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I genuinely don't understand why killers are playing like this
I'm sure this is not a new experience for many people since SBMM was implemented, but there have been a drastic increase in the amount of face camping and genuine tunneling killers I have gotten. SWF or solo queue, it really seems like every game. Before SBMM, it was once in every 10 games, it really wasn't that big of a deal to me. Now, it is literally every single game. I've started taking screenshots and posting them in my discord when I get face camped. It doesn't matter what perks I run. It doesn't matter what I do. Decisive strike, borrowed time, unbreakable, soul guard, dead hard, sprint burst, flashlight, no flashlight, medkit, toolbox. It genuinely does not matter: someone on my team or myself gets face camped to death or tunneled to death. I mean genuine tunneling. Like, going out of your way to not hit other survivors tunneling. Waiting out for BT tunneling. It's not even like these killers are getting "genrushed", they are genuinely face camping at 5 or 4 gens left. What is the big deal? I play killer a LOT, I have probably 2,000 matches on Huntress. I have NEVER played like this. Then they complain about their queue times going up. Do you understand that you are the problem? People complaining are the ones contributing to the issue. No one wants to play survivor when they get face camped every game. No one wants to play survivor when they get tunneled at 5 generators for no reason. My friends and I have contemplated just straight up quitting the game when we've all dedicated 2k+ hours into it. The better question is: why have the devs not addressed it? There's NO way they don't know what's going on. There's NO way they haven't been reading forum posts. I want answers because this is absolutely ridiculous. This game is rapidly going downhill because 50% of the playerbase wants to play like animals. Playing to win =/= playing like a jackass.
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2 specific reasons I can think of here.
1) PInhead being the new killer his perks and kit are better designed to fight a 3v1 than they are a 4v1. It had led to many people tunnel a single person out in a game where they are pinhead or to abuse the perks to get rid of as many survivors as quickly as possible (thx to the new gen blocking perk [Deadlock that has drastically cut down gen rushing). It's encouraging, in my opinion, a bad style of gameplay that makes the killers appear sweaty as overweight trolls seeping in their parents basement. This in turn has made survivor go more, what i like to call, "offend the killer". Emoting, body blocking, holding game hostage for no reason (seriously seen many survivors that have no teammates on hooks just camp around 99% doors refusing to open them lately.). Tit for tat.
2) MMR and SBMM encourages camping and tunneling. If it is in any way reading off the pip system as long as a killer gets brutal they have safety pipped and they're MMR won't drop drastically, if they get ruthless i imagine it grows as that is considered a win. Climbing quickly means lower skilled killers are getting frustrated hitting high MMR survivors and the only applicable way they know to deal with it is to camp. Honestly to cure this I think the EGC needs to be shorter and doors need to regress when left alone.
Unfortunately I think BHVR is proud of the MMR/SBMM system and all the work they spent on it so I wouldn't expect to see any drastic changes soon. Maybe when the community revolts, or when they actually see a dip in sales/player base.
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Can we get some paragraphs in there?
Survivors are to blame for not punishing camping imo. They reward it and people will keep playing that way.
Also camping/tunneling is sometimes neccessary and it's not done to provoke others or something like that. I know it can be frustrating tho.
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Advantages of camping need to be removed from the game.
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Another post about survivors complaining in a video game.
Does it ever stop?
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Okay. The survivors successfully punish the camper, do the gens, and 2-3 get out. The 1-2 on the hooks still are forced to a part of nonparticipation - if you or anyone says that's okay, that person should uninstall for the health of the game.
Nothing will change if it's viewed as the survivor's job to 'punish' camping, because the killers who do it aren't looking for good games. It's on the devs to address toxic behaviours in their game's community, and refusing to do so in lieu of passing the buck to the victims is pretty low.
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Telling us to change our playstyles hurts the game. And what we are doing isn't toxic, the survivors who complain about it are the ones who are toxic.
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Do better. In your trials, in your bait, and in your sardonia.
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I have actually done fantastic on how I play my trials. I don't need a mere one person on a forum to tell me how to play the game.
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I felt like I seen this post a second time...
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you have
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Glad to know I'm not crazy.
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MMR means compétition and getting better ranks
With no objective infos survivors just gotta escape and killers kill
So they do just about that
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Noticed the increase in low skill killers that camp/tunnel/slug at 5 gens, too. Particularly Blight and Nurse players in my most recent experience. They really want to full man slug, 1-hook or tunnel at the start of a match as if there was a million dollars on the line.
Made me stop playing survivor. As killer I keep getting a mixed bag. Some matches are literally over in 3 minutes if I face boring survivors who just want to speedrun and do gens even while injured even though I refuse to camp/tunnel/slug giving them enough time to play a fun match - other matches are long, fun and interactive if people use the time I give to actually interact with each other (via healing for instance) and do totems, chests etc.
I go out of my way to split hooks as much as possible so everyone gets a chance to actually play the game.
Some people start meme-ing with me if they notice I don't go full tryhard so I usually end up just collecting 2 hooks on everyone (without farming. I want legit chases afterall) and letting them (or at least some of them) go afterwards.
Chases are the fun part so I want to have as many of them as possible. Couldn't care less about kills.
Just got nearly maxed out points with 1 kill and a pip as well. Me and the remaining survivors bullied a zombie at the gate then they left and we all had a good time.
Meanwhile there's killers going for mighty impressive 1-hook kills at 5 gens like they gained anything from it.
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Tunnelers are trying to win. Face campers are trying to derank. Ez.
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Camping/tunneling at 0-1 gens being done is not necessary. Camping /tunneling at 4-5 gens being done I can understand.
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It's fine, any time I get a sweaty killer I peace out early from the game and move on. I've deranked so far down the line I'm now getting newer players or not very good players, run meme builds, save my teammates and have fun. I'd recommend anyone else follows suit.
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I have seen this topic a many of times on the forum rarely do I feel the need to respond. I am an 80/20 survivor/killer. Survivors want to survive and killers want to kill, what happens between those two points is the game.
I have seen killers camp and tunnel despite BT and DS at gens 0-5. I have had killers do a slugfest and succeed due to no one running Unbreakable. The mechanics of the game plus the Community’s temperance for other gamers (killers towards survivors and survivors towards other survivors) is just toxic. I played all day half as killer half as survivor and as a killer I did do some camping and tunneling as necessary (scratch marks around hook, survivors doing flashlight saves poorly and staying near hooks, and just bad toxic survivor behavior as I’m not the best killer). Some games I played more aggressively and others I was more friendly even farmed when a survivor dc’d after being chased for my first hook.
My point is that the killing from killers is to be expected. What I don’t expect is for survivors to:
- Leave the last survivor who has been chased the whole match when all gens are done. Triggering the Endgame and people having hooks to spare is just gamenship. Especially when all 4 survivors are in good standing. (I have even 99% the door and waved to other survivors to help w the hook save running BT and cannot get survivors to help and they have a hook to spare).
- Leave when everyone has gotten only one hook and one survivor is on the hook. What is the rush here? Again triggering the Endgame super early for no reason.
- A survivor dies and then tells the last teammate where the other survivor is when they are being chased at the end of the game. Despite the hiding survivor saving both teammates multiple times and healing them off hook and doing gens. And leading the killer to the other survivors hiding spot. (This happened to me and my friend. Kid you not saved one of them from NOED and they snitched on me in the next match).
- Any survivor disconnecting from the match before the first hook is made hoses the whole team.
- Intentionally running BOND and running the killer to a gen that is almost done during a chase. I’ve seen this more times then I can count. Or running the killer to the areas where gens aren’t done.
- Hiding in closets well after BBQ&CHILI have went away.
- Urban Evasion around the map refuse to do gens or hook saves or heal. I’ve seen this more times then I can count.
You throw all of that from other survivors on top of a killer who wants to camp or tunnel and the whole game is just worthless. I can swallow a horrible killer (even a face camping Bubba) BUT survivors who ruin the game INTENTIONALLY for other survivors are way worse and there needs to be a way to report them.
I’ve said all of that to say a survivor can do gens while the killer face camps and tunnels but if the other 2 remaining survivors are throwing the game in anyway as stated above in 4-7 then “getting good” is NOT going to help that survivor to survive. As a killer I 100% understand that my taking down of all 4 survivors depends on at least 2 of them being absolutely hapless because a 4 SWF who are altruistic, have good map presence and awareness, plus communication means they are escaping or at the very least I’m not getting a 4K. Survivors are depending on other survivors doing what they need to do 100% of the time and killers are depending on themselves to do what they need to do to kill 100%. It’s easier depending on yourself then it is depending on 3 other people you can barely communicate.
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Campers actually rank up faster since rank is determined by kills.
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Camping happens to secure the kill.
Tunneling happens to try to remove a player from the game quickly.
It's really not rocket science. Survivors just need to learn that the killer will play how they want no matter how much they whine about it.
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Oh, yes, definitely. I was more talking about those people who face camp the first person they catch and refuse to leave. Proper camping is very strong.
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Well I don't camp and I don't tunnel but since SBMM came in, I sometimes wish I did.
Having 4 decent survivors as enemies who know what gens are is f*ing stressful mate.
As soon as I blink 2 gens are already done along with undying and ruin being gone. I mean seriously... In my last 5 matches all gens where done within 5-6 minutes. I can see why many killers want one survivor out asap but camping doesn't help at all anyways. If I'd have camped a survivor I wouldn't have gotten more than 1 kill.
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You have experienced face campers. I have experienced bully squads. One can be explained by the other. After all, we´re all humans playing a game. So at some point, people might get triggered and play in a scummy way.
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face camping is part of the game
stop crying about certain tactics just because they annoy u
camping is as valid as not camping
camping counters gen rush also
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I do not agree with 1.
I think Pinhead is a good killer in the 4 vs 1 simply because you have your box and his perks. When you run him with only his baseline than you got Scourge Hooks which you want to apply to all survivor and Plaything. Both perks get their best value when you apply them to many survivors and even more in combination.
Think about it: You end your first chase and pin a survivor to a Scourge Hook which also applies Plaything. This survivor is now pretty useless. He is mangled and has to heal because he no longer hears your heartbeat to evade you. After healing he is slowed down quiet a bit.
Meanwhile another survivor has to carry the box to delay the chainhunt. Leaving out only 2 to do generators normaly, 1 of them should be chased by you. As such only one survivor can work on a generator normaly. After your second down this accelerates even more and this is not considering you getting your own box.
Tunneling one survivor out would basicly deny me all value from my Hex: Plaything and Scourge Hooks: Gift of Pain.
Juggeling if far more effective and also more fun for the survivors.
With number 2 I agree. I think that deranking in the SBMM should go faster than ranking up and safety pips should be reduced. Killers have to be punished for camping a survivor to death just to get 1 kill. This however can still be implemented. I think BHVR qill monitor their system and tweak it here and there maybe even without us knowing.
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Toxicity pushes people to play sweatier.
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Game isn't going downhill.
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Well you're very productive to this conversation.
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I honestly have no problems with killers camping, tunneling, or face camping. What I have noticed from my experiences is that many survivors don't want to help the guy that is on the hook. Do as many gens as possible before the person on the hook hits stage 2, then trade with them. Everyone can escape using this strategy. And if the killer is tunneling, them take hits and body block to help the survivor escape. It isn't that hard.
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So you admit you are part of the demographic doing this. Got it. Your opinion on this thread genuinely does not matter if you openly admit to face camping and/or tunneling and think it’s completely justified. Please get off of my thread
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agreed. tunneling and camping are necessary sometimes. camping at endgame to secure kill. tunneling mid to late game to catch up. tho I will agree with the poster that camping and tunneling early game is not necessary and a little crappy. but all saying do what you want.
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I haven't noticed much of a change. I've been having matches like this since before the anniversary event.
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I've been sick the past few days so my comments might be a little off kilter. Pinhead kit and perks are optimized in a 3v1. The most common occurrence in a 4v1 against Pinhead with his base perks and base kit would result in 1 survivor being chased, 2 doing gens, and 1 finding/solving lament configuration. This is by no means detrimental to Pinhead, I think he can and does play well in this situation.
Compare it to his strength in a 3v1 though. In a 3v1 you would optimally have 1 in chase, 1 on gen, 1 finding/solving box. Plaything becomes much stronger by forcing a totem hunt or stay oblivious. Deadlock massively slows down remaining gens if the 2 survivors decided to split and ignore box. Scourge hooks also punish 3 survivors exponentially harder than 4.
In short, trying to clarify my first response. Pinhead kit appears, in my opinion, optimized for a 3v1. For newer killer players that decided to buy Pinhead it would be a noticeable difference how their experience becomes a lot easier in 3v1 over 4v1. This will encourage the bad gameplay of tunnel 1 person out and always excel easily with an optimized killer.
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Your definition of toxic is clearly very wide
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So how would you people punish camping/tunneling?
I don't see any way to make it work except survivors punishing it together.
Just don't suggest things that were tried before in the past and abused.
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Don't let killers pip off of camping and tunneling. It's literally that simple. If you are camping and tunneling the ENTIRE match, you shouldn't be allowed to pip/gain MMR from it. The new SBMM system rewards that playstyle because a 4k=win=more MMR. However, when you get to the higher MMR players, they will legit just sit on generators and not give a crap about the hooked survivor. You will lose that game and get frustrated. If you play in a non-scummy way (get more than 4 hooks total) and get a 4k, you deserve to pip and increase your MMR because you are legitimately winning your match. People who face camp and tunnel KNOW what they are doing is messed up, they just don't care. It isn't even fun for the killer to do that stuff because they just sit in the same spot the entire match until someone dies.
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While I agree that piping with killers is alot easier than solo q, I am not sure piping is that important since sbmm.
You said it yourself, it is all kills/escapes now to boost your mmr.
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Will tell you. First i'm not a killer main. I'm a good killer but not awesome. I'm a really top survivor though.
When i play killer, if i play fair, i got gen rushed, spammed with flashlight/"insta" heal... and at the end, when i have one kill only they call me noob :)
So now i play terribly, i come back on saves, down again the unhooked survivor, slug to get another one down etc... Most of survivors are toxic and they do this in group.
They are so ######### that they go with 2 flashlights, 2 insta-heal; blinding you at every pallets. What do you expect when the majority of the community behave like this ?
Community is toxic BUT BHVR is also responsible for all this. Why is it still possible to bring so many items and broken same perks for all the survivors in high MMR ?
I mean, facing 4 good loopers with DS, BT, DH, really ? And this with the standard map layout with 12 pallets, 5 windows, 2 semi-infinite loops.
You see, BHVR does nothing about it and it looks like they never will.
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Like Scott says, I think the community is fault for this behavior. More and more are playing unfair or sweaty because they want to increase the MMR. A value that you can't even see. It really got worse, but nobody cares. My conclusion is that I play less. Also because of the rank reset. DC'ing or self sacrifice too. If you can't lose a pip it's like a big welcome gate ...
My thoughts 😀
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@scenekidtrash what Rank were you before SBMM? I’m assuming Red or at the very least hovering between high purple to low red (6-3)?
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Dude, things goes in both ways, don't think that it's only killer's fault... Since they have implemented the new mm, I don't even remember the last time that I had a chill match without toxic survivors carried by the usual meta build and BNP, instaheal and keys...
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Ye, as i have said, i play both side and i haven't seen so many items since SBMM is out. In every trial, all survivors are bringing an item. I often see 2 flashlights and sometimes 2 medkits full equipped with purple or rose addons.
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Killers who camp probably dont care about piping...by depiping them you are just sending down to more inexperienced survivors to keep the same cycle going🤔
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Before i go on a rant i do have to say "face" camping is often caused by the survivors themselves. The easiest possible games you can have as a killer is vs altruistic lemmings. Like someone will go for a save immediatly, obviously, trade, then the survivor that just got unhooked will "loop" around the tile near the hook, instead of getting distance, near a gen with ruin on..... like i won't even TRY to mind game in this situation , just run the "genius" around the hook, force a stage two / another trade.
Second face camping is a HORRIBLE strategy, the instant you see this happen you either a) recognize you have the perks to prevent this or b) go prove yourself on gens, yes one person will die, the killer will depip. Also if you're really REAAAAALLY worried about face camping i present to you the most OP perk in the game.... Camaraderie.
Third "PROXY" camping on the other hand well..... welcome to MMR. If you watch any single competitive match you'll see tunelling / proxy camping is pretty much the norm, and commentators will be fairly puzzled when a killer DOESN'T tunell. Personally at my MMR i'm hitting the "all DH DS UB IW" lobbies of legends, the ones everyone whined about tho they weren't really running rampant. NOW i'm more surprised if my lobby ISN'T full meta survivor build, swap prove thyself in and out as convenient....
Patrolling gens is not a thing vs good survivors and you should know this on your 2000+ games of killer. 3 survivors with 2 braincells to rub together between them will be slamming away at gens every 10-20 seconds you go for a hook add in the time to find another chase after a hook that noone is going for and you've lost 3-4 gens after 2 hooks - and i wouldn't even call that 'genrushing'
Best way for killer to play atm is pray to the Entity you get a hook before your first gen pops, trade the first unhook, slug the guy that just got off and then patrol that quarter of the map, hitting survivors that are coming in for the save a good 20 meters away from the hook / slug. Ofc all this works untill the slug unbreaks himself unhooks the other dude and everyone scatters off to reset....
PS: I will say one thing about SBMM / MMR - i'm getting NICER survivors. I seem to be at that MMR where survivors are fully AWARE of the bullshit they can pull off and actually have no problem with "camping" / ######### killers. Many games i've had since SBMM hit that i was thinking "whelp, here comes the racist report train! Choo choo!" only to be greeted post game by gg's. I've prolly seen more "ggs" from survivors in the last week than in the last 5 years.....
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Do you not want to hear from the other side and try to understand that psyche? Or you just wanting an echo chamber?
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Survivors should punish this kind of playstyle, but it's still terrible for the person on the hook. They just had their game ruined and nothing they can do about it. Most killers that facecamp probably don't care about escapes or points. They do it to ruin the game.
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Obviously if you advocate for a singular definition of fun you are not going to understand others...
In fact if a player is playing however he wants while not giving negative connotation to others playstyles or choices is probably less toxic than you.
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Welcome to the reality of DBD's balance. Any time killers are pressured and forced into the dogshit that is red ranked play (and I mean actual red ranked play not the previous boosted ass survivor with a red 1 by their name, you can no longer be a boosted survivor) you start to realize just how imbalanced this game is. So all those "MR NICE GUY" strategies and that made up bullshit fake rule book survivors like to tote around, goes out the ######### window. Camping and tunneling are back on the menu when the pressure is this high.
Now me as a killer player, I think its gross, and actually enjoy some of that "Mr Nice Guy" rule set. But also me as a killer player, I 1000% understand exactly why so many killers are doing it. And I'm not even mad at it, given this games stances on balance and leaving things unfavorable for so god damn long and being lazy enough to only look at "IMPERICAL DATA!" Instead of look at what the players are actually experiencing since WE ARE NOT ROBOTS, EVERY GAME, AND KILLER, AND PLAYER, ARE DIFFERENT!
Its hard to play the "NICE GUY" game when the odds are stacked against you so high.
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Another post where survivors is complaining cool
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What you just described is the definition of understandable though. That's an actual tactical choice. Alot of times camping isn't tactical, it's just ######### trying to ruin others games.
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Remove map offerings
Survivors players abuse them
Killer players abuse them
They have no reason to exist.
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