I genuinely don't understand why killers are playing like this
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Yikes. Kicking someone out of your thread? Very toxic behavior.
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Rank 1 both sides, although I don't think rank matters. I do think I am an above average survivor and killer, but I'm definitely not as good as some players. Somewhere between a little tryhard and sweaty for both sides.
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Killers shouldn't be able to gain MMR if they are camping. It's already in the game. The developers know how to code it. If you sit next to a hook for too long, you lose chaser points for the emblem. The same system should work with your MMR. That would be significantly harder to code for tunneling, but they already have a straightforward penalty to camping that genuinely does nothing because no one cares about chaser points unless you are trying to double pip for adepts.
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I don't want to hear from people who think they are genuinely doing nothing wrong. They won't listen to me and my frustrations so I don't want to listen to them. He has missed the ENTIRE point of this discussion so he can get off of it. I've read many comments from other killers who play like this and none of them have irked me other than this guy.
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Oh. This thread again.
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Map offerings make you face camp and tunnel?? What??
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Glad to know you don't like me. I don't really care. It's the internet and it's a video game. Get over yourself.
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isn't this thread talking about unfair things people do in this game?
people using map offerings to tilt the game in their favour is and it's gross as hell
Also to answer your question, yeah - a Killer sent to a bad map is more likely to do things you mentioned if you ask me. Personally I have no mercy on map offering users.
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This ^
Frustration goes both ways (kind of a chicken and egg situation), leading to both sides playing extra
scummysweaty in order to compensate.When it takes the length of a gen or two to catch a strong survivor, I notice this especially if Ruin gets cleansed early, many killers will resort to the immediate tunnel.
It also doesn’t help that every survivor lobby (SWF or not has 2-4 BTs, and the unhooked survivor with BT obnoxiously body blocks the unhooker instead of trying to run away.
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Well how about instead of telling killers to not camp we talk about ways the game can be changed to make killers not want to camp. Like stopping hook timer for camping killers sounds like a win win, no more camping and no one being toxic telling killers about how terribly boring the game is when there's camping?
Unless you don't really care about what you said you did and just want to keep camping of course then nevermind
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What do you consider bad maps besides the obvious Haddonfield? Macmillan and Autohaven are some of the most balanced maps in the game. Don't take your frustrations out on other people.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Just read the last page and its just excuses. What are the chances that I go to the other pages and see a load of justifying facecamping at the start of the game with 'wElL oThErWiSe ThEy'D bE gEnRuShEd' lol
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poor killer queue times are not a symptom of people not wanting to play survivor. It's that there are significantly more high MMR killer players than high MMR survivors players. Low MMR values supposedly have the opposite problem, there are lots of survivors and no killers.
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Haddonfield, Ormond, Springwood, Last Mask, Coldwind
When survivors send you here, they know what they are doing
and likewise when killers burn indoor map offerings like Hawkins, it's typically because they know the map's to their favour
And for the record I don't 'take my frustrations' out, I just don't play nice when I see a map offering because to me that's a sign that the survivors are playing to win, so I will do the same in turn.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
You can't, but general game sense will tell you what they're doing. Or at least what they're most likely doing. Too many people jump to conclusions on both sides.
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I don't want to hear from people who think they are genuinely doing nothing wrong.
How you determined that they are doing something wrong or that it would be better if everyone adopted a different subset of morals and rules than the ones that already exist?
- Ever single player accepted to play the game under the same circunstances or possibilities? Yes.
- There is an "authority" who has already defined a set of rules or limitations of what is right or wrong? Yes.
Let's see if you can come with something logical.
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First and formost I must say that I think a 3v1 is always more favourable than a 4v1. Tunneling out 1 survivor, especialy the weak link in a team is alway benefical for a killer, not just Pinhead. This is part of the game dynamics of dbd and follows the good old rule: 4 survivors = 1 hooked, 1 rescuer, 1 chased, 1 on a gen (optimal), 3 survivors = 1 hooked, 1 chased, 1 rescuer, no gen. of course this is oversimplyfied.
As such while we agree that this encourages bad gameplay, I think this is by design of the game and not by design of Pinhead.
Now I understand that this is problematic. This is also the reason why I dislike playing this way. For me personaly Pinhead offers a great chance to juggle survivors, because I can always teleport to innitiate a chase with somebody who volunteers. This way I can avoid tunneling effective even if there are 3/4 survivors who all look the same (and no, I will not check names. I need my concentration for those chains.). Whoever volunteers to getting chased by solving the box gets me, unless I am otherwise incapacitated.
So in my opinion Pinhead has all the tools to juggle survivors quit well. And if a player uses those tools she will be more effective with Pinhead then by just tunneling.
However on lower Ranks/MMR/Whatever the punishment for tunneling is not there. Simply because it is quit rare to run into a good looper who can wast your time efficient or who notices that you are tunneling and punishes that (predropping more and playing even safer to wast the maximum ammont of time).
And here everything comes together: Newer players are encouraged to tunnle because A the game design rewards it with a better expirience, B (maybe) Pinheads design and C no punishment for this behaivor / no reward for not tunneling.
I think the first big reward a Killer gets for not tunneling is when they unlock BBQ and maybe this needs to change to nudge newer player into a different direction.
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"hey guys lets think of a way to change the game to make killers not want to camp." This is actually a good idea.
"Like stopping the hook timer for camping killers." This doesn't change the game to make killers not want to camp lol
You were onto something good, then just completely lost it with your prejudice.
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Players like you that play 20,000 matches, and 5,000 hours are actually the problem with DBD… Average killers are forced to camp/tunnel… Against survivors that are too well coordinated. They must take advantage of altruism to get hooks, or “win”. There is no use in expressing dissatisfaction when half the time as killer you probably catch most players because you played so much. This in turn makes most opposing players upset because they didn’t get to do anything against you. Karma!
DBD is meant to be a casual game! Players that express how long they played are the true sweatlords that take this game way too seriously. When I saw DBD tournaments I couldn’t help but laugh! Seriously..? DBD is essentially a game of online “Tag! You’re it!” Everyone in the world can’t play for 5,000 hours in order to appease what? A single digit % of the player base? You ruined your own DBD experience. Your high expectations will never come to fruition. That’s what it’s like to be a “God”. It isn’t fun being all powerful, and all knowing with something. You’re left dissatisfied half, if not all the time. 😭
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I believe it relates- hear me out. This type of play style you are seeing occurred in red ranks, but it wasn’t the norm. You alluded to it yourself in your OP. But it was VERY common in the bottom ranks. That’s why this forum was, and still is flooded with complaints about camping and tunneling. Players are not purposely playing like this because they’re trying to compete in SBMM. Those players have BEEN playing like that. Everyone got dumped into the same cesspool (thanks to SBMM), so now we all have to climb our way out. You, me, and everyone else that were in red ranks now have to deal with these type of players more often than before. My theory is because SBMM is so janky, you’ll still somehow run into them often in high MMR (to cut down on que times perhaps?) Post game they’ll most likely have a sub-par grade no-where close to yours (not always though).
Fortunately for me, I haven’t encountered too many of them since SBMM became official- but the last two beta tests for it was brutal. I had them all the time. My beef with SBMM (and I had this problem during testing as well), are my teammates being potatoes against killers who are actually good. They don’t camp or tunnel.
Definitely don’t want the two together (potatoe teammates & toxic killers). Takes forever to climb.
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No, survivors are no to blame because SBMMR doesn't punish camping/tunneling.
I'm getting really bored of people just finding excuses for camping in tunneling. Yes, they are "strats" if you are bad at the game and really need a kill. Otherwise, they're just free wins against solo players.
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"stop crying about camping", proceeds to cry about "gen rushing".
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Well if you think I was on the right track hiw about some of the other proposals I've made.
Reverse bt perk
A perk that let's the camped player stun/blind the killer when they get camped for too long
A penalty to the killer other than blood points for camping too long like a permanent deebuff to speed (this wasn't mine someone else thought it up but figured I'd mention it)
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I would explain why I would sometimes facecamp or tunnel and won't apologize about it:
1. I hooked a survivor, looked around the area... no saviors, but instead, Tinkerer pops on the other side of the map. Do you want to trade a gen for a survivor? -- I'll take the deal!
2. I hooked a survivor, but no one is on BBQ. This means you are either somewhere around or hiding in a locker, I assume you are hiding around, and I see the gens in this area. Why should I go anywhere? Come here, give me a chase. No?
3. You were awesome at looping the shack. Well, this shack had a basement and now I am gonna use this advantage because you wasted a lot of my time.
4. Given that survivors get more gen-rushy and want to end the game faster, it is reasonable to eject one from the game as soon as possible.
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Again, do I want to tunnel or facecamp? -- No, I think this is boring gameplay, but I need to do this now. Survivors think it is more fun to hold M1 on the gen the entire game and don't interact with the killer. Well, then instead of being a fun killer I am gonna camp and tunnel you when it is reasonable. I don't even want to 4K or something, I want to end this boring match, where I cannot do what I wanted to do, just sooner.
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Before SBMM i got 4k's easy, zero tunnelling and zero camping.
But the past weeks been a nightmare for me as a killer. I havent camped or tunnelled til today, and this is out of desperation. I've been getting destroyed all week. Survs are taking items all the time now. I haven't had a lobby in days where a survivor comes in empty handed, and its one of two items. A Key or a Toolbox. Ive seen so many BNP's being used its unreal. Id say i see one every 3 games now. In 4 cases ive seen all 4 come in with BNP.
Gen rushing is even worse than before now. Thus today i took the option to tunnel and haven't lost a match since. Only way people escape is through hatch at the end, or if i drop them at the gate.
From now on, im going to tunnel as without it, i just dont have fun. And if survs dont have fun either, then well, thats not my problem.
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I am also tired of people making assumptions which role I am playing depending on my post.
Doing gens instead of crouching behind rocks or trying to get killers attention are bad plays. Also suiciding immediately instead of hanging on dooms your team. We are all in control of these. Why are we giving killers "free wins" again?
Camping/tunneling are just one of the things that people get upset about in this game. And this one could be dealt with simply by teaching killers they can't get away with it like they do now. We can lower their sbmm actually without bhvr.
So yes I am blaming survivors for making really bad decision. And it is too simple to figure out. If killer camps from the start you pointing at him or whatever is just giving him more kills. Why people do this again?
Also I am glad if I rot on that hook as long as my team gets out and show killers that some people actually use their brains.
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Now give some suggestions that reward the killer for not camping instead or just looking to punish them like the survivor main you are :)
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Medkits piss me off. they allow the survivor to quickly negate any chase you had with them while also not interrupting other survivors allowing for maximum gen efficiency.
If we didn't have medkits then injuring survivors to cause pressure and gen stall would be viable or make them waste time with self care...
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Everything I got from your post is if survivors do this mistake = they have no brain.
Have you thought about the fact that this is an issue about solo q mostly? You can have 9548095784096809 IQ, solo Q wont make it easier for you just because you're intelligent.
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Same experience, same decision. I'm tunneling as well now. If i play nicely, i just get 1K max.
And yes, i saw it aswell, all 4 survivors running meta perks and bringing items. On my side it was more medkit (purple or grey + insta heal) and flashlights. Sometimes keys but less often than what you experience.
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There's no punishment there, or do you consider bt a punishment for killers and ruin a punishment for survivors?
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You don't have to be too smart to do what I mentioned. Everyone can do it easily if they wanted to.
But sabotaging the whole team is better I guess. Then ranting on forums about something you can deal with is also going to fix everything for you surely.
If killer is prone to camping and do it often denying them additional kills is the best approach you can do.
If you are the martyr it doesn't matter because you will not be one in every game ever. While the killers prone to camping from the start will be in a situation they created themselves as long as they keep doing it.
Why can't we do this together and see how it goes?
Also why is camping/tunneling called lazy and horrible "strat" but doing everything but gens while the killer camps is fine?
Survivors are not innocent in this scenario unless they are doing gens. It is unfortunate when your team doesn't do what they should but it is a team game and we should all give our best.
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They already tried the hook timer thing and survivors just kept the killer near the hook while their buddy freely did the gens. "BuT If tHe KilLer Is chAsiNg The TImer No Fall" then they just run back and forth baiting the killer to safe areas out of chase range until he commits to one of them and wastes time.
Once you go on the hook you are DEAD. it is up to the others to save you or the killer to be kind and let you go.
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Let's talk about that kind of trials, that are 100% of the trials at high mmr rank. Of course it was a 3Q (clan tag) + 1 soloQ. They mostly had coms to help them moreover.
Now explain me how a killer is supposed to win against this team without abusing camping and tunneling ? With the toolboxes, 4 gens can go in 80 seconds, in one chase. So explain me how you can win.
During this trial they :
- did a pallet save
- used unbreakable once
- used DH twice
- used balance landing twice
- used BT 3 times
- used DS once
If i had played properly, i would have ended with 0 kill, maybe one kill. They all knew how to loop.
So a good looper with DH will make you loose 80 seconds +, even if y ou are a good killer. Just holding W after a hit make you save 20 seconds chase.
Even well known streamers are camping and tunneling (have no mercy) to get the win, without this they loose.
When i see this screen and those survivors (i remind you, it's 100% like this in high MMR), i see survivors abusing, forcing more and more into a game that is totally survivor sided in high rank but still it's not enough, they bring items with add-ons... and meta perk, playing in SWF.
And tunneling/camping in this case is abusing the gameplay ?
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This is what MMR will force killer to do if they want to win. Tunneling in particular is necessary at higher MMR because "playing fair" will get you 1 maybe 2 kills and tbaggs at the exit gates. If survivors want "fair" games, they they will have to give up a lot to make killers not go for the fastest kills possible. Things like insta heals, BNP, dead hard to invalidate mindgames, map offerings/map size and so on. But we all know that won't happen so get used it folks. This is DBD now, sweat or get crushed.
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Wait your saying the killers had to stop camping how atrocious. We can't have a solution to stop camping actually stop camping
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Can't help but notice you forgot about my question
Do you consider bt a punishment for killers and ruin a punishment for survivors?
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how is it fair to force stupid chases in dead zones that the killer has no reason to go to? It is especially problematic if the killer has a 3 gen going because they will always be near the survivor since they are watching the nearby gens.
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Ruin does nothing to survivors with good time management and can be removed while bt is always in play and can't be removed. I am perfectly fine with bt and think it is a good perk.
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Interesting so when the devs implement changes to target gen rushing or tunneling its alright but targeting camping is abuse. Can you explain the difference
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U are totally right. Nothing to add.
Special mention to console players btw. They can´t even read the end game chat and receive feedback about how disgusting was the way they played so they stick into it.
I am having plenty of games where facecamp or hard tunnel since the beggining happen. Games like that can´t be more unfun and toxic. Considering most of people play at Solo Q. Devs can say this is legal strat, but is totally harmfull for game experience and therefore base data playe. They should do something against these dirty cheap and honorless tactics. Last game I went against a Oni facecamping at 5 gens. I just stopped in his face and point him with finger. Doubtless he takes me down too. 3rd rescuer come with same result. After game, the surv that didn´t go found hatch with a key. He said I was toxic and he reported me.
What I mean, is that if all survs would refuse play with these toxic players, eventually they´d just have to learn how to play in a decent game or they would just get tired of playing like this being ignored by the community every single game.
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I'll make it short and simple. Killer HAS to tunnel and camp now due to how fast gens fly. If you don't have gen regression perks, or you had Ruin but it got deleted from the Trial, then gens pop too fast. I'm averaging 2 hooks by the time 3 gens pop in my matches now, if I don't tunnel I get maybe 1 kill if I sweat hard. If I tunnel some dude at the start, I get 2-3, rarely 4 kills. Blame the game's balancing, not the players, for having to resort to dirty tactics.
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DIsagree. Eventually someone will try a rescue and fall down too. Facecamper doesn´t mean 1 kill. Many times is 4 kills instead due to survivors altruism.
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Or just simple time it takes to die is enough that the gens don't finish. They do a couple or three and then you have a 1 v 3 for the remaining gens
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Killers don´t need tunnel or camp to win games. Specially if we talk about top tier killers. People on the forum talk like if they were facing Oracle all the games. And that´s totally not true as the majority survs are playing Solo Q.
Most unskilled killers just will go the ez way because they are not confident on their looping skills and they just wanna win the game. Not learn how to loop.
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Lmso no they aren’t. If you camp/tunnel the whole trial you’ll lose as killer against competent players. You proxy camp the hooks later in the match, and chase one person in hopes that their allies sac/body block for them. If you chase/hook one person at a time (Rotation)... They’ll all escape. Every time. I guarantee you. Unless they’re really bad, or make a mistake in which they get caught in like 15-20 seconds... Any competent player will make a dedicated chase last at least 30 seconds. Using vaults, loops, and pallets. Then in between the time killer has to carry the downed person to a hook, and then walk back to a gen… That is more than 40 seconds (The time it takes for 2 people to do a gen)... When you chase 1 person you assume 2 are doubling up. Meaning each given chase is 1 and a half gens. So in 4 full chases the trial will be done.
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At high rank you face way more "SWF". 3Q or 4Q.
But even soloQ players are really good and when you get 4 good survivors, soloQ or not it's sweaty.
And yes, high mmr Killers need to tunnel/come back on saves to win. Just look at some high skilled streamers, they all do it.
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30 seconds in high mmr, you are kind. I would say more around 60/80.
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Maybe if people would understand tunnel vs gen rush is the optimal way to play BUT very far from the most funny way to play, games would be much better.
This is a developer fault for creating these boring tactics as the most rewarding in game tactics.
We need another game mode. This kind of threads won´t ever stop as there are many people unsatisfied with this gameplay. I don´t play to win. I´m not stick on a gen all the time. I wanna explore the map, have chases, try flashlight saves, rescue, do bodyblocks, etc. I don´t wanna play tunnel gen rush simulator.
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