I wish they hadn't been as harsh with the Deathslinger nerfs (Edit: They weren't!)
(Edit: Turns out that, as per the attached image, his ADS is only being increased to 0.4 seconds! This is fantastic and his quickscope should stay intact, and as such, everything below is no longer a real issue. I am incredibly happy right now.)
Deathslinger was and always has been my favourite killer since his release, and I've spent many hundreds of hours playing and mastering him. I'm on console, too, so learning him was an exercise in patience and frustration, but at the end of it all he was just unmitigated fun. His power was usable and strong at pretty much every loop, had its large strengths and even larger weaknesses, and although he had his issues like his unfair zoning and TR, the right changes could have fixed this.
However, the removal of his quickscope is quite honestly really depressing. His quickscope is the reason why he isn't bad - anyone who's played him for longer than three matches will tell you that extended ADSing is a terrible idea because of how low your sensitivity is, how slow you are, and most importantly, how easy it is to dodge his projectile due how to telegraphed it is. Being able to shoot immediately is what made up for all his weaknesses - his single shot and constant reloads, the reel mechanic, the chain break, the tiny hitbox, his terrible map pressure, just to name a few. Now that that's gone, he has nothing that contrasts these weaknesses. The "buff" they gave him in return is also terrible. As I said before, you never want to ADS for long periods because of its many drawbacks and how easy it is to dodge a highly telegraphed, low sensitivity, tiny hitbox spear with travel time.
The problem with Deathslinger wasn't getting shot, it's the fact that walking backwards while reeling made a shot a near-guaranteed hit. I thought that was his design - an easier hit than Huntress, but a hit doesn't guarantee a down. Now it's a harder hit than Huntress, and with less ammo then Huntress, and with more punishment for missing than Huntress, and slower health state taking and efficiency than Huntress, on top of the already existing reel mechanic making shots not always equate to downs. With the ADS change, the only thing Deathslinger now has that is superior to Huntress is his ability to hit through small cracks and Deep Wounds, neither of which are particularly impactful except in niche scenarios.
These changes are so unequal it is insane. It is like removing Oni's flick, but making him vault windows faster in Blood Fury. I really hope they reconsider some of these changes, because if he can no longer quickscope ON TOP of no zoning and no reduced TR, he needs some serious buffs in other departments so he actually has strengths rather than weaknesses.
Comments
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He wasn't strong enough to warrant nerfs period. At minimum he needed buffs in other areas to fully compensate for his chase being weaker. No one says DS is an OP killer.
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Isnt deathslinger now in almost every situation just an weaker pyramid? And pyramid has 115% and a second ability.
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I just made a post saying I'm happy with deathslinger. This some bsman.
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He needed some fixes for the non-interactive game play he had. However, the intent wasn't supposed to be an overall nerf and it was definitely a heavy nerf. If anything DS needed an overall buff. They definitely needed to give him more to compensate for what they took. Substantially more.
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Remeber, give feedback and do your best to not allow this change into live servers if it will be as bad as it reads.
I'm preparing my fingers for all the feedback I'll give on slinger changes.
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They allowed release Trickster into live servers. I don't have much hope for BHVR reverting changes they make.
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They did him wrong, next time they will make his spear go slower. If anything they should have just changed the time it takes to shot, so one can react to the quickshots which already is a 50/50 hit or miss. But the cooldown from aiming to M1, and his terror radius is a joke.
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It's all we can do at this point. I don't want to see him deleted.
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Essentially.
At a pallet pyramid head can:
-Cancel m2 into an m1 with minimal movement penalty
-Predict survivor movement and snipe them before they even drop the pallet
-Hit them after during the pallet drop animation
-Zone them after they've dropped a pallet and hit them while they are still stuck at the loop
-If he is not capable of doing any of these, he can just break the pallet and catch up 5% faster than slinger.
-Most of these also apply to windows.
At a pallet the new deathslinger can:
-ADS before they reach the pallet, and attempt to compensate for them dodging with his low sensitivity. Missing would likely mean being forced to break the pallet.
-After the pallet has been dropped, Attempt to drag them/yourself over to their side of the loop for a hit. Not possible at all loops.
-Break the pallet and attempt to catch up with a -5% movement speed penalty.
-Only the first of these applies to windows.
He is most certainly a worse Phead.
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Yh and then you have the cooldown. PH can spam, while deathslinger isnt even close with his best reload addons.
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That's only half the story. Pyramid Head removes the option of a survivor from dropping the pallet by putting his sword into the ground with proper timing then chase them as a 110% killer for some of the loop, and threaten corner shots. He can also shoot a survivor as he's getting stunned if you begin the command before the stun lands. I've had a Yui be furious at me at Cow Loop for pulling that off.
He can also react to animation locks and aim where they'll land, which is only counterable by Dead Hard.
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"No one says DS is an OP killer". If you have a peek in these forums or the reddit you will see a lot of posts crying about this B tier killer. I really don't understand why they are nerfing his chase power wich is the only thing he has going on.
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Eeeeyup. I didn't even begin to scratch the surface as to how much phead is just a better slinger after the update, now that slinger also has to "predict" his shots, phead outclasses him quite majorly in absolutely every department that requires predicting the range of their power. Oh and he can ignore hook perks too while hes at it.
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But you're forgetting Deathslinger's big strength - he has Deep Wound! Now that I've hit the survivor, I'll drop chase, reload, slowly walk across the map and - oh, they've mended already.
Healthy changes all around.
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Because there's constantly people complaining how OP he is in chases and how unfair his quickscoping is... because they don't know how to evade him well. These changes made holding W an effective counter... Just wait, with the Pig changes, she'll fairly soon get a nerf that will only activate traps if she's near a survivor exactly when a gen pops and activates the trap manually
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You can chalk this up to the devs not designing him properly to begin with. I do agree the nerfs make him terrible but you're also not looking at it from the perspective of going against it. Unless the Deathslinger is out of range, there's not really counterplay to going against him. You aren't dodging a shot, he simply misses. Meaning if he's good with shots fakes aren't the most effective, even when trying to break LOS (as he can just shoot you when trying to run past a corner).
It's similar to the Spirit nerfs in a way. Both killers had the design of being strong based on unfairness and balancing them out makes them substantially weak as their strengths relied on imbalance rather than strengths.
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The thing is, though, is that on paper he is designed properly. It's difficult to avoid getting speared, but that's why the reel mechanic exists - using objects around you, you can break his chain and make his spear shot not equate to a down, which is a balanced, deep and fun interaction.
The problem is that walking backwards while reeling turns this tug-of-war into a guaranteed hit for Slinger in almost every situation, removing this important element of his counterplay. It wasn't the ADS that was a problem, it was the fact that survivors can't move while being reeled in if Deathslinger's walking backwards.
If this was the thing removed, his chase would actually have a good degree of meaningful counterplay. But only someone who is somewhat experienced with Deathslinger really knows the effect of walking backwards, and as such many people who complain about him (who don't play him) think that this is just how his reel works, and so they complain about what they THINK is the problem, his ADS.
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For real though, I don't understand why BHVR doesn't just change the behaviour of how his reels work instead just nerf everything else about him.
I don't mind reeling without walking backwards. It takes the same amount of time as walking backwards, it's just that walking backwards SEVERELY reduces Survivors being able to move left and right. Which is what his counterplay is originally for. You position yourself around objects and Deathslinger tries to wrangle you away from it.
That was what he is supposed to be like. But of course like anything in DBD, people found a way to abuse a mechanic in the game. And now people think that Deathslinger is this somehow "nigh impossible uncounterable" killer when in reality he is just a B tier killer at best. While it sucks to maybe lose hits from time to time, I'd rather get that than completely lose this Killer I love playing so much.
Hell, I'll miss getting ADS shots from the second floor while dropping to catch a survivor who didn't expect a thing.
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We've heard kinda the same thing with Billy overheat and yeah...
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aw damn...
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His gameplay was definitely not non-interactive. That post was like reading survivor rank 20 baby post. the window situation he/she is describing is bad situation for survivor. The objective is to put yourself into good situation as survivor and to avoid.... bad situations as survivor. The whole point of his gameplay is to bait and predict shots... that is the whole mindgame.
The lower terror radius with M&A is desperate needed. For one it helps his chase efficiency because his shots initially are not lethal so his stealth first hits are very much needed and it helps his 4vs1 map pressure because it incentives survivors to heal to prevent being stealth 1-hit. It makes generators go a bit slower.
Everyone that plays deathslinger understands this.
Whats your thoughts on Plague changes Blueberry?
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"His game play was definitely not non-interactive. That post was like reading survivor rank 20 baby post. the window situation he/she is describing is bad situation for survivor. The objective is to put yourself into good situation as survivor and to avoid.... bad situations as survivor. The whole point of his game play is to bait and predict shots... that is the whole mind game."
I disagree a bit. The quickfire is fast enough that baits are only working on bad DS players, there's no reason to pre-emptively fire as with how quick it is you don't need to. It's basically the same philosophy as not committing a Demo shred until the window animation is started. With zero punishment you just can spam tap the aim so the survivors just randomly wiggling 24/7, that's bad design. Like I said before though, even though I wanted this changed I overall wanted him buffed to compensate so I'm not happy with their changes. I do agree though that their scenario was pretty hyperbolic and just presented a bad survivor though, not necessarily the issues with his design. I agree with you for the most part though.
"The lower terror radius with M&A is desperate needed. For one it helps his chase efficiency because his shots initially are not lethal so his stealth first hits are very much needed and it helps his 4vs1 map pressure because it incentives survivors to heal to prevent being stealth 1-hit. It makes generators go a bit slower."
I agree.
"Whats your thoughts on Plague changes Blueberry?"
Plague is weak so a "buff" is nice but honestly their changes are mostly irrelevant. She's "technically" better, but nothing that really matters whatsoever. None of her real issues were addressed. They're so minor I'd almost just call it a QoL change. It's just a bunch of menial numbers that don't really change anything. So good yeah I guess, but disappointed in what could have been done.
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I do not like how they took his unique terror radius and made him basic. Variety is the spice of life, and Behavior loves life with all the survivor favorites... So give us some spice.
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He doesn't have anything besides that "op" chase. No second ability, no map pressure and no mobility. If you want to nerf a killers only strength at least give them something in return.
Pig deserves every nerf she gets.
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What? I agree with what you said, but like, apply it to Pig. Ya dig?
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I'd honestly be fine with just the TR change. I'm not sure why they went so overboard with all these other nerfs like who even was complaining about him lol
That being said good riddance m&a deathslinger
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Um...They might be closer than you even realize.
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Yeah I see what you did there lol but for real I don't understand why he's always had a reduced TR. Like I don't get it thematically that's all, meanwhile stealth killers like Pig and Ghostface have a standard 32?
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The 32 meter terror radius was the biggest nerf and I'm AMAZED no one is talking about that. a 110 killer with a 32 meter terror radius is just abysmal. The terror radius is what makes him basically unplayable now.
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Because that is what people constantly complained about with him: How unfair M&A makes him and how chases with him are so 'boring and unfun' because cutting them short was his one strength.
Now he has nothing going for him anymore. They basically went down the checklist of complains made be people who refuse to change their playstyle when facing him and insisted on one O for ALL killers:
Killers they can enagage in long chases, loop and juke endlessly, who can be genrushed with gen's popping before the first hook etc. And... that's what they got. Wow...
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Okay but I still don't get how it makes sense for a tall, non stealth killer with ranged capabilities to have a reduced terror radius and get the jump on survivors the way that he currently does lol
Why not remove that and improve other areas of him? Again idk why they're nerfing SO much about him but so sorry got having that one gripe with him since it really makes no sense thematically
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"Plague is weak so a "buff" is nice but honestly their changes are mostly irrelevant. She's "technically" better, but nothing that really matters whatsoever. None of her real issues were addressed. They're so minor I'd almost just call it a QoL change. So good, but disappointed in what could have been done"
well, I personally think at least from my point of view is that plague's crosspath between Myers and Huntress where your either have a lot of instant down potential from broken status effect(with preparation requirements) or ranged power, but never both at the same time. No one really cleanses and stays broken at the same time.
Its that you never really excel at either and most players will either just want to play huntress(ranged killer) or just want to play an M1 killer with instant down. Who knows, maybe she gets some strong add-ons. Its just that playing an m1 killer against good loopers is not very fun even if everyone is broken. It just makes survivors stronger because of how powerful dead hard is as perk. The fountains are has time-waste as locker reloading from trickster/huntress and sometimes, cleansing doesn't really matter if you can't down people fast enough for generators.
So I imagine plague will just remain as a very unpopular killer as unpopular as demo.
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I am really excited to play Vanity Mirror Myers. that sounds like fun. Its going to be throwback to old freddy days with aura-reading with low TR.
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The reduced terror radius was always a bit of a head scratcher as far as I'm concerned. And frankly, you can still put MnA on him and get his old terror radius back anyway so whatever.
I was a bit skeptical about the changes at first , but since they seem willing to buff his speed while ADS is active, I'm willing to at least give it a chance. Because let's face it, repeatedly using ADS to keep survivor's guessing was a little to easy to zone survivors with.
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Simple. He *is* a stealth killer. A ranged stealth killer. Why do you think Marshal's Badge and Gold Creek Whiskey exist? To make him even more of a stealth Killer. Seriously, the man can punt his Terror Radius down to 12 meters without using perks. Sure he doesn't use full on Undetectable, but he doesn't to balance out the fact that he has range. So if you have Killer Aura reading you can see him.
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He's a ranged stealth killer. Thematically he's a bounty hunter, tracking down outlaws etc. So, as he was it made sense that chases are his one strength:
Once he finds you, you're toast. Your best counter isn't trying to run, it's trying to not have him find you in the first place. But people don't want to play stealth (against ONE single killer) they want their chases. So he now gets changed to something that thematically makes no sense for him.
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Gutting one of the weakest killers in the game. rip
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