SBMM is really forcing me into becoming a survivor main.

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GoodBoyKaru
GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
edited September 2021 in General Discussions

Okay so basically, SBMM has been nothing but a pure negative for me. I absolutely despise it.

As you know, I've always said on these forums that the 0.1% optimal SWF are incredibly rare in red ranks, and if you're losing the majority of your games there's definitely room for improvement on your end, since a lot of survivors in red ranks just weren't good and could be caught fairly easily. And I still stand by that statement.

Only for rank-based matchmaking, however.

Now, you see dear children, I played an awful lot of killer during the times of RBMM and, dare I say, I was actually rather good at it. In red ranks, for RBMM, and I played very casually. I didn't sweat, nor did I play particularly "scummy"- my definition of scummy being used here is probably very different to yours. I had a moral code I enjoyed following, and overall I had a fun experience.

However, because of me playing so much killer, I appear to have tricked the system. It, for some reason, thinks my measely 3.4k hours can put up a particularly fair fight vs the SWF teams people thought they were facing. I know I'm facing these teams because I check Steam profiles to see how effective SBMM is in terms of hours, achievements, and comments if any are available. The majority of players I face have each other on their friends list, some have clan tags in their names, and they all seem to have over double- sometimes even triple- my in-game hours.

To put it simply, it isn't fun. It is the very opposite of fun. I am not having a very good time.

Now- queue times! Yes, these wonderful things! Playing when I used to get instant queues now leaves me waiting for over 20 minutes, only to be thourougly destroyed by the Coldwind offering, Prove Thyself, and very good MedKits/Toolboxes. And I have to say, waiting 20+ minutes to face that game after game really isn't my idea of fun.

And one of your biggest selling points of this system- individual killer MMR- doesn't seem to wish to function either, as killers I play literally never and I'm trying to get achievements for currently (Clown, Ghostface, Trapper, Michael, Pig, and Oni) seem to be getting the same teams I'm getting as Wraith, Nurse, Pyramid Head, and Freddy. How do I know they're the same? Because they are quite literally the same people- like I said, I check Steam profiles where possible and changing your name on console is a pain in the ass :)

This is playing cross-play on, by the way.

So, whilst survivor hasn't really gotten better thanks to SBMM, it also hasn't gotten noticeably worse either- and I chalk this down to me not playing survivor very often and the fact my build literally revolves around bullying myself into doing generators because I never seem to be on them.

And because that's still somewhat fun, I fear your system may be bullying me into maining survivor.

I have always held the opinion that this game had, and has, serious balance issues, that were mitigated due to the massive variety in player skill at even ranks 1 and 2. SBMM has taken this variety, and thrown it out of the window, exposing the massive flaws in balance. And I know another reason for this is so you can see where the balance issues lie with data- but the funny thing is, the community could have told you that. Like they could have, and were, telling you SBMM is a horrible idea that will make playing killer for anyone remotely competent nothing but an absolute bore where you're forced into playing the meta because you have no other choice.

And that leads me onto another thing! I have played roughly 50 killer games since SBMM was enabled, and won approximately 2 of them, with another 3 ending in the much-loved 2k2e. So, theoretically, my MMR must have plummeted faster than my last relationship, right? Wrong! I'm still facing the same teams, and the same people (because, again, I keep track of who I face).

It really isn't a fun experience, and if survivor stops being fun I might genuinely stop playing for good- which is a shame, because not only has this game been with me throughout a large part of me growing up, but it does actually get quite fun at times; I'd argue the majority of the time it was fun, actually. This fun has evaporated, much like what would happen if you threw a water baloon at the sun, leaving nothing but a dry husk of disappointment.

I am well aware that I am the problem here- it is my lack of skill which is causing these results, and I completely accept that, as well as the fact that I need to get better.

My issue arises with the fact that my rating is not dropping, apparently, so I cannot actually face people my skill level and improve my gameplay, or grind out achievements. And the only reason I got this high was because I was a good player facing average to bad survivors and I won against them a lot.

I really want this to work, and I really want this to be fun.

Please, BHVR, either send this back to the drawing board or try your best to improve it over time- hopefully rather quickly. I'd get on my knees and beg, but this is an internet forum and I doubt it would do much.

(Please forgive any real errors with this post- I wrote it rather angrily despite the fact I was planning a more in-depth post later on and stole my points from that post to here. Also I am just realising this probably should've been in Feedback over General Discussions).

Comments

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,547
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    This has been my experience as well, except I'm still "winning" most of my matches.

    For every game that I get that has Survivors who INDIVIDUALLY have quadruple my hours, I get another where they have a quarter.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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  • baseballfan4877
    baseballfan4877 Member Posts: 364
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    Same. Survivor is a lot more chill. When I play survivor I don't mind losing at all. When I play killer, losing is the most upsetting thing. But I don't play this game to hold m1 on a gen. I'd much rather be playing a killer, but at the moment, the stress is just too high to enjoy.

  • Bwsted
    Bwsted Member Posts: 3,452
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    At what time of the day do you play?

    My experience is quite the opposite while playing morning/afternoon in EU. I've faced 4 or 5 decent teams and I got 1k/2ks. Other than that, difficulty was average (but not too challenging) or below and I 4k/3k'd with hatch in all of those. And that was definitely because of the quality of the survivors, not because I did anything special.

    Overall, it's been noticeably easier than during rank-based matchmaking and also more boring.

    Ironically, that's what's pushing me into becoming a survivor main, but for reasons completely opposite from yours. And queue times. That too.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    I play evening/night time in EU- previous peak time for killer queues when facing a large variety of survivors now seems to be hell.

    I'd try playing during day/afternoon in EU but I'm running out of any and all free time during daylight hours as-is and I don't fancy Uni applications at 3am

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547
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    I'm not reading that

    But glad you join the right side can we play sometime 👉 👈

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    TL;DR it makes me sad :(

    but we couldve played whenever im just too socially anxious to ever ask and rely entirely on other people to ask me

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    for me to be affected by the gen slowdown meta i must actually do generators therefore i have tricked the system by making them waste all their perks ggez

  • OniWantsYourMacaroni
    OniWantsYourMacaroni Member Posts: 5,944
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    Don't worry,there's enough tunneling,camping and slugging too for you to enjoy ;)

    (It's alright for killers to use these tactics,doesn't mean that i'll enjoy it though)

  • Psycho_
    Psycho_ Member Posts: 355
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    I can't get a damn que, I wait 15 minutes to get a game. this sucks. thanks guys

  • Psycho_
    Psycho_ Member Posts: 355
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    Also I'm tired of playing survivor.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    that needs them to find my in the locker, waiting patiently with head on equipped >:)

  • OldHunterLight
    OldHunterLight Member Posts: 3,001
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    I too hate sbmm, makes my killer matches extremely boring, so yes, I might also turn into a survivor main, I just dislike waiting for 20 minutes then getting an extreme boring match when I can play a decently fun survivor match.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321
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    I don't usually read long threads but this is a pretty good read with good structure, reasonable arguments etc.

    Personally I haven't had too many frustrating matches as killer because MMR "seemingly" noticed that I'm only going for hooks and if possible - no kills and a maximum of 2 kills.

    Earlier today I had survivors with less than 1k hours (I sometimes check via steamcommunity on my phone). One of them even had only 300 hours. As a result they made a lot of mistakes allowing me to be even more chill than I used to be. Let 2 of them go as usual and had a really good time.

    I don't understand why MMR seems to put you with elite survivors only if you don't 4k all the same. Does MMR take chase duration into account by any chance?

    Because I'm sure your Pyramid Head will end chases far more quickly than my Nemesis who basically gives everyone a 3rd health state.

  • Kebek
    Kebek Member Posts: 3,676
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    Yes it's been a bother to play killer lately since playing against optimal survivors as anything but the 3 meta killers is tedious. Even when I manage to win then every now and then, que times take longer and games are usually quite short.

    For now, I'll just play survivor. At least there I've seen an improvement that my teammes aren't as big of a potatoes as they used to be.

  • Psycho_
    Psycho_ Member Posts: 355
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    from what we know chase is slightly considered. Mostly, its match time, deaths, and escapes.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    Because I'm sure your Pyramid Head will end chases far more quickly than my Nemesis who basically gives everyone a 3rd health state.

    My Pyramid Head chases usually rely on out of animation lock hits, because nobody expects them. Rather tragically, they are also incredibly easy to counter. So while everyone up to good players gets hit with relative ease, as soon as I hit the good players it all comes crashing down quicker than me falling down the stairs. So while I still have some fast chases, a combination of actually utilising braincells and the W key (which was my exact issue during the last SBMM test, funnily enough- it's almost like anyone could've told you it was a bad idea :0) may or may not hard counter my entire ability and cripple me into Man with Big Knife

  • DoctorDarling
    DoctorDarling Member Posts: 44
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    I'm very experienced as survivor, and very new as killer--started giving it another try with Pinhead and having a lot more fun than I had in the past. But yeah, then the matchmaking dropped and it was brutal. I often play against people who I can't catch at all, or literally don't know how to play. And often in the same match.

    I do find it's been getting slowly better though. I'm hopeful.

  • Zozzy
    Zozzy Member Posts: 4,759
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    How it should be.

    At least they are getting some good data to look at now since feedback seems to hit a brick wall.

    I always ignored the games I won because I knew it wasn't because of anything I did but what they failed to do.

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
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    3.4k hours is plenty, fam. Don't even think I have that many in Overwatch and I played that religiously for 5 years, rofl.


    I do not care if some survivors have 3 times that somehow, the game is basic enough that after 1k, you should know what you need to know. No offense intended.


    The inherent issue is just the design of the game. If you break it down piece by piece, it is ludicrously survivor favored. You would not magically stomp them if you had 6k hours. You would still be getting bent over.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    3.4k hours is not plenty to combat the literal competitive players when I've played casually for most of, if not all of, my playtime darling

    I do not care if some survivors have 3 times that somehow, the game is basic enough that after 1k, you should know what you need to know. No offense intended.

    You clearly don't seem to see the issue in someone trying to play a video game casually for fun and the 6k hour competitive teams with fully stacks builds I am facing.

    The inherent issue is just the design of the game. If you break it down piece by piece, it is ludicrously survivor favored. You would not magically stomp them if you had 6k hours. You would still be getting bent over.

    No, but I'd have much more of a fighting chance :)

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
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    Those are two separate issues. One is measuring playtime, and the other is intent. If you are just playing to have fun as killer against survivors playing to win, I expect you to come back in a casket. Ha ha ha... That was kind of my point.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,633
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    If you are just playing to have fun as killer against survivors playing to win, I expect you to come back in a casket.

    And the entire point of my post is that I was pefectly fine doing this for coming up 4 years and SBMM has just given me the finger.

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
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    Well, yeah? Because the survivors you are getting are high mmr whereas the general matchmaking you were running into lots of survivors also playing for fun. But survivor mains who don't optimize their role are a little bit sus... Let's be real. Now you are getting people who play optimally. They could have 500 hours and still do the same, realistically. The issue is the role dynamic, not mmr. Killer was too broken against chill homies, and killer is too weak against esports wannabes.


    I am not sure what you want me to tell you. If you just want to have some fun and feel survivor is the way to do it, go for it, man. If you dislike survivor, it is not like mmr is going anywhere. So you are screwed, fam. I am sorry.

  • Mert_MK
    Mert_MK Member Posts: 674
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    Same here. I'm a Survivor Main but would play Killer from time to time before MMR was a thing, mainly Pig.

    Now however i'll probably just play Survivor only and completely give up on playing Killer because i'm getting the same kind of players you are getting as well. Comp wannabes bringing the strongest items, map offerings etc.. Goes without saying that these matches don't go well at all when you're Pig and i'm not interested in having to hardcore sweat every single game, playing Spirit or learning Nurse just to stand a chance against these teams.

  • RainbowPatooie
    RainbowPatooie Member Posts: 322
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    The way mmr seems to work now, it's extremely hard for non-swf to even get close to high mmr. Which means alot of good killers are going up against the sweatiest swfs.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,777
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    Mmr made survivor more fun

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814
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    If you kept 4k-ing pre-mmr, it shot you up to the top and won't let you fall back down no matter how much you lose.

    I'm in a similar boat as you, only what everyone is now complaining about was just normal AU red ranks (except we had instant ques). Now, after not caring at all and losing about 300-400 trials pre-mmr, I'm having the time of my life being all chill and stuff.