Why is W key meta a thing?
Seriously its so boring and turn chases in to no skill situations for both sides. When I'm playing killer I see survivors w key all the time which means I have to w key after them which takes no skill and when they get to a loop they can't loop normally because they didn't learn because they just w most matches.
I just don't get it chases are the best part and they show off your skill as a killer/survivor but with this w key meta most my chases become mindless running sims.
Is there anyway to make w key less effective and bring some of the fun back to chases?
Comments
-
Better map design.
35 -
What I don't understand is it takes me longer as killer to catch up to the survivors than it does when I try it as survivor.
Seriously, they can get close to the other side of the map, I'm lucky if I can make it to the second loop lol.
23 -
Looping shows off one of the skills that a survivor has. They don't show the skill a survivor has. Situational awareness and decision making are equally, if not more important than looping skill. A 10 second chase in the right part of the map is better than a 30 second chase in the wrong part. So the question you're asking is: "Why are survivors trying to play well?"
14 -
Make every map around the size of Coal Tower and Midwich. The biggest maps should only be the size of Ironworks at max.
0 -
Thats my point it takes no skill and then turns the chase into no skill for the killer.
0 -
And some survivors want to get rid of bloodlust. Imagine how much longer it would take to catch up without it.
5 -
Well yeah more like why play efficient at the cost of fun? On top of that this game really brakes down when either side tries to play efficient imo. Ok as a killer if I see you w to a strong tile across the map im probably not taking that chase. Its going to take to much time to catch you plus the loop time plus we pass like 3 really strong tiles on the way there so you have those and I'm not dealing with all that.
0 -
You can run STBL but I have to also run ruin/undying to slow down gens and bbq because I'm still grinding. Thats all my perk slots.😭
0 -
Bbq, ruin, pop and discordance is what I normally have to run. Stbl is for quicker hits. Do you mean play with your food?
I do like to fiddle with bamboozle, stbl and blood warden now and again, not on the same build though.
0 -
Due to the many, many Killers in DBD ignore most looping skills (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Freddy, Twins, Doctor, Deathslinger, etc.) it's just a much better idea to force them to hold W then to try and loop them because you'll probably go down quickly due to how much anti loop some of these Killers have. Killer's like Deathslinger and Nemesis are extremely powerful in the chase but have no way to catch up to survivors quickly meaning that wasting as much of their time by just holding down a single button is more effective than trying to loop them. It's not fun for either side but it's a necessity so long as Killers like them keep getting created.
12 -
*Survivor's running
Killer main: too OP. Pls nerf
12 -
But nurse spirits blight and deathsling sort of can close ground quickly making w less effective.
0 -
Well - it wastes the killer's time - which in turn allows gens to get done. Why would a survivor do something that could potentially end a chase much quicker? If the goal of a survivor is to get gens done and escape - why not use whatever they can to achieve this goal? Granted I think I MAYBE see this once every 5-6 matches by MAYBE 1-2 survivors.
It doesn't bother me as killer honestly - I can recognize those who are going to do that and those who I can easily get. The problem I see with a lot of killers is not recognizing when to abandon chase and switch targets. Like most things on these forums though - this is an overused term and definitely not something I see very often in actual matches.
Here's the thing - I don't care how people play, what perks they bring, what killer they play, items, addons - we all paid to play - so let people play how they want.
2 -
The problem with W-meta is not that its strong, but rather that eliminates skill. A rank 20 Meghead can hold W just as good as a 7K hours Legacy Nea.
2 -
It's not meta. Sorry, but there's nothing meta about running away from a killer. I've never complained about a survivor running from me in a straight line.
There are multiple things you can do: Herd them, corner them, force a mistake, realise this chase would be unproductive and move on to another, use ranged killers, use speed add-ons (if available), use them to lead to others, use them to know which gen they want you to run from, focus on gens closer together and force them into the territory, use trap killers, learn their habits so you know how to cut them off next time.
All the above work. There will be times when they don't, but that's the whole point of the game: you won't win every chase! If you're running after survivors for long periods of time, then the fault isn't "hold W" - the fault is the tactic you choose. If "hold W" was as meta as some claim, there should be easy escapes every time. There isn't.
7 -
Really I see it all the time. I'm am average to below imo as a killer but I just find it boring. I find that been efficient in this game is boring and takes the fun out of it. I hate sitting on gens as a survivor I would rather try to make the crazy save or take the heat from the killer so I can learn to last longer than 30 seconds in a chase.
I won't lie i am guilty of not dropping chases i should sometimes but I do try and recognize when I do it and stop.
I'm not saying not to do it or its not aloud I'm a firm believer in play how you want and use what you want. Except for old DS that was all bs and I still have flashbacks of taking 4 ds in my first 4 chases.
0 -
But they are extremely strong at loops. If you force them to extend it gives you more plays rather than trying to play a tile and get hit shortly after.
100% the recent killers have just been anti loop galore so it’s no surprise making distance is as strong as it is.
7 -
The problem is that bloodlust is a bandaid on the main problem. Which is piss poor map design. As a killer main I support removing bloodlust, but I don't support removing it while half the maps in the game basically require tier 1 bloodlust to get hit on any decent survivor
2 -
Its not like BL help because they start running before the chase start so you as a player the chase is on but for the game its not you need to be at 10 or 12 meter of the survivor when he run with the LoS on him so this can take 15 to 20 sec before the game see you chasing someone
0 -
It just comes down to what someone finds fun. Some people like optimizing every part of survivor play and others just enjoy the looping aspect. Games where we only take 3 hooks and all escape are more fun to me than games where we take a bunch of unnecessary hits/hooks because of poor positioning. I hold W, run to corners when I can't extend chases anymore, and bodyblock for injured teammates who run near my gen. It's what I find fun.
1 -
I just want to say I'm a killer main and I do play some survivor but I do appreciate the point of view and understanding of more seasoned survivors. I still think trying to be as efficient as possible brakes the game. Im not saying to not try to win by all means do im competitive and will be trying to win as well. One this that does bother me though is when a survivor w keys to a strong tile and then start spaming quick actions because I won't follow them half way across the map to shack with 2 gens left and there a strong looper.
0 -
I see it all the time and I admitted that I do make the mistake of taking chases to long sometimes and that is all on me. Most of those are very situational I was playing Mikey(my fav) and all of them would just w across the map after first hit so how do I counter that if I just didn't take any of those chases I would of had 1-2 hooks?
1 -
And I find that very boring but if thats how you want to play then I respect it. I would rather have extended matches where I had good interactions with the killer and scored som decent BP and the best part is both are completely valid play styles. IMO
0 -
That's your anecdotal bias though. You've not seen it a lot in your games, but maybe op has seen it a lot in their games. I know I used have at least 1 survivor per match wanting to run to furthest deadzone corner. I usually just let the run and drop the chase because there simply isn't enough time to deal with that while policing gens.
It's enough of an issue that people who don't post on the forum talk about how silly it on a regular basis. Sure it is the most efficient way of dealing with a chase on the survivor side, but it isn't engaging gameplay. Killers get constantly ran down about how they're only concerned with winning and not with making engaging gameplay by constantly going for the most efficient strategies. At least their still required to be engaging if even for a short period of time.
That is what annoys me in dbd. We have to depend on the opposing sides to make engaging gameplay and engaging gameplay is rarely efficient gameplay when it comes to dbd.
1 -
Firstly, love that you choose Myers! He's vastly underrated by many.
As for the chase, Myers is best used not to chase until hitting Tier 3, unless there's a good opportunity in sneaking up on someone. If someone is stupid enough to run in a straight line away from Myers, just hit that stalk button and boost up the tiers.
Myers feels like an opportunistic killer who's like Trapper in that he comes into his own during the late game. That's when survivors have nightmares, especially if gen management is done right.
Basically, your options are: 1. Stalk-stalk-stalk, 2. Observe where they like to run to (usually that could be good to remember not only for where they feel safest, but also where they may heal up if you have the gens close togethef), 3. Herd them, so approach from different angles so they become disorientated or nervous, which'll lead to mistakes and 4. Early on, encourage then to work together to get the Tier meter up quickly, so patrol some gens near to each other, then move towards a further one where (hopefully) they have grouped together because they've seen you patrol.
Those would be the best tactics. Myers isn't a chaser, but someone who watches until the time is right. So use them running away to your advantage. It's a lot of fun to improve mind games in unique and unsuspecting ways! Oh, and also experiment. If you have a strange idea which you doubt would work, do it anyway! You may stumble across a killer tactic!
0 -
Thanks you make my point so much better than me.
0 -
Just holding W is a smart strategy. Thing is with every release of a killer it gives people more reason to just run rather than loop because all of the recent killers have had a decent anti-looping power.
Also people saying that the holding W meta takes no skill is a slight lie. You need to know how far you can go before you need to loop. The times where you think you can leave the loop safely without using any resources does take skill.
The best way to fix this problem is give killers a better tool for mobility. Killers like Blight and Billy really hurt the W game meta.
6 -
Playing well is using your resources well, not throwing them away or outright ignoring them. Why do you think most people find comp DbD boring AF? It has almost no community coverage.
1 -
I won't lie they were pretty decent survivors. I didn't get out of t1 for 20-30 seconds and that almost never happens. And if you w after myers get a hit you can normal make enough distance that when he stalks he's not getting much. I ended up with a 3k because they got cocky around 2 gens and then 3 gen themselves and that is not where you want to be against a 99% myers. I love myers he's been my main since almost day 1 and I'm still learning trick with him. I personally believe his snow ball is up there with oni not on par but can be close.
1 -
I am ashamed to admit. I've been playing games since I was 2, and I never took the time to realize this is what META stands for. Thank you for teaching me.
1 -
I don't see why people should be shamed for...
Running away from the killer? I hate this narrative that "shift + w" is completely brainless when in actuality, it's not. If I am hit by the killer and I know using the speed boost that I can make it to a tile that is further away then I'm going to do it. Why would I give the killer the advantage by running to a tile that is already close by while injured?
I understand why people feel it's frustrating; really I do. It takes so long to catch up to someone running in a straight line after you hit them, that's why killers like Wraith and Blight are so popular and strong because their power negates this
but on the other hand Nurse and Spirit almost completely ignore the things that this thread says defines a survivors "skill". So... ???
5 -
It's better than using all the loops side by side, potentially wasting all pallets in an area and creating quick deadzones.
No to mention, as you said, killer must catch up.
Sorry, want me to stand and wait for you at the next one?
1 -
My question is when you are running are you run tell you have to pick a tile regardless of straight or are you run to a strong tile to chain loops together because on takes skill and the other doesn't.
0 -
I'll make a hypothetical example
Let's say we're in the middle of the map on coal tower, let's assume for the sake of argument it's a basic m1 killer
He hits me and instead of running to the jungle gym that's next to me I instead decide to use my speedboost to run all the way to the main building (which is the coal tower itself) and from there, I proceed to use the pallets around it and so on.
2 -
So your chaining loops together. If you were w key you would skip the building and just get as far away as possible regardless of what tile you end up at.
0 -
If I have no other options, I'll just run to a corner or jump in a locker to make as much delay as possible
Those extra few seconds might make a difference, at the very least
1 -
Well, assuming a 30m gap, with zero bloodlust it would take 50 seconds with a basic m1 killer.
With bloodlust it would take (15×0.6) + (15×0.8) + (9×1) for a grand total of 39 seconds, assuming I got the maths right, which means bloodlust saves 11 seconds. Great, right?
Except that Chase isn't initiated until you are within 12m of one another. Which means that Bloodlust won't activate until you are 3m apart in a pure hold-W situation, meaning it doesn't even affect the chase. And if you're not in a pure-W scenario, then it will be broken by the pallets you have to break.
Bloodlust helps in loops. It doesn't help counter the W key.
1 -
And? Almost every killer I go against will camp and tunnel. Both are boring and take no skill. I don't think their gonna nerf any of those things. We just have to deal with it.
0 -
It's because they keep making anti-loop killers which are aids to go against, all of the skill in this game is being slowly taken away.
4 -
As pallets and loops have slowly and slowly been nerfed, less fog in the maps, gigantic palletless deadzones, and killers are extremely aware of where survivors are always located due to aura perks, the only thing left is to hold W. Survivors slowly adapted to killers having no counterplay on the map.
Basically, everything has been nerfed except the W key.
6 -
Oh please. Almost every killer in the game has the same counter and that counter is very effective. Anytime a killer breaks away from this counter, people whine on every forum. So they stopped putting out killers that break away from circle, circle, drop pallet.
1 -
They could do something where bloodlust charges really fast when line of sight is maintained and diminishes very quickly when broken maybe?
0 -
Because you don't have good grasp on distance and probably wasting it. Getting hit then getting speed boost from it can almost get you from corner of the map to the next then there's dead hard if you miscalculated the distance. Then there's situations where a killer gets stunned and has to break pallet = more distance or a survivor waste some of his speed boost from turning around or vaulting window can make him lose distance, Things like that. If you understand how far you can get away with distance then game is easy and only S tier killer can win.
Oh yeah there's also the fact that bloodlust is a thing, The longer you can stay away from Chase mechanics, the farther distance you can get and they have a harder time catching up when you periodically keep trying to lose line of sight.
0 -
I mean aside from things which can be shown through actual statistics (which I do often) - everyone is just stating their opinion based on their empirical experience. My "job" as either killer or survivor is not to make the game "fun" for others - my "job" is whatever I determine it to be - whether that be to escape, do 2 gens, sacrifice 2 survivors, etc. Of course I am biased - just like you are biased. We all have our own ideas of what a fun game is and is not.
I think it is silly to dictate or try to dictate what others can and cannot do in this game. I have no issues with people who hold W, killers who camp or tunnel - because it's their match as well. Too many people like to say what others should do, what perks people should use, what items/addons people should or shouldn't use - and that's just stupid to me. To me you can't condone tunneling or camping if you also do not condone "holding W" - it's just hypocritical. Maybe people would have more fun in this game if they stopped trying to say what others shouldn't be doing.
0 -
Nemesis is 115, Demo is 115, Pyramid Daddy is 115, Pig, Freddy, ghostface, twins, Blight, clown. 115 killers very much exist, but they don't do well when the only option is to run in straight lines for a dog's age. TRickster, Huntress, Slinger, and Pinhead(We opened the box and He Came) to a lesser extent can fight that a bit easier.
0 -
Well at the end of the day if you are a anti loop killer I'm just gonna play that way because it's the best way
4 -
I try but I'm console so its so much harder learning them.
0 -
A little detail nemesis when tier 2 and they are infected.
0 -
Imagine complaining about survivors running away from you lol. After the DS nerf people really do be reaching
2 -
Game is too fast. It's not they take skill away, it's survivor mains with their infinite looping force killer mains to ask for changes and more anti-loop mechanics. Cause lets take a basic M1 killer like Clown, or Legion or Billy, etc. Against decent survivor u will loose a game if u don't catch them in 20-30 sec, while survivor just pre drop every single pallet and either loop or hold W to next one. And if they have DS DH it's even more painful.
So who needs more skill in this situation? Survivor pre drop every pallet no matter the result and pressing DH when he made a mistake or killer that is forced to catch as soon as possible.
Try to make 12 Hook play against decent survivor. Majority killers struggle with it, so they have to tunnel weakling and force strong players to come save it.
1
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
