Why I am very skeptical about SBMM on the long term.(long post/rant)
First things first, the positives:
- killers being seperated, makes sense, should have been added years ago. Absolutely love the fact I can start playing more killers without having to use very sweaty addons, perks or tactics(camping/tunneling) just to keep up.
- Having players with 100 hours no longer being matched with players that have 1500 hours unless they have the skill to back that difference in playtime, amazing.
Sadly, those are the only 2 positives I see.
Now the issues:
- As far as we know, perks, addons, items and offerings are not taken into consideration. So it's safe to assume that a 2000 point Blight running Alchemist Ring, Blighted Crow, Undying, Ruin, Pop and Tinkerer will be treated equally as a 2000 point Blight running Blighted Rat, Plague Bile, Pop, BBQ, Thrilling Tremors and Enduring if they have the exact same match outcome. Even though everyone would agree that the second Blight is more skilled for getting the same feat. This is a problem.
- Survivors do not have seperate SBMM for killers. For a relatively large portion of the roster, this is fine as counterplay to those killers is quite similar. But lets not ignore that countering a killer is a skill on it's own. Lets say survivors have been facing 500 killers, all of them being Doctor(not realistic, but its a hypothetical), and they "won" 350 of those matches. Now they face a Huntress, who has faced 500 games aswell and "won" 350 of those matches. Now those survivors will face that Huntress, and the vast majority of strategies and skill they learned from playing against Doctor, will be completely useless and they will definitely lose. This is a problem(.
- Continuation of point 2: once survivors are skilled enough, they will never, EVER, play against new killers unless those killers are capable of reaching ungodly high MMR, or unless they play against friends. This is a problem.
- As far as we know, maps do not seem to be taken into consideration either. So lets take Deathslinger for example, does quite well Dead Dawg Saloon. On Fractured Cowshed? Quite a bad map for Deathslinger. This is a problem.
- I'll have to add this because everyone does, but ill combine it: solo survivors and most killers cannot breach a certain level with the current balancing. So after some point, there will only be SWF, Nurse, Spirit, Blight and maaaaaybe a Hag. Because solo survivors still dont have a single way of portraying information to their teammates like an SWF can(ping system, please, it would raise the cap of SWF only a tiny bit while closing the gap between solo's and SWF very significantly), and most killers literally cannot be buffed untill solo survivors have access to portraying information to teammates(yes, killer mains claiming your killer is being ignored or nerfed without reason, solo survivor is the reason why your killer isnt getting the changes it deserves).
So I have to ask, how is SBMM in any way, shape or form good enough to benefit the playerbase at large? Content creators would need to throw their matches for the sake of keeping content fun to watch without every match feeling like it's a tournament, or give up on the game. Players who have a ton of hours and can "win" consistently without relying on meta perks, will at one point be forced to run meta perks if they want to have any chance at having fun.
The fact that solo survivor, after 5 years, has by far recieved 0 buffs to be more comparable to SWF(perks arent buffs), while killers have instead been nerfed just to make sure solo survivors are capable of holding their own is less important than matchmaking(which, while it is a mess at times, it's still creating enjoyable games consistently without needing to throw games), is a problem.
I am extremely skeptical of SBMM working the way people are hoping it works, I am extremely skeptical of veterans of the game being able to enjoy the game as they currently are without consistantly needing to sweat. And for those reasons, if SBMM doesnt work the way people hope it works(after a month or so ofcourse, people do have to remember that it takes time for any ELO system to have an accurate personal portrayal, it will be utter chaos on release, even if it is a good system), I can see quite a large portion of the community leaving untill either severe long term balancing issues have been solved or untill the SBMM is improved to actually consider what is brought to a match. A survivor running DS, DH, BT and Prove Thyself, should by default be considered less skillful than a survivor running Deception, Q&Q, Dance With Me and Lithe achieving the same results. Just as a killer running Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer and Pop should be considered less skillful than a killer(assuming same killer being used ofcourse) running Thanatophobia, Sloppy Butcher, Enduring and BBQ achieving the same results. For, what should be, obvious reasons.
Comments
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- blight #1 is not more skilled than blight #2 if both of them are getting same amount of kills and hooks on average. If blight #1 or blight #2 were better than each other, Either of them would have a better winrate.
- Hypothetically, Imagine if Survivor 1 is good at countering Trapper but dies to every other killer. Suppose that survivor 2 is good at surviving every killer but always loses to Trapper. Do you think survivor 1 is better at the game compared to survivor 2? It should be obvious that how well a survivor plays is based off average of all killers. Not a specific killer. At the end of the day, you will still be unhooking, doing generators and doing a chase as survivor, so many of survivor skills translate to vsing all the killers. This is why single MMR is sufficient for survivor as the survivors objective does not change regardless of the killer they are facing.
- The third point is simply untrue. You will not start 0 MMR with one killer if your MMR is 2000 on another killer. I am sure that a percentage of your MMR is shared across all killers, otherwise a 3000 hour player would be face a 20 hour player every single time they play a new killer. I remember this being a problem the first time MMR was tested.
- A map can favor one side, however the survivor still needs to effective at winning on fracture cowshed. There will be many survivors that lose on fracture cowshed just like there will be many killers that lose on lery memorial institute. The map does not instantly decide the outcome of the match. This point is reflecting on game balance over MMR system being good or bad.
- Many of survivors skills are personal skills. SWF does not magically make survivors better at their personal skills. Doing a generator is not SWF skill. Looping the killer is not SWF skill. SWF is a substitute for game sense and teamplay/teamwork. A solo survivor can have good game sense and good teamwork without the need of SWF. Admittedly, It is easier to have good game sense and good teamwork as SWF, so your point is not invalid, however a SWF is not magically better than a solo player if they do not have personal skills to back it up.
"A survivor running DS, DH, BT and Prove Thyself, should by default be considered less skillful than a survivor running Deception, Q&Q, Dance With Me and Lithe achieving the same results."
See killer point 1. This point applies to survivor as well.
"and most killers literally cannot be buffed untill solo survivors have access to portraying information to teammates(yes, killer mains claiming your killer is being ignored or nerfed without reason, solo survivor is the reason why your killer isnt getting the changes it deserves)."
This is very good excuse for poor balancing. Not a very good compelling argument.
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- wrong, blight 1 got carried by perks and addons where blight 2 did not. If blight 1 were running the same build as blight 2, he would have worse statistics.
- Not even close to the point I was making. Fully irrelevant.
- I mean, all ELO's tend to start around 1000 points in general, and yes, seperating killers means that you will start at 1000 at all of them regardless of your ELO in any other killer(why else seperate them? Why not add the same system to survivors then?), there will be no ELO bleeding between killers."otherwise a 3000 hour player would be face a 20 hour player every single time they play a new killer. I remember this being a problem the first time MMR was tested." Yes, this is what happens when an MMR system is implemented. Every seperate killer will be treated as if you never played the game. This is not a problem, it is an inevitability that will fix itself within 2-4 weeks. Seperating killer ELO even if you are a 3000 hour player is THE POINT. If you are new at a killer, you would need to lean their power. If I have 5000 points on all killers and want to play the new killer but I am given 4000 points default on that killer because I am a good killer, it would he horrendous to learn his ability. Put him back at 1000 points and I have room to learn the ability in a short time and start climbing the ranks normally. Having ELO bleed over between killers is practically no different than the current matchmaking.
- again, irrelevant. The point is if you have only 3-4 maps that a killer does well on, and 14 that it doesnt do well on, that killer is going to be punished if they dont get the maps they need.
- Sigh, irrelevant again. The power in SWF is that they can communicate. Needing to cleanse a totem? A SWF can communicate that 1 person is cleansing all the totems, having 1 person check the map for totems. If they have 2 people cleansing totems, they can communicate where they have been. There will always be people available to do gens. In solo's, you can have all 4 people checking the map for totems with no one doing gens. So yes, SWF is "magically better" than solo because of time efficiency without needing any perks at all. A team of potatoes on comms tends to have better results than an average group full of solo players(unless those solo players happen to play with each other a lot, but that would make them closer to an SWF than solo's). So yes, at one point in MMR, all you're going to see is SWF, simply because of communication. Just as an example: For a solo survivor to have the same information of an SWF, they will need Kindred, Buckle Up, Bond, Empathy, Better Together and Windows of Oppertunity as a basekit.
And again, I will point out that survivor 1 would have performed worse if he ran the same build as survivor 2. Perks carried their ass. Survivor 1 would objectively perform worse than survivor 2 if they had the same build.
"This is very good excuse for poor balancing. Not a very good compelling argument."
I mean, this is literally the case. The fact that solo survivor is much, much worse than the worst killer, while SWF is much, much better than the best killer, is why killers cannot be balanced properly. Many killers rely on the fact that survivors do not have good communications. Which is why SWF destroys certain killers much more than others. Spirit and Nurse have trouble keeping up with the best SWF's, Myers steamrolls over a team full of solo's. Switch their roles, and Myers is incapable of getting any kills at all without camping with his stalk at 99, where Spirit and Nurse still steamroll over a team of solo's.
It might be a poor excuse that killers get gutted because of solo survivors, but it's exactly what is happening.
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"wrong, blight 1 got carried by perks and addons where blight 2 did not. If blight 1 were running the same build as blight 2, he would have worse statistics."
you have no proof of this. I am fairely certain that there are many good killer players and survivor players that do not run the most perfect cookie cutter stereotypical build and they do better than large percentage of population with their "inferior" build.
"again, irrelevant. The point is if you have only 3-4 maps that a killer does well on, and 14 that it doesnt do well on, that killer is going to be punished if they dont get the maps they need.
That means your bad at killer and you should play at lower MMR until your better at the 14 other maps. this will likely be reflected in your MMR scoring from a loss you incur on these maps.
"Sigh, irrelevant again. The power in SWF is that they can communicate. Needing to cleanse a totem? A SWF can communicate that 1 person is cleansing all the totems, having 1 person check the map for totems. If they have 2 people cleansing totems, they can communicate where they have been. There will always be people available to do gens. In solo's, you can have all 4 people checking the map for totems with no one doing gens. So yes, SWF is "magically better" than solo because of time efficiency without needing any perks at all. A team of potatoes on comms tends to have better results than an average group full of solo players(unless those solo players happen to play with each other a lot, but that would make them closer to an SWF than solo's). So yes, at one point in MMR, all you're going to see is SWF, simply because of communication. Just as an example: For a solo survivor to have the same information of an SWF, they will need Kindred, Buckle Up, Bond, Empathy, Better Together and Windows of Oppertunity as a basekit."
Being SWF does not automatically mean good. There are some games that I suspect that I playing vs SWF but survivor team is playing very poorly, far too altruistic and somewhat poor looping. SWF has potential to be stronger than solo at very very highest level but not everyone will play at that level.
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@Devil_hit11 is hands down the winner of this argument.
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I agree
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- this is not a problem and can easily be used against rank based matchmaking
- not a problem, can easily be used against rank based matchmaking
- can easily be applied to rank based matchmaking, blame game balance
- can easily be applied to rank based matchmaking, blame game balance
- can easily be applied to rank based matchmaking (4.1% of steam killers and 6.1% of steam survivors)
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again.
Blight 1 is running meta, Blight 2 isnt. If both were playing the exact same match and had the exact same results. Blight 1 can chain rushes consistently after every hit where blight 2 cant.
The only way you would be fully correct is this scenario: Blight 1 and 2 didnt get to use their addons and perks. Any other scenario, and Blight 2 is at a massive disadvantage compared to Blight 1, and needs more skill to compensate.
"I am fairely certain that there are many good killer players and survivor players that do not run the most perfect cookie cutter stereotypical build and they do better than large percentage of population with their "inferior" build." Agreed, and those players are definitely more skilled as they do not rely on their perks to do good.
"That means your bad at killer and you should play at lower MMR until your better at the 14 other maps. this will likely be reflected in your MMR scoring from a loss you incur on these maps."
No, that's simply false. Map balancing is far from accurate enough to say "you're not skilled enough at this rank" when any other killer you are just as good with does well on those maps. There is a reason why killer tierlists exist, and why half the roster has a consistent B-tier or lower, because b-tier and lower killers start depending on maps too.
You're only correct as of yesterday, because matchmaking was NOT facing survivors of equal skill. Deathslinger and Myers did alright because the survivors they faced were not equally skilled as you.
"Being SWF does not automatically mean good. There are some games that I suspect that I playing vs SWF but survivor team is playing very poorly, far too altruistic and somewhat poor looping."
Did I say good? No, I said EFFICIENT. And being more efficient makes you better by default. But being better doesnt mean you're good.
"SWF has potential to be stronger than solo at very very highest level but not everyone will play at that level."
Oh, why didnt I see that? Oh wait, I DID
- point 3: once survivors are skilled enough, they will never, EVER, play against new killers unless those killers are capable of reaching ungodly high MMR, or unless they play against friends.
- rant after the points I gave: Content creators would need to throw their matches for the sake of keeping content fun to watch without every match feeling like it's a tournament, or give up on the game. Players who have a ton of hours and can "win" consistently without relying on meta perks, will at one point be forced to run meta perks if they want to have any chance at having fun.
- conclusion: I am extremely skeptical of veterans of the game being able to enjoy the game as they currently are without consistantly needing to sweat
All points that are about high MMR.
I agree that for players below 1000 hours, SBMM will be a godsend. But get above 1000 hours, and it has a massive potential to become the most boring, most grindy kind of hell unless you are willing to throw games to prevent entering that hell.
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how so? where did he win? The only way you could consider his argument to have "won" is ignoring people who have 1k+ hours.
Love seeing creative builds on Otz? Like seeing his 50 win streaks? They will be much, much rarer from now on unless he starts the streak the moment he picks up the killer.
Love watching some players get very creative with their gameplay? That will become much rarer from now on.
Love playing casually yourself? Depending on your skill and how often you play, that will become an issue. Either you get skilled enough where you start facing opponents that force you to run meta perks, or you play once a week or so, at which point SBMM is a godsend since you would no longer face god tier opponents if you have potato teammates.
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That has been pretty much part of all my points, this game isnt ready for an SBMM yet. Why else did I ask "how is SBMM in any way, shape or form good enough to benefit the playerbase at large?"
Once maps, items, addons, perk combinations(I dont think any perk other than NOED and maybe Adrenaline on it's own are problematic, but combinations and some synergies are too unbalanced to deduce any skill), powers and the gap between solo survivor and SWF is more balanced, all my points will disappear.
The game isnt ready yet for a strict SBMM as the better you get, the less you want to play the game unless you love playing meta every game. Which isnt what SBMM should be about. SBMM should be about being matched with people who have equal skill. Being able to be carried by perks, maps or addons is kinda the issue there.
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"Blight 1 is running meta, Blight 2 isnt. If both were playing the exact same match and had the exact same results. Blight 1 can chain rushes consistently after every hit where blight 2 cant."
A blight who cannot land his blight rushed will not be top MMR. in fact he probably will not even be past 60% of population regardless of his perks. Perhaps his MMR will boosted from stomping weaker survivor players with the perk "Hex:Ruin".
For example suppose that highest possible MMR is 3000 and let's say that all survivors below 1800 lose to hex:ruin, The blight who is running a meta build might have true skill-level of 1500 but because of hex:ruin, he might climb to MMR 1900 out of 3000 from hex:ruin carrying him.
Its that at certain point, perks start to lose a large portion of effectiveness and at some point, your personal skill on that killer with killer power matters more than any load out will provide.
It is possible that two players that equally skilled at the killer find two different load outs that happen to bring same results, but generally speaking this is not very common because certain perks are simply better others especially at the highest level. This is why some perks are refer to as meta perks.
Few players will reach absolute highest level in first place, so most of the time, they will just hit their personal ELO rating ceiling with that killer.
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As I said with maps and SWF. It depends all on skill-level of the players in a SWF. some are efficient and difficult to beat, others are laughable. Some survivors are very good at using the strong maps, others are terrible. How much SWF and maps impact the game largely depends on the skill-level of the players in question.
"Love seeing creative builds on Otz? Like seeing his 50 win streaks?"
Otz is skilled killer player. He should play against his own skill-level, not against players lower than his skill-level. His win-streaks will be a lot more impressive now if even possible. MMR will be perfect for otz.
"Love playing casually yourself? Depending on your skill and how often you play, that will become an issue. Either you get skilled enough where you start facing opponents that force you to run meta perks, or you play once a week or so, at which point SBMM is a godsend since you would no longer face god tier opponents if you have potato teammates."
Playing casually will still be possible. It was possible in old system and it will still be possible in new system. Its just that you might have some forced losses if you are accidentally put into matches that are too difficult for your level. This happens in old system as well, however it was not as frequent as matchmaking was very random.
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I'm just gonna say two things: First, we know for a fact that they don't just take into account kills and escapes, they said it themselves. Which means you are clearly wrong, be ause you have eliminated everything else. Second, the point of the system isn't to be perfect, but to get sweaty players and new players in their own ecosystems.
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- If I have enough skill, have over 60% escape rate without using 4 2nd chance perks. I deserved to face a better opponents.
- If I dont have enough skill, and still have over 60% escape rate because I sweat and using all meta perk. Yes, I deserved to face a better opponents.
I dont see the problems of a game between "a great casual player" vs "a bad but try hard player". You can NOT put either of them vs a bad casual player.
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You think solo survivor is the reason Ghostface's reveal mechanic is so bad? I mean... It kind of makes sense, I guess? But then why not nerf Nurse, Spirit and Blight if it is THAT big of a deal?
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Food for thought: If something is made by Behaviour Interactive, it's probably worth being sceptical of.
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I honestly don't think most of those things really are a problem. Most things you've mentioned are either niche issues or don't really matter in the sense of what SSBM is meant to do.
SSBM is not a rating that is designed to be pushed like other rating systems (LoL for example). It's simply made so players will have a more balanced and fair match experience on average.
- How does this matter? The outcome of both of those blights matches will be, according to your own argument, similar. Even if there is a skill difference it doesn't matter since the outcome is the same. Again - this rating is not meant to be something you chase to improve.. it's just there without being visible to provide more equal match experiences.
- It's a niche problem and a temporary one at that too. Sooner or later they'll have enough experience vs every killer. Otherwise it remains a niche problem since they're not facing that killer often anyways.
- I don't really understand what you're trying to say here tbh. Do you mean "new killer" in the sense of new player or a newly released killer? I assume the latter... While this is probably true, this is an issue of the games balance, not SSBM but yes, this is one reason why this game is not ready for SSBM but then again I prefer that over the clusterfuck of match making that we had until now..
- Yes, map balance sucks but this is pretty much my first and my third point combined.
- This is an issue which is the result of super try harding in a game, which isn't anything bad but other games have similar issues, even League of Legends. There's a meta in every game and the higher you climb the more you'll see the meta being played. To stay with my LoL example - you'll more and more see the same champions and builds, jungle routes, strats, etc. You'll also have waaaaaaay longer queue times. It simply is an issue every game has in some way or another.
I absolutely agree that this system will have its flaws but I want to give it a try. The previous match making was just atrocious. Either you stomp those survivors like they're bots (who're even playing worse than the new tutorial bots) or you get annihilated by super sayajin gods of doom survivors who kamehameha the living hell out of you.
I rarely had really balanced games where I thought to myself "Well, that was really fun and a close call". Sure, there were games like that but not nearly enough.
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Love seeing creative builds on Otz? Like seeing his 50 win streaks? They will be much, much rarer from now on unless he starts the streak the moment he picks up the killer.
Otz being able to decimate 200 players is the exact reason for SBMMR. That means the game is absurdly screwed on matchmaking. That shouldn't be possible on ANY game.
Love watching some players get very creative with their gameplay? That will become much rarer from now on.
No it won't. If people play sub-optimally, then they're not going to progress in ranks and will be able to play these creative builds. In fact, this will actually make it easier to play sub-optimally because you're not randomly getting an Otz every other game.
Love playing casually yourself? Depending on your skill and how often you play, that will become an issue. Either you get skilled enough where you start facing opponents that force you to run meta perks, or you play once a week or so, at which point SBMM is a godsend since you would no longer face god tier opponents if you have potato teammates.
You don't have to ever run meta perks. You can play however you want and the game will adjust for it. This system actually allows playing sub-optimally to be viable. Before you couldn't because you didn't know if you were getting a Level 20 Brown killer, or a sweet-lord Red Rank 1 killer, from one game to the next.
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I said nothing about kills and escapes alone, i said "same results".
And sure, you'll seperate sweaty players from new players, but you could do that with the old system and be more strict around hours instead. That way, the only slip ups would be players making new accounts, which the new system also doesnt account for.
secondly, you're just gonna give good players all the sweat. I havent been able to play a casual match without facing SWF with stretched res as a killer. For the first time since I came back, I am actually considering quitting this game untill they fix it. Having their core playerbase leave because all they are forced to do is sweat, is deadly to a game.
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Thing is, the tryhard player would still consistently win games relying on their perks. Once those perks would get balanced, they would stop playing the game.
My point is, this game is not in a state for SBMM yet. A seperate ranked mode would have been better
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"Otz being able to decimate 200 players is the exact reason for SBMMR. That means the game is absurdly screwed on matchmaking. That shouldn't be possible on ANY game."
Or, yknow, a seperate matchmaking where SBMM is solely at play? Yknow, giving people who want to play sweaty a place to sweat, and people who want to play casual a place to play casual?
"No it won't. If people play sub-optimally, then they're not going to progress in ranks and will be able to play these creative builds. In fact, this will actually make it easier to play sub-optimally because you're not randomly getting an Otz every other game."
My point is more that the most viewed section of DBD are players with very high skill, who are capable of running very off-meta perks to keep up, that will disappear. People personally using it, was never my argument.
"You don't have to ever run meta perks. You can play however you want and the game will adjust for it. This system actually allows playing sub-optimally to be viable. Before you couldn't because you didn't know if you were getting a Level 20 Brown killer, or a sweet-lord Red Rank 1 killer, from one game to the next."
Right now, as a killer, I would be forced to go full meta just to play. I would need to throw hundreds of games just to get low enough, and once I do, I would be forced to run full meta quite soon, cus I am really good at that killer.
My last 10 games: 2 okay-ish game, 2 solo survivors in those games. 8 games with SWF and stretched res.
So at the cost of my fun, cost of bloodpoints among other things, I would have to throw games permanently with killers im good at. That's boring and not worth playing this game for. Meaning I would be forced to play other killers untill I reach that level and hope they fixed the issues that are going to be part of it.
AKA, the vanilla game isnt balanced enough for SWF against killers, nor is it for killers against solo's to rely on SBMM.
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Well, SBMM isnt exactly working for that, and it's not that niche of a thing, because almost every killer player I have talked to is facing similar issues. There is too many balancing issues to the point where people will play sweaty because they feel the need to do so, meaning most games you'll face are gonna have boring killers with boring builds and solo survivors will at one point stand no chance. Solo survivor is so horrendous that being matched with players of your own skill level is the worst idea ever, as you dont have any form of comms.
- matters, because people can get carried by perks, meaning they never learn skills they would need to learn if it ever gets balanced, at which point you can never actualy balance it, because you would kill a massive part of your playerbase(who got carried by their perks). Let alone that anyone playing against them would be bored out of their minds, because of how boring the effects of meta perks can be(especially on meta killers or SWF)
- but will that process be quick enough to keep people playing, or is it too frustrating, causing players to leave? I still havent faced enough Twins to consistently counterplay her, I havent faced enough Tricksters to consistently counterplay. I havent faced enough Hags to consistently counterplay her(let alone the fact that she has some problematic addons and campy mechanics that need solving too), and I have been playing this game since 2016. Hags are so rare, that I can counterplay them somewhat, but I've faced less than 100 hags in the past 5 years. I've faced thousands of spirits in the past year alone. The system wont really change that. Having a seperate gamemode, where SBMM rules supreme is fine, but there is no more casual now.
- I mean, the last matchmaking was kinda fine, the biggest issue was killers not having seperate matchmaking, but other than that, it had it's issues, but part of those issues did keep the game fun for a lot of people on the long term.
- Thing is, if maps are truly balanced towards survivors having comms and specific killers(aka a ping system and killer mapseeds, P L E A S E), then a lot of meta perks on survivors can get a decent nerf, same for meta killer perks. Right now they cant, because some killers are in absolute need of getting any advantage they can get, while good players on stronger killers take advantage of weaker killers by putting on the perks those killers need to just have a decent match(its why I considered facing old Billy to be boring, they all ran the exact same builds and used the same addons, the only time I had actual fun against old billy was billy's without any addons and slightly off-meta builds as they were actually good at destroying survivors where the others just ran meta with crack addons because it was easy, same issue I have with Blight at the moment, actually).
- Which is why, once again, splitting the queues up in casual and ranked would have been much better. People would expect to tryhard every single match in ranked, and tryhards would occur less often in casual(I mean, there would still be some players tryharding in casual games, but it would be much less often, as competitive people would actually play competitive).
I mean, the previous matchmaking wasnt perfect, but as far as I have noticed, I've had only 1 game I would consider decent. 90% of my killer matches on my main have been sweaty stretched res SWF's running 12 meta perks and coldwind farm maps(which, has by far the worst 2 loops in the game I have encountered yet, Rancid Abbatoir has a practical infinite that only Spirit and Nurse could combat easily, even with increased range addons on Doctor I had issues gaining distance there, there needs to be a breakable door ASAP, then you have those haybales that are the absolute worst loop I have seen in the game, especially since all other loops on Coldwind have been raised or lowered to give both sides near equal mindgameabilites, then you have these wretched haybales with a pallet that is stretched res heaven).
I have refused to play my mains casually ever since, even though those should be the killers I should be able to casually play.
Solo survivor is hell too, as killers start tunneling just out of prevention of sweaty SWF's, forcing people to run DS on every build. I am starting to refuse playing solo survivor too.
So all that's left, is 2-4 man SWF's to play casual at this point.
Right now, it's the worst hell. Map offerings are survivor sided already(1 survivor offering=1 killer offering in this case, any other offering requires at least 3 survivor offerings), then you have SWF's with stretched res. It's basically playing like you are in a tournament, without any of the tournament rules. There is a reason why tournaments ban certain things, because the game is not balanced for tournaments. Yet here we are, having a matchmaking system that kinda enforces that unless you want to throw games.
And sure, I have gathered 3k hours at this point, but I refuse to be placed against tournament level survivors if I am not playing in a tournament, and I refuse to throw hundreds of games in a row just to not have to sweat. I never camped someone to death unless it was a tournament, I was forced to camp 3 people to death just to slow the games down as hex totems spawned in front of survivors 70% of the time. I am not playing in a tournament, and unless certain perks or medkits get disabled at some point, I refuse to play untill it's fixed
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Well because they tryhard, its up to them.
Recently I play it more casual because I know if I lose, my reward is to have easier Killer. Had a game where a teammate asked me "why am I rank 4?"
I mean, look at my perks: Streetwise, Leader, Vigil, Prothyself. While other survivors use at least 3 2nd chance.
The game isnt for SBMM, but its needed to separate between casual mindset and tryhard one. Who doesnt care about winning usually lose more and they will derank. Opposite to tryhard who wants to win all the time.
I just cant understand why people want to have "casual easy game" while also want "winning" every match.
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Sorry, I'm not looking at this forum during the weekends so I'm slow to reply.
- I still don't see how this matters. There is no real ranking system which is supposed to be pushed. If the carried meta perk guy is at the same MMR as the good non meta perk player and they have similar match making results then .. what gives? Why do you care that guy A does actually not deserver to be at this MMR? It doesn't change the outcome of your match. Meta perks being meta is a balancing issue of the game, not an SSBM issue. It's true that SSBM probably makes the balancing issue more visible but that's a good thing imo so the devs MAY consider to rebalance some of those. Either way, meta perks will always exist and many players will always run those meta perks. Meta exists in every game.
- Again - I don't see the issue of SSBM here. You just said that you haven't faced many Killer X and Y before SSBM and SSBM won't change that, which is true. But what did SSBM do in that case then? If you're doing bad against Twins because you're not facing her that often, then SSBM actually will help you out there because when you're climbing the MMR high enough you'll basically only encounter Nurse, Spirit and Blight most of the time. Sure, there'll occasionally be another killer but that won't be enough to drop your MMR back to wood level again. This though is again a balancing issue which also gets enhanced by SSBM.
- Yes and no. I didn't feel like it was fine. For me 95% of my games were either a stomp fest or a getting stomped fest. No balanced games, just one side being extremely dominating. Neither way was really fun.
- True.
- The thing is, there is no ranked mode in DbD. I know, I know, people are taking it as if there was but there is not and I think the actually problem is that people don't realize that. DbD has as much of a ranked mode now (with SSBM) than it had before. MMR systems don't define unranked/ranked. MMR exists in almost every PvP game even in unranked/casual mode. The devs/marketing team did a poor job of communicating what SSBM is supposed to do and the name of SSBM was also probably poorly chosen, but still - we did NOT get a ranked mode with this patch.
I also played a few games as a killer and I've gotta admit that my games were an absolute clusterfuck BUT I still felt MMR is working in the background and calculating me. You see, I either stomped the survivors or I got absolutely demolished by them with only 1k. So I had either 4ks or just 1ks. What I've been noticing is that after I got demolished and only got 1k, my next match was kind of easy for me and I got a 4k. After that I got a harder match again. This kinda hints towards the fact that my MMR is highly fluctuating in the background matching me against a wide variety of different skills to see where I belong to. I think it'll average out after a few dozen of games and work properly. Or at least I hope so.
All I can say is that DbD is indeed not ready for a ranked mode but we didn't get one anyway. Tryhard sweat lords just need to understand that DbD is a casual game at best. Playing DbD competitively is a farce imo but ofc people who exist who enjoy playing even DbD competitively. That being said, those super try hard sweaty competitive SWF death squads will eventually end up in super high MMRs and you'll most likely never see them again (that is if SSBM is actually working correctly) which is a good thing.
The resulting issue of that is that those death squads will have queue times of 40+ minutes, which will probably make them loose on purpose to drop their MMR again. This should imo be punished, if noticed. Which could be the beginning of another issue of super good survivors stopping to play DbD because they can't find matches anymore and can't be bothered to wait for 40 minutes.
What the devs should to right now, in my opinion at least, is to heavily focus on balancing the game and probably even re-designing some aspects of it so SSBM doesn't cause too many side issues. Because as you've might noticed, most of your listed issues are balancing issues, not inherently SSBM issues. This games balance is just f*ed beyond believe, that's why there are so many issues occurring.
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