http://dbd.game/killswitch
To those celebrating the Deathslinger nerf
If you go through e.g. Twitter, you'll find that those that gave him a bad name (faking ads, M&A, etc) are very much saying 'well, if they forced such a change we HAVE to play this scummy, we have no choice'.
So, yeah, the problems you had with slinger will continue to exist and likely get worse, because the things that got massacred now were not the issue.
But... congratulations I guess for driving away the few good slinger players?
Comments
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The people celebrating Deathslinger's nerf probably get dunked on by like every killer. Trapper and Pig included. They cheeks be clenched for them Trapper and Plague buffs, bruh.
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Eh, I'll probably go back to equally fun Hag, Doctor or maybe play around with Pig a bit, now that her addons aren't horrible (I'm saving up some particularly nasty ones :). Hell, maybe I'll just bite the bullet and focus on learning Nurse properly.
It's a shame that Slinger, and to a lesser extent Wraith got nerfed down a tier (at least) while not being particularly powerful to begin with, but it is what it is.
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Behaviour seems too concerned with making Killers fun to play against, less so to play as.
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Inb4 they nerf Trickster.
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Let's hope whatever guardian angel on the dev team who thinks Bubba is fun to play against keeps his integrity.
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The way they handled Trickster is the funniest thing ever to me. They made his general chase weaker, but made him even more oppressive at camping and downing Survivors in dead zones. I genuinely struggle to understand the thought process behind some of the changes that have happened in the past.
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He is also a complete pub stomper. I play with my girlfriend often who is now getting more obsessed with DBD and every single time Trickster joins the game she goes down in 2 seconds flat.
Mainly because she doesn't know how to dodge knives. And 6 knives is very punishing for someone who doesn't know how to play the game.
I'm not asking for him to be nerfed, but the reason for killers to be "more fun to play against" as a balance decision has always been ######### stupid, lmao.
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Remember when they gave Victor a 5 second CD for successfully downing a survivor to "nerf" slugging with Victor and gave no other compensation buffs besides that you can now move victor very slowly for 2 of those 3 seconds.
It didn't stop the issue at all and in fact made playing the twins and not slugging the worse option.
BHVR doesn't seem to understand how to fix these "killer problems", because they will sacrifice any fun a player might have with that killer to create a situation where the best way to play the killer is in a way that survivors still aren't going to enjoy playing against.
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You are trading 1 player fun for 4 player fun. Although I don't quite agree with it, I can see why its worth it for the devs to do that.
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Oof, yeah. One of the reasons I stopped playing Twins was because of that.
BHVR needs to understand that crap like this won't actually solve the Killer being "unfun" to play against. But just make them have less players in the first place.
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Oh, yeah. It made me give up on Twins, despite quite enjoying them, as I simply don't like slugging and I don't see why I would play a Killer that gets punished for using their power correctly, it's such a strange design choice.
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The thing is these changes are often a net negative for everyone.
Billy might be "more fun" for survivors to play against, but no one plays Billy because of how unfun to play he has become. So it just means that instead of seeing Billy as a killer in their games they are facing more of the current "unfun" killers instead.
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It got to the point where I only see Billy in low MMR when I play with my girlfriend.
And I get overly excited just seeing him.
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I don't know why they nerfed slinger but didn't do anything to hag. I think most of us agree hag games are a million times more sleeper than slinger ones.
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I mean. The majority of Deathslinger I get already play in a really scummy way. So it wouldn't make much of a difference for me if this is the case.
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Yeah sure I get dunked on by everyone because I'm happy he got nerfed, and even when I escaped vs slinger I just didn't find it fun because his counterplay is holding M1 on gens as quickly as you possibly can which as we all know is incredibly engaging gameplay.
I'm just bad for not enjoying holding a single button for 300 seconds I guess :/
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yeah, but the minority that tried to play fair might easily be gone for good till the devs do something worthwhile (and there have been good ideas in the community)
And for those saying they didn't nerf hag: just wait, it's likely gonna be her turn soon. Cause we can't have it that her traps mess with survivor's glorious chase-loop-juke-skills, right?
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Imho basekit Billy was more fun to face pre-overheat. The only thing that needed to go was insta-saw, everything else was wonderful.
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Those who celebrate the nerf are being a bit delusional
Not that much has changed.
The new ads sucks but once you get used to it there are very little shots you can't make that you could before.
And the zoning that people were complaining about can still be done thanks to the increased movement speed.
Just keep aiming and move to the survivor. They are still in a lose lose situation most of the time. And this time without the skill of no scoping. This is especially enhanced with addons.
The only real hard hitting nerf is the terror radius one but that can be easilly manipulated by perks.
In return he also has addons that reduce his stun to almost nothing.
I almost wouldn't even call this a nerf. More a side grade
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with billy (and bubba) they should maybe have it that the insta down only works if you run straight into a hit from a certain distance away (with billy) and have been going for a certain amount of time (with bubba). No more of the mowing people down through BT
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Seems that way. At least most of the time.
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Holding M1 on gens as quickly as you possibly can is a counterplay to every killer. Tell me this, if you find slinger unfair, then logically you should find unfair such killers like: Nurse, Blight, Pphead, Nemesis, Huntress, Trickster, Twins. All of them have strong antiloop abilities, forcing you to change your usual pathing and play in an unconventional way. Are they fun?
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Did I say unfair? I don't think those words were uttered by me anywhere.
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Sorry, I meant fun. Do you find them fun and engaging?
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Yup i completely agree with you.
To bad they don't realize that the more they do these things, the more they drive away people who play killer.
I usually play as both sides, a little bit more killer than survivor, but lately i don't feel the urge to play as killer anymore.
For me fun is being taken away more and more each time and never in those 5 years I've had this.
Give it a little time and you will get 1hr ques for survivor, no matter what you're mmr is.
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Shockingly, yes. Or some of them.
These are entirely my own opinion, based on playing as and against the killers, just for the record.
Nurse gives me feedback so I can react to her movements, giving my brain the thought process of "If I'd reacted just a little bit better I could've won that".
Basekit blight is fun, and gives plenty of feedback. Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer isn't literally only because of how much I've seen it. Alchemist's Ring is just crackpot strong, but even then it isn't the worst thing in the world.
Nemesis isn't fun, to me. His power isn't awful to face but it's his zombies that annoy me, as both killer and survivor. The map pressure of the guy is entirely based on RNG and a lot of the players that I've faced like to facecamp and tunnel at 5 gens, which isn't particularly great to deal with. He doesn't give me the good feeling of "I could've done better".
Pyramid Head is actually fun to face a lot of the time, because I can read them like a book. Mostly due to how much I've played as him- since I tragically main the guy. And in order to tunnel me through cages, they need to down me :p
Huntress is one more that gives very clear audio and visual feedback and leaves you ample time to react- since you know, she has a charge time, limited ammo, and takes skill to deal with even when her hitboxes are stupidly large. Once more she leaves me with the feeling of "I could've done better", which is a good feeling to have
Trickster isn't fun for me to face. He has the limited ammo of Huntress, as well as the feedback, but the basically zero windup and ability to machine gun in the open makes it frustrating. Trickster chases are either auto loss (open area) or auto win (high walls) with practically nothing in-between.
Twins aren't great either imho. They give feedback, yes, but Victor respawning in half a second and the fact that their best strategy of play is to solo stomp with mass slugging (since SWF teams will just group together, one goes down then the other crushes Victor and heals them up with WGLF; trust me on this since it's how my usual 4man buddies deal with them). They're far from the worst and when they changed Victor's pounce cooldown they 100% nerfed the wrong thing about them. I wish Charlotte would become a lot more useful at the cost of Victor taking a lot longer to respawn- and their anti-camp mechanic could use a lot of work. Maybe, idk, once Victor has been crushed, the survivor who crushed him is exposed for some time (this is an add-on I think) and Charlotte sees their aura/killer instinct as she's waking up. Maybe a speed boost instead/as well.
Either way, some of them I find fun and some I do not. Usually the ones I enjoy have a windup time for their power and feedback on what they're doing. Some have mobility and some don't- the ones that don't are the ones hit much harder by the M1 game and also the ones usually a lot less enjoyable for me to face. Unfortunately Slinger is one of them.
If I were to propose changes to Slinger- I'd keep his current 1v1 as is or maybe worsen it some more (this is a big maybe, it all depends on what he's like going into live) and give him much more 1v4 potential. I proposed a "Bounty System" somewhere in feedback maybe a week ago, and in a different thread allowing him to use his gun as mobility by lodging into a wall and reeling himself closer. Depending on how nice the devs feel, even allowing vertical mobility so you can swing from trees or travel upwards on indoor maps or something. I doubt any of these would be implemented but off of the top of my head, this is what I could come up with.
I'd like to once more stress that these are my opinions from my own time playing as and against these killers. Surprisingly the killers I don't enjoy facing are also the ones I don't enjoy playing as- maybe there's something going on there in my brain I don't know.
Sorry for the long response; I got a bit carried away.
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This^.
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> Pyramid Head is actually fun to face a lot of the time, because I can read them like a book. Mostly due to how much I've played as him
Same for me but in case of slinger. When people say he creates lose-lose situation, or that he's uncounterable in chase, I believe it comes from either being inexperienced in playing the character itself, or parroting streamer's opinion. It comes from experience, there are certain timings and in each situation you can predict when slinger is going to shoot. It mostly depends on player though, but absolute majority of slinger players are easily predictable.
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And I'm happy for you! I just, personally, did not enjoy him, which is why I'm glad he was nerfed. I don't expect everyone to share this opinion of course, and I don't expect everyone who is happy he was nerfed to agree with me on anything else.
People gave their opinions, I gave my own. We all enjoy different things and that's fine.
I'll advocate for things I find unfun or overbearing to be changed, and others will advocate for theirs too.
(its just annoying because I cannot find any enjoyment in playing slinger which is very deterring into actually playing him fully to learn everything about him. Of course people who do main this killer, or even just play him, will have a much easier time in facing him.)
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In case of Blight, do you think hug tech, 180s, shoulder flick are healthy mechanics? I'm alright with them being in the game, but since quickscoping now considered unfun mechanic, they should go too, because they have no reliable counterplay.
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Honestly not really- definitely not flicks, with the hug tech being the most okay. They make you have to guess which the Blight is going for- with hug tech giving the most feedback and flicks just... not.
But, it's also not the worst thing in the world. I can tolerate them, however things like Alchemist's Ring or the BasicBlightBuild™ are the really really annoying things I'd want to go. At the same time, of course, fix his collision so he's useable on Hawkins (rip), RPD, Autohaven, and Ormond. Everything being made out of butter is also in no way healthy for the game, since you can plan an entire chain of bump logic and then you slide off of one you shouldn't and everything goes to hell.
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This couldn't be more true. I don't understand the reasoning behind those choices. They are the devs, they can't be "biased" to one side but it surely seems that they usually fail to consider the fun factor on killer side when balancing.
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It's hilarious, because the change intended to discourage slugging, yet whoever was responsible for the Twins change likely didn't fully understand what the change was actually going to do, besides making Twins feel even more clunky. That change encouraged the slugging playstyle even MORE.
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this is what happens when Devs don't play their own games on a regular basis.
Twins, Trickster, basically 7/10 nerfs/buffs seem to be very conceptual, aka 'the devs THINK people will play like this, but they won't'.
Read up on Desire Paths (goes to the wiki article):
The devs are very much trying to discourage 'desire paths' in playstyles by blocking off everything but the path they intended for people to use. and if that doesn't work they'll close off that path and lay their own assumed desire path for people to use (which leads to the same issue). Likewise they will close off a desirepath that's trampling the flowers or a rabbit's nest, but in a way that only bars people that were already stepping around the flowers/nest, leaving those that intentionally trample these things free to go
deathslinger is a wonderful example:
They could have went and change M&A, one of the main issues a lot of people have with Caleb. That would have also solved a similar issue with it in killers like Myers.
They could have made it that his shot only goes definitely into the centre of the screen if you aim long enough. That if you shoot from the hit there's a bigger margin to miss (this is technically possible), this would have made shooting from the hip take much more skill and thus would have been more rewarding.
They could have made it that faking a shot too often in a row triggers an exhaustion animation during which you're slowed down signifcantly. (again, this is technically possible)
This would have paved the desire paths of a lot of good players properly, while discouraging those going out of their way to trample little rabbits. But no.
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Driving away "the good slingers".......yeah.
Power with 0 downsides and human reaction. Zoning, insta cancel, insta ads, almost instant reload with double add ons.
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Those celebrating the Slinger nerf don't know what they are talking about. Nothing has changed what was annoying about him: you still can't react to a Slinger who pulls his gun and shoots instantly, he still can keep pressing M2 for free zoning and his TR is so subtle that with M&A you'll still probably be shot before you even notice him. What BHVR did was just make him more of a pain to play as, and probably to go against as well because now his gun is unreliable on further distance, so Slingers that actually went for long shots will probably now resort to zoning.
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Relentless clicking of the M2 button while in chase could potentially lead to repetitive strain injury, the devs are just looking out for the health of slinger mains.
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I like that desire path analogy. Me and my dog ended up creating a dirt path in the park behind my house over the time because it was the most optimal way to walk through while the urban planner made a concrete path that nobody uses. I guess this is a pattern that is repeated in multiple disciplines where the one that "designs" something is disconnected with the context that it will be implemented.
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Who cares for slinger and his players?
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I disagree massively with this idea that people who celebrate nerfs "probably get dunked on by like every killer".
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That would be quite ludicrous reasoning for nerfing a killer. But it wouldn’t surprise me, it’s awfully obvious that the game puts survivors in the power role vs all but maybe 3 killers on the roster.
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Yes?
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To be honest this nerf will probably make him even less fun to play against.
- 32 meters radius, which means Starstruck will be A LOT more common and we know how much survivors love that perk.
- They didn't get rid of the stupid zoning, in fact, one could say that they buffed it by making him a lot faster while ADSing
- Iri coin buffed to 12 meters, you will be seeing a lot more and it will not be fun, believe me. I have been playing with current iri coin and it already is a powerful borderline broken add-on if you know how to use it, it's just too map situational. This single change will probably change the meta around deathslinger, and will enable some really campy playstyles..
This is overall a really bad and unhealthy change, they addressed everything wrong with him. If they wanted to get rid of the zoning they would have slowed him down after ADSing and kept his quickscope, rewarding skillfull play.
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With Nemesis I'd argue those saying he is MEANT to be a beginner's killer are spot-on. His perks and gimmicks are very much an introduction to the basic game mechanics on killer side, so I'd say one should look at everything about him some declare weak and strong from that perspective.
(bringing us back to the design vs desire bit)
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Personally I can count on one hand the number of Slingers I've faced since his release that didn't play scummy. So this isn't really going to change anything for me.
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You mean their "ring-around-the-rosie" game?
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Well duh, 4/5 of the gaming community is just more important than 1/5.
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And always remember the dissolving knives, or whatever mental gymnastics they use to justify the laceration meter going down over time.
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The nerf was so out of left field. This was one of the least problematic killers in the game. And they're absolutely gonna Ruin him, because some survivors kept giving the killer an option select for free and then complained about it. Or thought that they should be able to trump his zoning, which he needed because he was 110%.
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you.... seriously believe that THAT is how the communities demographic looks? You seriously look at Q times et all and go 'ah yes, verily, there must most certainly be 4 people uniquely and always playing survivor for every one person uniquely and solely playing killer. Why, am I not a mathematical genius?'
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