
- Killer wastes time slugging you
- Killer can't immediately pick you up after getting farmed without BT
- Can crawl somewhere in the open if someone has a flashlight
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How can you get farmed without bt if bt is basekit?
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Bt instead of ds
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Instead of DS, it should be BT and Kindred (no killer aura). This would help Solo Q a lot without really changing SWF.
As far as killers go, idk. I feel ike most killer perks are either too strong or too weak to be base kit. I'd have to really think about that one.
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In a weaker, toned down form I'd be up for it
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They'd have to be heavily nerfed to warrant being base kit.
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No to all 4. Those are 4 strong meta perks and you want that to be your base game? That's busted. Can you imagine staking base 20% on top of Opression for example? That's a Super kick by Shawn Michaels by the cost of just 1 perk... DS and BT in all 4 survs in every match? You're insane....
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If everyone gets kindred then SWF benefits aswell, that's 1 more perk someone doesn't have to run to help the team, assuming there's no comms just in game swf.
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Passive Monstrous Shrine would be a neat basement buff but it's probably strong enough already, just wish the perk got a buff one day.
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I'd be all for Bond as survivor basekit, any killer-reading info as basekit would feel like too much to me. On the other side I think Corrupt Intervention would get profoundly annoying (could you imagine being abruptly cut off of a gen 100 times a day?) but Blood Warden is kind of an interesting one.
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Mini DS still punishes the killer even when they don't wanna tunnel. What about the rescuer hidding and leaving killer with nobody to chase? is killer just gonna leave 2 guys free and WALK to somewhere else on the map because he can't do jack ######### about you or the other person who rescued?
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It's only 20 seconds mate. That's enough time for you to down the recently unhooked survivor and glance around for someone else before picking them back up. No killer should ever get hit by a mini DS. I don't even think with Unbreakable recovery speeds a survivor can get themselves up before the timer runs out.
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The amount of people actually thinking DS and BT should be basekit is appalling.
Kindred (without killer aura) would be the only perk worth turning into a basekit mechanic since it helps solos and doesn’t really improve SWFs.
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That's 20 seconds x 12 hooks, this is literally 240 seconds, 4 ENTIRE MINUTES....What you are proposing might sound like a tunneling deterrant but it isn't, it's another version of You Can't Touch Me, which is what pre nerf DS did. Like i said if a killer can't find the person who did the rescue what do think will happen? they have no choice but waste time tunneling the survivor who was rescued and obviously the survivor will either let themselves get downed to force the DS onto killer or they'll jump in a locker and force the DS onto killer, again You Can't Touch Me or the killer let's 2 guys be free to do whatever while he is mid way somewhere. So unless that killer has BBQ and sees someone to go for he is in a ######### position cause he can't get another hook. Killers already have to play like DS is always there since now there is always an Obsession so killers can't tell if the perk is in the match or not and you still want to force killers to respect a base mini DS?
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I agree with kindred only.
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They should have Hook works like PH cage, and adding Early game collapse or something (like activate 2 of 3 switch to start doing Gen)
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Your mathematics are kinda wrong mate. Mini DS would only work on unhooks and you can't get 12 unhooks in a match, so at max it would be 2 minutes 40 seconds. This is only IF you immediately down the survivor after the unhook every single time, which means your face camping.
This only hurts killers who immediately try and pick up someone who was farmed off the hook. 20 seconds goes extremely quick and just doing something like looking for the unhooking survivor, or flashlight person or a gen/pallet to kick will take some of that time.
I also want to say not a lot of killers respect DS anymore lol I'd say if get farmed without BT, I get rehooked pretty much immediately if they can't down the other survivor.
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BT and DS both revolve around tunneling/camping and if were gonna make two perks base then we really shouldn’t do perks that only solve one issue. If anything we should do Kindred and WGLF. As one gives very important information and the the other helps against slugging+bloodpoints. For killer, corrupt being base honestly wouldn’t be that bad of an idea. It would also help trap setting killers like Trapper and Hag. Pop is a bit controversial tho. As besides BBQ it’s possibly the best killer perk in the game but it shouldn’t be base as i’ve seen entire matches take a very different turn because of it.
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The math was a bit off yes but it's still 8 unhooks that can happen, that's still plenty of DS time. You're still giving Survivors a You Can't Touch Me weapon and that's the reason DS got changed, survivors will abuse those 20 seconds like they abused DS before. The big problem isn't the time it's the fact that you're putting killers in a lose lose scenario. Like i said, you're either going back for the hook or you're after someone else already, which by then it doesn't even matter if you Ds for 1 second or until the killer comes for you again.
If you're going back to the hook then idealy you'll chase the unhooker, but if there's no unhooker to be seen then only the unhooked Survivor is left. If they get DS base you're putting killer in a scenario where he either let them go or slugs cause he knows he can't pick up. Killer can't do a 21 second chase, in 20 seconds Survivors will find a safe loop and then it's not 20 seconds it's alot more cause chasing is an awfully long process for killers.
If someone was farmed then why are you punishing the killer by not being able to pick up the only survivor he could get? If someone gets FARMED it's not killers fault but your Mini DS punishes the killer for bad survivor plays.
You don't make perks part of the base game because you have to correct everything else to adjust the fact you made a Perk be a core feature of the game.
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A weaker form of Borrowed would be fine, I think all killer needs is for their base kick to do a much higher percentage of regression overtime.
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If the killer is chasing someone else then yes this mini DS does nothing which is fine.
If your going back to the hook then you'll probably take about 10 seconds getting there. Unless the survivor is just standing there for you then you'll need to also waste a few seconds looking for them and downing them. By this time mini DS would be pretty much done. Unless the killer is waiting right at the hook then the survivors timer should be at lowest half way done before they get downed, then the killer can kick a pallet or look for someone quickly before picking them.
Let's imagine quickly the killer when a survivor is unhooked:
- Camping the survivor: Immediately downs them and can see the unhooking survivor. Slugged survivor has 20 second DS
- Returning to the hook within 5 seconds: Should see both the unhooking and unhooked survivor. Your choice who you go for.
- Returning to the hook within 10 seconds: If the survivor is literally giving the killer a free down then the killer only has 10 seconds to waste. Kick a pallet or gen or look for survivor with flashlight.
If I really wanted to punish the killer I would've let that survivor give a free BT. It was one of the 4 perks in the discussion and I felt it would be too strong and unfair to killer.
I know you don't make perks as part of the base game but the discussion is about 4 perks being part of the base game lol I'm just giving my opinion on how I'd do it. Personally I feel like none of these changes would overall hurt the game and push it in a more fun way.
- Survivor doesn't immediately spawn on a gen and start working on it before you can reach them
- Survivor doesn't get forced out of the game earlier because they decided to play solo q instead of a 4 man swf.
Look unless your camping a hook then mini DS shouldn't effect you. The odd time where you down the unhooked survivor, even though you weren't camping, the timer should be nearly up by that time. Lastly just remember this is all if no survivor has BT which is extremely unlikely.
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You're still giving Survivors a You can't touch me weapon that they can use in two moments, after first unhook and second unhook, it's up to the survivor to pick where they want to use it and believe me they will use it cause it's guaranteed waste of time for killer, killers gets no control over downing someone since at some point that down can be erased, survivors will purpusefully come to killer knowing killer can't pick them up or else they'll waste more of killers time by hitting the DS. What's so hard to get that you are weaponizing DS again? DS should never be a weapon, should never be base. PEople would Run Unbreakable none stop since DS being base is broken and guarantess a free escape or killer slugs and you have Unbreakable and still can get away. BASE DS is HORRIBLE IDEA.
You can't punish a killer for doing their job, getting a down but oh wait i can't pick up because everyone has base DS, that's just broken. That's what DS was and that's why it was changed....The whole killer process already takes imense time since chasing is absolutly in survivors favor and you still want to give survivors 20 more seconds of FREE TIME, 0 PRESSURE.
20 secs is a quarter of a gen, if every survivor is in a different gen which they will cause everyone in the match knows base DS exists that means 1 guy with DS gives everyone else a quarter progress for each gen, that's 3 quarters of a gen done in total throughout the map. Then let's say killer has Pop, he still gotta waste time travelling to whatever gen and still kick it, that's 1 gen done in terms of progress by the time all this happens. That was a worthless Pop, a worthless chase.
You can't force killers into a situation where they can't progress when they haven't done anything wrong.
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You cannot make perks tied to a character base mechanics ^^
For survivors : it should be Kindred, and why not This is not happening and No One Left Behind.
For killers : Bitter Murmur and Monstruous Shrine.
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Basekit DS???
Why did you show me this terrible sight...
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The only perk i really want to be basekit is kindred (without the killer aura reading, keep that specific to the perk to let it stay unique.) Kindred is just so helpful, Soloq its painful without it.
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I really hope behaviour does make a few perks basekit for both sides so we can actually use the perks we want and not the perks we NEED to use to stand a chance of winning.
We would see alot more diverse perks than the usual DS, BT, IW for survivors and ruin, pop, corrupt for killers. It would change the stale meta
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I do like the idea of a weaker version of pop being basekit, cause kicking a gen does so little unless you have any perks attached.
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I think selfheal & unbreakable should be Basekit oh and unbreakable has unlimited uses, yes I said it fed up for killers slugging. They need to be punished for it & learn a new playstyle
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Weaponising DS? Lol come on mate that's impossible with this. Unbreakable takes more than 20 seconds to use so even if you are face camping they still don't have enough time to use it. The problem with old DS was that it lasted 60 seconds and you could still work on gens and do totems with it active.
Your taking the 20 seconds part to literally. Your treating it like a killer needs to wait a full 20 seconds for DS to run out, which only happens if they are face camping. So this whole quarter of a gen thing makes no sense. Your numbers are off every single time you talk about them. One of those 3 survivors needs to get the unhook and unless the killer is camping they won't be waiting out 20 seconds of a timer.
Sorry mate but all I'm hearing is someone who wants to tunnel a survivor off the unhook without any problems.
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Are you for real? Giving Survivors 20 second of imunity is fine? What do you think they will do with those 20 secs? Run away? Ofc not, they won't run away they will come to killer for killer to down them and pick them up and force the use of DS or killer slugs and they can counter that with Unbreakable or Soul Guard, if they have a free perk like you want then they will want to use it everytime, who doesn't want to use a free built in perk? DS as a perk is already strong even if the killer isn't tunneling cause for killers 60 seconds is alot. 20 seconds is still alot. Why do you think killers need very short chases? Cause there's a limit of time to where time spent chasing becomes completly advantageous to Survivors. Why do you think BHVR gave us Pyramid Head, Blight, Twins, Nemesis recently? they all have anti loop cause chasing needs to be short for killers otherwise chasing for too long is very detrimental. And you want to give survivors 20 sec imunity.
There's no need for killers to tunnel for Survivors to use DS, i can hook 1 guy, go after another, they make the rescue, i down the second guy, i hook the second guy and the first guy still has DS active and can come for the rescue because i can't hook him...Tell me where do i wanna tunnel? I don't i'm just telling you what happens when you give survivors a free weapon, which is what you wanna do.
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Noo not bloodwarden, the good thing of this perk is the surprise factor
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Your chasing argument also makes zero sense. Unless your camping their body after immediately downing them from the unhook then it's not going to be 20 seconds. If you get back to the hook within 5 seconds of the unhook then you should see the unhooking survivor, and if you don't want to tunnel you'll go for them. Chases are extremely important but they have nothing to do with camping the body of a survivor you were face camping for 20 seconds.
So your complaining that a survivor runs to you to take a free down, which leads to free slugging pressure? Ok. Even in the scenario you gave it doesn't make sense. The DS person is giving you a free down and a free reason to camp. People with current DS don't do this because it's dumb, so why would someone with a shorter timer do this? It makes zero sense.
I feel like everything I'm saying is being ignored when it comes to the simple basics of this.
- Unbreakable + mini DS doesn't work because Unbreakable cannot heal yourself before mini DS runs out. So even at the full 20 seconds you still can't use Unbreakable.
- 20 seconds at MAX IF your face-camping and hit the unhooked survivor instead of the unhooking survivor. Trying to use the 20 second argument for everything doesn't work if your not going to say "I'm face camping".
- Most players run BT anyway so it will make virtually no difference anyway.
- Follows the same rules as normal DS so it will be disabled the exact same way.
- This is a discussion asking about making perks potentially basekit. Did I create this discussion because I'm begging for a basekit DS? No. I'm only saying a way that I think they can implement it that would make a positive change to the game, same way as a mini Corrupt would. A change that I don't think would really harm the game in anyway.
The funny thing is if you always "respect" the potential DS a survivor has then you shouldn't be arguing about this. All I'm hearing is someone who always takes the risk of picking a recently unhooked survivor because they don't expect DS. Mini DS really only effects a face camping/tunnelling killers who take this DS risk. I cannot agree this is 20 seconds of immunity at all.
The best part is a mini DS would have 1 or 2 problems that would need changed from current DS but you've failed to mention them. You've just been stuck on this "20 seconds of immunity" that only works if a killer is face camping..
Sorry mate but I see no reason to continue this argument any further since your arguing points that don't make sense.
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Why do you keep talking about Camping and Tunneling? WHAT PART OF SURVIVORS WILL THROW THEMSELVES AT KILLER BECAUSE THEY CAN USE A BUILT IN DS don't you understand? You're giving survivors a weapon and they will abuse it regardless of what killer does. Killer doesn't need to Camp, killer doesn't need to tunnel for Survivors to use DS. They can force DS into play without the killer wanting to Camp and Tunnel.
What do Survivors with BT do? They throw themselves at you so that you don't hit someone else, especially if the unhooker is already injured or on death hook.
IF you're playing low level DbD that's not my problem but at high level people abuse every thing they can abuse. Giving them built in DS is just another tool to be abused.
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