What’s with content creators constantly speaking negatively about the new matchmaking?
I have two views with this.
1) When MMR was first tested, it was shaky. I’ve been here at every test and with each test, it feels as though it’s gotten better. The most recent test felt, by far, the best. My games felt rewarding and the BS that typically occurs in my matches was cut dramatically. Games were challenging but not too challenging. Things just felt…right? It’s hard to say. Ultimately my matches were more consistent.
2) I’ve seen more casual players like myself say (almost) nothing but good things about it. Similarly to me, they mention that it makes matches feel more even and fair. You know, the entire purpose of the system. It works.
So what’s the actual issue here? I’ve seen “concerns” raised by creators over things like “We don’t know what winning even IS”, “How do they even calculate this?” “Killers who are familiar with the games core mechanics will translate that to Killers they don’t play and wreck new Survivors”.
I’m not going to sit here and discredit their concerns, because they come from a logical line of thinking. However, this is my take on it.
Win condition: I don’t entirely care what the “conditions” are for “wins”. It’s likely that BHVR have been calculating these conditions for months and have obviously formulated a system that works, as shown in the recent test. I have confidence that they’ve managed to create a system that just works. Now if I’m wrong further down the line, then the naysayers were right. That’s fair. But as much as I criticise BHVR, I think they’ve done a great job with this.
Veteran Killer experience on less played Killers: The MMR would essentially take care of this itself. If you’re wrecking people at low MMR, then surely the system will correct itself. It wouldn’t be a permanent thing. You can’t see your MMR, so there’s no way to try and manipulate it to stay low. You don’t know the exact conditions to “win”, so there’s no easy way to manipulate that either. One way or another, the system will put you where you should be based on performance.
I know this has been talked about to death already, but I just think it’s weird that I see more of the general player base accepting MMR (not all, but a lot) and content creators freaking out over it.
Comments
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Because losing the ability to get win steaks by facing weaker survivors very often might hurt their viewership.
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Its their job and they don't want it to be stressful.
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MMR is terrible, this game is not made to be played with that level of seriousness. Even the sweatiest players sometimes wanna chill because this game gets stale really fast and that won't be possible.
So all mmr is gonna do is push away experienced players and create a giant wave of trolls that is not gonna play the game as it should to avoid getting higher mmr
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This ^^^
Just look how many 'funny moment compilations' from big streamers or in general are almost nothing but stuff that's pretty much all 'oh look how I am humiliating this other player'.
And now these players will easily be up against players that KNOW how to handle looping and juking, who know where the holes in the ground are and so forth.
So, yeah, streamers are upset that sbmm will likely take their beloved iWin button away.
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Because the system doesn't punish or reward you for getting better at the game, you will allways have tha same win ratio and you won't get any emblem that recognizes your mmr so there's no progression, just grind. Before at least you had the sense of progression because you were getting bigger win ratios, now you will have nothing and the game will get stale faster.
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The problem with this thing is that most of them (at least the most famous ones) are on the high-level percentage of this game, because they literally play this game every day for a living, which is why their knowledge of this game is far better than that of any other casual player. With that, new MMR would imply them having to constantly go against the same high-end players/characters. With killers it's not much of a problem, if it'll be just like the latest MMR test, where you'd basically sometimes get the sweat of the world and sometimes complete potatoes with killers you actually been maining for months and years. But with survivors it'll eventually come down to 3-4 same killers, which soon enough will become boring and will hurt possibility of making fun content. Besides, it's probably the biggest change BHVR made for the longest time, so people, who depend on this game quite literally, are in their right to be concerned about probability of something going to quite right.
Still, we'll have to wait and see how much of those concerns are actually valid. Hard to say for now.
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I don't know who you're watching but as Scott Jund put it, it's going to kill the variety for good players. So they're just gonna get sick of going against the same few things because at that point everyone is going all in for the win. Which, as someone that has played for years, I totally understand like when you just get a bunch of the same killer with the same build in a row it gets tiresome and boring. Stuff like that.
On the other hand, the majority of players likely aren't going to lose the variety so things should be pretty sweet for most players.
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I agree
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Raising legitimate concerns is not the same thing a speaking negatively (even if some are probably very negative). Considering that we know next to nothing of how the system is supposed to work and the general track record of BHVR, we can only assume that everything that can go wrong will go wrong.
And then there is the very well know fact that high level competitive DBD is a broken mess of a game. If the MMR work as intended, good players will be pushed toward the skill level where they belong and have miserable matches. Unless they intentionaly throw to lower their MMR, ruining games in the process and defeating the entire point of having a MMR in the first place.
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well, as it has been brought up before:
It says a lot that casual players and even competitive players that aim for winning through skill say that they had an overall good experience with the system, while it's people deadset on 'winning' (in this case meaning curbstomping weaker opponents through all means) that are complaining and being all doomsayer-ish.
Honestly? this speaks for a system that can recognize if you are intentionally throwing a game, so, purposefully lowering rank/garde might not be possible
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They want ez 4K cause their playerbase think they are so good and so strong. Also it's for the "show". Pubstomping noobs all day long is funnier to watch for their viewers.
Now that they will face good survivors, the won't be able to pubstomp them and they will average 2K. The viewers won't think they are god at the game anymore. :)
That is for killers but it will be the same for Survivors. Players like Ayrun that do youtube "funny" videos with low rank killers only won't be able to do it anymore unless he is using smurfs all the time.
Trolling a rank 8-12 killer at the end of each season is a thing, doing the same to a killer from your skill level is another.
SBMM will be the healthiest thing that has happened to the game for a very long time i guess; if it works properly.
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Because SBMM is an incentive to play the game in a competitive way, meaning there will be a higher amount of players running only meta perks for the sake of getting into a higher rank, making the game both more frustrating for survivors and killers.
I get their rants, I started in this game thinking it was a 4fun game and kept playing because most of the time I would be facing not too sweaty killers and survivors that are okay with "losing" games. Giving an official incentive to take this game as competitive will kill the good essence the game will have had previous to SBMM implementation but if it makes happy the regular player that joins in for a while and then quits after every dlc, it might keep the inflow of players going better than before since people won't be able to rant about matchmaking anymore, even if the game becomes dull to play the better you become.
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I'm pretty sure some of the survivor youtubers already just smurf in their videos because I play on the same servers as some of them and I'm not seeing these red rank killers that you can dumb tech 5 times in a row
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I dont watch those "youtubers" at all because they are all same Noob3 format, there are plenty of them. and this sbmm wont change anything but use their low rank account anyway to post such stupid videos.
i dont think it will be as strict as many of them say but it should prevent to pair say rank 1 killer with 8,16, 15 and 10 rank survivor because the waiting time is too long and actual ranking system is getting random ppl into the lobby just to not let them wait anymore.
Havent seen any longer queue anyway with the test one. I think it will be the very first good update this year :D
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You realize this already happens with the current system, right? When you get to red ranks the likelihood of seeing Spirits and Ruin+Undying Blights is way bigger than the chances of seeing a no slowdown Trapper. Just look how many posts you see daily complaining about seeing these killers everyday.
The only thing that can change that is reducing the disparity between killers and perks. Right now the difference between a Ruin+Undying Nurse and a Trapper with Brutal Strength is too big. Tone down the stronger killers and perks, and buff weaker ones. Reducing the difference between a solo team with 2 brown medkits and a full meta SWF with a map offering will also help with that. Hopefully SBMM will be the way to give data to the devs about these things.
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I mean, have you seen some of the meltdowns streamers have when they go against competent players?
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How terrible it must be for players who are "going all in for the win" to go up against others like them.
With that bit of sarcasm out of the way, how do you think casual players feel when that happens, and they're essentially a party clown for those other players?
You'd think that the streamers' reactions would invite some manner of introspection, maybe get them to play a little casually if they actually want to go up against people who are playing casually. Instead, they ######### on the system that's actually going to put them against people of equal skill (which reminds me, didn't Scott say that the new system wasn't actually going to work properly? Did he realize he was wrong?) because it's going to make their competitive gameplay style actually significant.
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because they think it's gonna be bad and are voicing their opinion.
just like other people in this forum.
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Do you trust bhvr to talk about what is skill?
We don't even know if we won in a match.
Sweatier play styles on both sides.
People don't like to lose in a videogame, most play games to win and have fun so if you have a main killer you can't play him as much.
Lack of variety of killers, if you are good let's say as survivor, you will face the same killers over and over with almost the exact same build.
Meanwhile we got perks like lullaby nerfed because a dev couldn't hit a skill check.
Game is not yet on perfect conditions, still a buggy mess.
Poor optimization, console as an example.
Unbalanced maps *cough* haddonfence, badham, rpd *cough*
These are a few reasons as to why content creators, streamers, youtubers do not like it, which imo is a fair thing.
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Youtubers is a different story from Streamers. I doubt that Youtubers smurf, but if you want to show a trick or tech, you just show the games where it worked.
E.g. said Youtuber makes a video with two games where they do a CJ-Tech. But nobody will ever know that they needed to play 50 games to have those two for the video.
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I think that's valid. A lot of people watch streamers because they are good at the game in that they win most of their games. You watch the likes of Zubat, Scott, Bronx, Otz, Umbra etc. Rare to see them lose.
Of course they are all lovely people too and that is also part of their attraction. I am not saying all the ones I mentioned are against MMR, or if they are it's for that reason. Just that a big part of the attraction to them is they are good at the game and win more often than lose. People give them money to play all the different killers because they usually win with them. I cannot think of any popular streamers who don't win regularly in Dbd. Most of the time they make it look effortless.
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Think they have solid reasoning.
The MMR system seems to be getting better with each test but it doesn't mean that it will work perfect all the time. Here's two examples:
- HillyBilly or Hillbilly: One of these spellings gave correct MMR games, the other made killers face rank 20s.
- 2 man swf: One of the tests I was playing with a friend and found that we always got paired with rank 15 - rank 20 teammates. Every single game for the 2 days it was on we kept getting teammates with less than 100 hours.
Unfortunately the chances of them releasing something without some sort of a bug is extremely unlikely. I just don't trust this system to always work properly.
Also if your a high level killer your going to be facing a lot more swf players, and a lot of high rank survivor will only see the same 5 killers repeatedly. Content creators play this game so much (it's their job) that they are either in the top % of survivor or killer so they are going to face this problem.
Also not knowing the win conditions is scary. Bearing in mind a lot of people believe behaviour don't understand this game properly at a high level, how can people trust them to decide a win vs a loss. How will it rank campers? How will it determine if a killer camping was necessary or not? Will it see their 4 hook win as a bad result or was it the only thing they could do.
No one will really know what the system is like till it's added and we've had a good week of testing. I've seen the reactions that high level players have had in other games when MMR is added and from what I've seen they hated it. I personally am not looking forward to it but I'll happily be proven wrong.
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Maybe because believe it or not but they have a horrible track record when it comes to fixing the game and the players that have played a long time know this so we are really doubtful they developed a working system
It boils down to this honestly everyone that hates it is a vet that knows how badly they ######### stuff up and everyone that supports it is pretty much a newer player that's to optimistic for there on good
When someone shows you over and over again they dont know what they are doing you should remember that and not forget it
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- Win streaks go away
- Having to bow to the meta in order to win, most content creators thrive on 'make my build!' or 'meme builds today!' and still walk away with an easy win, this will be much harder to do
- Losing clips that are vs clearly bad players. E.G. a x000 hr+ survivor spinning a 100 hr killer for 5+ melee attacks until the killer dcs/gives up.
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I am 99% sure this is not why they talk about it. At least not the big streamers / YT creators of Dbd. Just because they talk negative about it, doesn't mean they do it because of losing a personal benefit. I am also not fan of this new matchmaking.
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They probably dont trust 100% in BHVR like many others do, or simply dont liked the SBMM tests in the past making the game boring for them.
Also if you were really interested in why, you could watch a videos about SBMM and why they dont like it since many streamers put their reasoning into YT videos. But I guess its better to discuss why they dont like it here in forum echo chamber
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My advice is don't listen to content creators too much
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The only people that have to fear the sbmm are streamers and SWF death squads.
They fear it, because they won't get their easy win streaks and try to convince their viewers that the sbmm is bad, because they hope that the devs won't turn it on, if enough players are against it.
I can't wait for Tuesday and how some of those high skill players suddenly won't have as much skill as they think they have.
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I think top killer streamers with many viewers should be happy with new SBMM, because watching them having challenging games is way more fun than watching 4k every game. Streams is their job, they can handle having stressful games at their level. Not sure about survivor streamers though.
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But wouldn't the game becomes more stable, less stressful, and enjoyable to play? As a killer, you go against survivors whose more likely to match your skill and as survivors to have reliable teammate even when soloing?
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And as op pointed out, we don’t know how to manipulate the system..
“this game isn’t made to be played at that level of seriousness” - then why not play at the level of seriousness you want to play at?
the last test as OP stated, was awesome..
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I mean if you are new and used to mostly lose this might be better, if you have a lot of hours and used to have long winstreaks you can say bye bye to that. Oh and if you are new don't worry about getting better at the game, no matter if you improve your skills or not, you will allways get the same average results and you won't get rewarded if you actually get better.
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This right here. As a casual player myself I sweat far too often in this game. Now I don't want anyone to experience that, but if you're good enough and have played this game consistently enough to sustain a red rank, then either you won't sweat, or you're not as good as you think you are.
It'll be interesting to see just how good some of these streamers really are. If DBD does happen to lose a lot of players because of this, then maybe BHVR will finally start creating some new modes for this game. DBD needs new content in the way of new ideas, which is something it's player base has long been asking for.
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Some of them know they'll get their asses handed to them and don't like the thought of many people witnessing it lol
Of course other reasons too but that's the main one imo.
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Thing is, they're not that great if they can't compete against players of equal skill, and therein lies the problem. They're most likely better than average, sure, but they're not as good as they (or their viewers) think. That's why, with SBMM, they actually have to put in a lot of effort to eke out a tie (or even lose).
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I agree completely. I am very interested to see which of them can sustain their success rate when SBMM is here.
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Getting tired of people making up the belief that average-experienced players had a good time with SBMM at all.
It didn't happen.
Every test was responded with critically negative reviews.
A competitive scene just isn't good for an asymmetrical game, we have already been through this with Deathgarden.
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Didn't know i can decide my own mmr thanks for the info
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That isn’t true at all. Those win streaks offer a fun challenge to content creators that have over 5k hours and are simply better than the majority of the playerbase. Is there any evidence on Otz losing viewership after he lost his streak as Plague twice or any other time he lost?
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Everyone thinking its gonna be harder to win and get win streaks is for sure on some ######### cause that would be true if the system actually worked
But us vets know how they have handled everything else about the game and I'd bet my entire paycheck rn it doesn't work the way everyone praising it thinks it will so much optimize for a studio that has let us down over and over
Keep in mind people this is the same studio that has left last gen console unplayable for months and the same studio that updated the hud when everyone was against it
And the same studio that nerfed pig
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The issue isn't whether or not it's real, it's whether or not the streamers themselves are afraid of that. If they are, they're going to act on that fear, even if that means rallying against an improvement for the game.
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And what makes you think it's a improvement when we havent seen it? Blind hope?
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We've had a number of tests, all of which were a definite improvement (at least for me).
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A number of tests which were ran for 2 or 3 days a piece during which you couldn't have played more then 50 games unless you had no life we have no long term data on it at all
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How many trials would be sufficient for you to accept my opinion is based on experience, exactly? Because with your number, 50 trials per test, that's still, what, 200 trials? 300?
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Have you tried watching their videos where they explain why they don't like MMR to find out why?
"thE OnlY REaSOn coNTEnT CreAtoRS DonT LIKe MMr iS BecauSE TheY CAnT GEt winSTreAKS"
Pretty much every content creator I've seen say that they don't like MMR is because it's a poorly thought out system when it comes to DBD considering that all the top players are going to be forced to run the same best killers, add-ons and perks and it will kill the variety of this game. People will then be encouraged to lose on purpose so that they can have more variety, because there is literally an anti-incentive for good players to increase their MMR.
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Dude you gotta treat it like science we can't base anything just off your experience your 1 guy I can name 10 guys that had bad experiences we need the opinions of 1000s of people with 1000s of games played that is the only proper way to analyze if it's working or not
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I'm not asking you to. I made my subjective value statement (note that "better" is indeed subjective), based on my opinion. That's all. You're talking about something else entirely.
With that said, the devs also said that it was working, based on their data. Unless you want to tell me to disregard what the devs say and trust a bunch of randoms who may or may not have hidden motives.
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I just stated that we don’t know how to manipulate it.. you said “DBD is not meant to be taken seriously” I’m just saying don’t take it seriously then.
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I mean these are the same devs who said they would fix last gen console 3 months ago and still lags so sure go ahead and trust them I'm not trying to persuade you of anything I'm just saying your gonna be let down when its not as good as you think it will be tons of people will be
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