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I love how sbmm made tunneling more meta😎
As a survivor I understand why killers do it (1 in chase and 3 on gen means the killer usually loses even more with low mobility killers).
As a killer (when I get matches...some days I dont feel like waiting 15+ minutes) I will injure all of you as much as possible and tunnel the weak link as quickly as possible to make it a longer and fairer match.
What are your opinions? Do you see it more in both roles?
Edit: In theory it will force survivors to learn to loop use ds more and groups to use borrowed time.
Comments
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Knew it was you lol.
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SBMM makes the game more competitive (ironic, DBD considered) which creates far more scenarios across all MMR levels where the killer feels they have to tunnel if they want to win, or just do well, against good teams. It's also common among the lowest skill levels because it's incredibly effective against bad players.
People complain about gen regression perks and tunneling, rather than blaming the games failure to be balanced as a whole at a fundamental level, which causes a lot of the negativity that exists in game and the more frequent need for these things.
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The reality of SBMM means that i'm playing against top tier survivors. If BHVR wants me to play against top tier survivors, i'm going to play like they do in tournaments. I'm going to tunnel, camp, use NOED and otherwise play scummy. The reality is, if i don't play like that, i don't stand a chance.
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It's been the meta for quite some time, IMO
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SBMM made me change my win condition to having 4BBQ stack and letting everyone leave.
This way I have chill games and good amount of points.
Tunelling to climb mmr, I dont see the point. Dbd is a party game, not a competitive one.
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Just aiming for the desired outcome BHVR is aiming for, where I tunnel one person, then the gens get finished by M1 warriors after 5 or so minutes, and then I smack someone with NOED and camp them.. BRUTAL KILLER! So fun!
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When bhvr made the game they could not have predicted the end game play style. They assumed survivors would actually try to hide from the killer. However survivors learned it's perfectly safe to run to a gen and immediately start working. If the killer shows up you can get to a jungle gym before he gets to you. If you play the game the way they intended it's balanced but if you want to play to win, it's broken.
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I'd say it's been meta ever since the DS nerf.
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I don't get the proxy-camping-tunneling-off-hook meta that has developed after MMR. It was bad before, but now it's insane. That's all I get as survivor now. All those Killers are doing is making their games even more unfun by pushing themselves into high survivor ranks without having the skills to handle those high rank survivors. Let's face it, if you are proxy-camping-tunneling-off-hook (which is a really low-skill tactic that killers learn in ash/brown ranks), you aren't developing the killer skills needed to handle high level play.
I've been keeping track of the kills/escapes and it's actually worse for survivor than it was before MMR. The killers in my games are getting about a 75% kill rate now, where before it was closer to 60%.
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I'm a casual Solo survivor and though camping and tunneling was bad before, it's horrendous now. I log in to play a match, watch a Killer not even let a survivor 2 steps from the hook only to down them and rehook them and I log out.
What's the point? Is that even playing the game anymore?
My partner was sick of it so tried playing Killer. He has scarcely played it before, but had a bunch of BPs so leveled up the perks somewhat (no great perk selection, just original Killer perks on Spirit and a few purchased from the Shrine). And he faced survivors who were so obviously above his skill level it was ridiculous. I told him; "Hurrrrrr well apparently SBMM will adjust?".
6 games later and it was the same. A lot of the survivors were obvious 3-4 man SWF's. So I told him to equip Lightborn,NOED, and "start proxy camping and tunneling".
BHVR has got to look at stuff like this. Camping and tunneling make the game miserable for Solo survivors. Yet the existence of SWF's, smurfing, and an overall tolerance to bad manners towards Killers by these teams who think they're hot sh*t exacerbate it.
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What , you guys already complained about tunneling before MMR/SBMM, how is this system at fault when it was an issue that was already happening regardless?
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I've faced a few tunnelers today but also had a Spirit an Plague letting me go since well i'm just not the average brain dead toxic survivor, i'll play normally and not BM. Honestly can't complain much. I have more to complain about teammates tho.
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How many Threads do you want to open exactly? Like, we got that you dont like SBMM, this could have been done in one Thread, not in 10+ Threads.
Let alone that tunneling always was the easiest way to win a game for Killers.
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We Mikes have to stay together
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I swear I haven't yet to go against killer that doesn't tunnel or camp since sbmm before that I saw ir very rarely
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Only about 3 or 4 killers can put up a fight without playing like that at high sbmm...that is a bhvr not fixing the core issues not the players fault.
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I don't mind it. My teammates and I in solo queue have 4 outed plenty of killers who tried to tunnel and proxy. Good players will counter it just fine. If a killer wants to get 2 or 3 hooks the whole game, let them. And the killer should be able to use all resources to win. Nothing wrong with it.
On killer, I'm not going out of my way to tunnel and camp. But I'm also punishing mistakes. I'm going return to hook and confirm stages if a team waits too long to save. And if a survivor gets on a gen while injured with a healthy teammate, they're fair game.
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The only problem with this is if you balance gens more, tunneling is MORE effective because the killer is no longer punished for pushing out 1 or 2 survivors the whole match, and you know people would continue to abuse this, AND it would be an even better strat.
Matches won't get more fair. They'll just be even worse for the survivors.
There isn't really a way to fix this unless they need gen regression perks as a whole as a side effect, but even then, that ALSO encourages tunneling more because gen regression is less effective and gens are slower.
The only way to fix this is to punish killers for choosing to tunnel by reducing their scores/MMR for doing so, which I don't think is really fair either, as it is an effective strat and is also trying to force the players into a certain play style.
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Thanks for the support...nothing I post has been a lie🤔.
And that is false in the sbmm survey post I distinctly said I like sbmm as a survivor but if you want to twist my words to fit your narrative go ahead.🤘
My case is tunneling is more prevalent (rightly so) to compete at higher sbmm and will continue to be.
Post edited by latinfla4 on0 -
That is one thing the Friday the 13th game had correct...if you were not prepared for Jason you were dead...you learned to fear the killer.
You had to gather resources and work as a team to keep each other alive because 1 vs 1 you would not survive most of the time.
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Imagine what that game could have been if not for the lawsuit
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"always has been"
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When that happens I will switch to another killer until I cant and then play survivor until i cant and then leave the game until the grade reset and start again (unless I get bored...plenty of multiplayer games out there not to mention gamepass🤣)
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I feel bad for your friend since sbmm places you against higher levels while it "adjusts"....you need to get stomped to play later.
Can you imagine any other business that treated its paying customers that way? You have to suffer before you can use our service?
Bhvr is going to take their time collecting data and then maybe fixing something.🤔
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Yeah we would have had a good alternative but chin up there are more horror games coming out and if not more killers to be put in dbd.
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Survivors need to learn how to safely unhook and go for protection hits, body blocking, etc. to save teammates dead on hook. Also the survivor who is dead on hook needs to learn how to get lost ASAP.
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What if bhvr gave incentives to go after someone else such as extra bp if the next hit is not the unhooked survivor or something along those lines. I am more of a bp chaser than a killer so it would entice others like me to do so.
I understand that there are some killers out there that won't bother about this and continue to tunnel but bhvr cannot fully fix this as they tried before but survivors abused it, I can't remember what they tried though because it was a while ago lol.
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Yoooo for real! That game was decently balanced imo. Can't really say there was any issues either that were similar to what DBD has with rushing out gens. As far as I remember you couldn't really rush your objectives as the survivors there. I also liked how while you scavenged to find the things you needed to escape you'd find other little things to help you survive, like things to stab Jason with once he grabbed you (essentially a DS) and so long as you kept finding the items you can keep doing it. Good times.
Also you ain't wrong about fearing Jason in that one. Compared to DBD the dynamic is ridiculously skewed in the opposite direction where the killer ends up fearing the survivors =/
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It's fair strategy. It's up to survivors to avoid the attention and escape chases. Unless the killer is exerting complete control over the map and survivors, I expect killer to take whatever Advantage they can within the little time they have to gain the upper hand.
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It's almost like it would be healthy for the game to, i dunno, fix both? Imagine a world where tunneling and/or camping weren't effective strategies (not a bloodpoint reduction, not an xp punishment, not an mmr punishment, but systemically a bad choice to win the game), and killers didn't lose 3 gens in 2 minutes every game.
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It emphasizes tryharding and winning at any cost, so leaving your mates behind to escape and tunnel and camp every game is becoming more regular than before.
Like I say everyday on the forum :
Want a SBMM ? Well, okay, but give an Unranked Matchmaking button.
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They paused hook progression for survivors while the killer was near the hook which resulted in survivors looping to and around hooks. That's the only thing I know that survivors ended up abusing.
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Assuming half the people that have been sharing their MMR experience are not exaggerating certain stats...I feel bad for those unhappy with the current game. I have not had to tunnel/camp since MMR came out. I didn't mention slugging because if I see another survivor when I down someone I am coming for them (Just a too effective strat). I have played quite of bit of survivor and have had no tunneling/camping killers (not that they needed too) they just slaughter my solo group with ease.
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Yeah, some form of incentive would help nudge killers into a preferred play style without punishing them for NOT choosing to go for that play style. Regardless, I don't think it would change anything up too much, though. 😕 MAYBE a reduction of a smaller amount of points for hitting the person after a certain time frame after the unhook, but it does not negatively impact your emblems? That way it is also more of a nudge, but let's say you only lose 250-500 points. It really isn't much! But if you KEEP doing it in a match, then it'll start to add up.
But again, I just don't like the idea of punishing the killer for making the potentially correct play. It is also unfair, so I don't really like my own idea.
A form of punishment is the only way I can really imagine getting killers not to tunnel, though. Hopefully we can think of something else. Maybe more points for going after the unhooker instead?? That would probably work! First hit to the unhooker AFTER the unhook is like 500 extra points on the hit.
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But HOW do we fix that is the question? I can't really think of anything to make not tunneling 1-2 people per match to heavily apply pressure to them, forcing the two non-hooked people off gens to try to protect, giving you even MORE pressure.
Maybe something where going after the unhooker instead or another survivor gives you a small buff or something? Maybe a small chase buff that could be called "Opportunist". Giving you a small buff to the next pallet they drop either reducing your stun a little or breaking the pallet a little faster? Not entirely sure.
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yeah. and sadly I can't get 4 stacks sometimes. real depressing
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The issue is the 8k cap. It wouldn't be worth the extra points past maybe playing nice in the beginning to confirm whether or not the survivors are good.
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Give it its own hidden category. One that doesn't attribute to your emblems or MMR or anything. You know you'll get the points when you see in the top right "Opportunist - 500".
The survivor counterpart could be if the unhooking survivor takes the hit, they also receive the extra points, similar to distraction or protection. In this case, it could be called "Defender" or "Altruist" or something. That way both parties have a reason to be the one in chase after an unhook.
This not only helps with the in-game play styles, but ALSO with the BP grind. It's an overall win-win in all regards.
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Instead of it JUST being the hit, it could also be chasing for at least 10 seconds and both parties get the points, even if the killer doesn't hit them. That way it isn't an incentive to just immediately take the hit and go back to tunneling. Both parties will still get the 500 points, as long as the chase lasts for 10 seconds.
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Then you guys, as survivors, are making mistakes. Balls in your court. Tunneling off the hook is 100% one of the best ways to win if the survivors don't properly counter it.
"you aren't developing the killer skills needed to handle high level play." Tell me you aren't a high level killer without telling me you're not a high level killer.
If survivors SEE someone just camping the hook, they go finish gens. They don't just sit behind a rock crouched waiting for the killer to maybe look around a little too far from the hook. I run Kindred 100% of my games. If I see a killer camping I go, "Well that sucks for that guy but I get two free gens out of it."
As a killer, tunneling out a weak link with enough gens left in the game, basically just wins you the game outright. Stop pretending like a killer is toxic for doing what they need to do to win. Like it or not, tunneling someone out of the game is one of those best ways. Camping a hook is just bad all around, it loses you the game instantly against any decent survivor. Proxy camping however, or tunneling, wins you more games than it loses assuming you know which survivors to target and do it properly.
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Taking someone out early is efficient, just like pumping gens separately. I angle for protecting a endgame 3gen and/or removing one survivor quickly. Every game I do not ends with gens completed too fast and everyone on second hook.
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Every person is responsible for decisions and their actions. Grow up and take resposibility.
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Actually, it's the Killer's making the mistakes. They're just pushing themselves into a higher MMR with a low-skill strategy that will just leave them frustrated when it no longer works and they don't have the skills to survive at the higher levels.
Instead, they should be learning how to play without proxy-tunneling and face-camping, so when they do get to high levels, they'll have the skills they need to play at that level.
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SBMM isn't causing all the camping or tunneling. That is just how red ranks play cause they want to safety to keep their rank. And all ranks started at Ash IV this round, so the tunnelers can easily be surmised as previous red ranks. Rank meant absolutely nothing before and still doesn't except for bonus BP. It's still an hours played rank system and not a skilled rank system yet.
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Any ideas on how to do that?🙂
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If you think Proxy Tunneling is not optimal depending on situation. You simply don't play killer well.
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Do you play killer at high levels? What strategies do you use?😃
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He doesn't. Everything he's said in this thread shows he doesn't
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You didn't read what I said. Proxy-tunneling is a skill that Killers learn when they first start the game. They learn it before they learn to use their own power properly. It's basically a crutch that Killers use and can lead to Killers not learning other more difficult skills that allows them to compete in higher ranks.
I mean, why learn how play against higher level survivors when you can use a no-effort skill that works on low level and mid level survivors. You're basically avoiding chases when you proxy-tunnel-off-hook, so all those chase skills you need against higher level survivors isn't there.
In the end, you are screwing yourself because you're elevating your level way beyond what it really is using a play-crutch. A killer is going to be very frustrated when MMR boosts them. Which is a lot of what I'm seeing now on the forums and with streamers.
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So proxy camping is never any good?🤔
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