Thoughts on Cenobite now?
I'm not gonna lie, I had a pretty low opinion of Ceno when he came out. Rng chase power, high learning curve, chains made of paper, and survivors having so much influence over his power.
However, since I learned the box's spawn logic, shared it with others, and played as/ against him, I've had a slight change of heart. While his chasing power is inconsistent, his 1v4 potential is staggering. I've had games on *Dwelling* where a single gen couldn't pop because of all the chaos caused by the Box, Ruin, me chasing them, then seeing their location with BBQ and pinpointing the box's location... it just becomes overwhelming.
But what do all of you think? Anyone else have a change of heart? Think he's still trash or god tier?
Comments
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He still sucks because he relies too heavily on his box.
Without his box, he is nothing.
Nerf the box, buff his other stuff.
However the worst part is that he still can't come. Let him come :(
Post edited by Pulsar on20 -
F tier, no longer comes.
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Honestly I’ve been maining him since his release. At first I said he was the worst but I take it back. He is…meh. Still in the top 5 worst but he’s probably 2nd or 3rd. 1v4 doesn’t matter when you can’t even 1v1
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he does not suck as much as other killers. his 4vs1 map pressure is some of the best map pressure in the entire game.
Its just that... his 1vs1 is so bad that I am forced to use Engineer fang every single game to play him. I just wish my reward for hitting hard harpoon shots was more rewarding. Its a bit extreme when you need use iridescent add-on just to be remotely playable against good survivors on a killer.
I have not played such a heavy 4vs1 killer since the freddy rework pre-nerfs. Playing Pinhead is such breath of fresh air. The muti-tasking that pinhead has in his kit+intense prediction & aiming is remarkable gameplay. His gameplay loop is 10/10. If only his balance was a 10/10 instead of 2/10.
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His passive power is a bit BS to verse, I mean he gets slow down during chase for doing absolutely nothing.
Successfully Playing as him is strongly related to his passive working in your favor.
He is too RNG based and little skill for me.
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He still has no hair.
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He still didnt came.
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The passive chains only activate if all four survivors ignore the box for 90 seconds, which they can see the aura of at all times. Pinhead might have done nothing to trigger the Chain Hunt, but the survivors also did nothing. It's like saying that Pig's RBT's are BS because they can activate and potentially kill you without her doing anything.
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I understand how it works. The pig has to catch you, down you, trap you and cannot teleport to the jigsaw box. Not the same thing.
Also, trying to do the box in solo q, when Pinhead just teleports to the box, not even to chase you, but to just get you off the box is BS.
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I thought he was weak as ######### but I have grown to enjoy his play (as killer). I used just his perks with Lethal and did quite well. I would nerf the Pinheads with Hoarder/Franklins in some way and buff him elsewhere. His chain shot I just can't shake the feeling it's not good enough for how difficult it can be to land (especially on console). If they get rid of the BS hoarder/franklins they can reduce the time they get to solve the box and buff his chain shot. As long as bots can run that combo for free wins he can't be buffed in any other way.
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Honestly he great after the PTB.
Theres a bug when solving the box you get hit by infinite/way too many chains too often which breaks the game.
Other than that it's good theres a strong killer for a change, not every killer should be weak, plus seeing a killer use hoarder/Franklin's is great! But I'm sure we will nerf something so hes so weak he cant beat alot of players as per. Only nurse is allowed to be top tier apparently
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Did you ever play against Pinhead?
When he teleports the box is solved and disappears. There is no "teleport to get you off the box". Also survivors can hold the box hostage or solve it on a favorable tile. If you know where Pinhead is you can pinpoint where he will spawn when you solve the box and you have no more problem.
I think he is fine. I play him quit often and both his actual power as well as his passive are good. His normal power has interesting counterplay and opens many opportunities for mindgames, his passive is a good slowdown. Finaly a Killer you can run without Ruin/Undying/Pop and where you can enjoy some other perks.
Sure he gets a bit painful when you stack Hex: Ruin on top of his power. But Hex: Ruin is a problem anyway so that should not count. Ruins needs a nerf not Cenobites passive.
Good killer in my opinion. I like playing as him, I like facing him. Good chase music, good theme.
However he lacks his voicelines.
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I had a dream last night he came to me in a match. And now this morning I read this! Haha
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He's honestly too hard for the reward he offers. Hitting that chain is as hard as hitting a Nurse blink (imo, don't know if it's different for others) and what he gets is a minor slowdown that can be crapped up not only by the enviroment but even himself. Not even mentioning sometimes you have to hit it 2 or 3 times to confirm a hit, so yeah I'd rather just play Nurse.
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Pretty fun to play as, but he's easily the most annoying killer in the game to face for me. Hoarder/Franklin's Pinhead is ridiculously annoying. I also think he's pretty poorly designed in that he uniquely punishes controller players due to dumb keybind logic
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He gets a thumbs up from me. Not bad, nice gimmick, but no where near great.
1v4 ability is one of if not the best in the game. No other Killer has a certain way to pressure more than 1 Survivor at a time. Twins are good in their own right for making ambushes but need time to setup. Nemmy "can" as well, but depending on zombies is a waste of time.
Cenbite's 1v1 though, is a bit lacking. His chain just doesn't do anything in standard chases. He often doesn't gain any time using them in a distance chase. The time spent landing a chain could even be longer than the time he gains making it a negative to use his own power! But when you get into mind games Cenobite's chains can be rather nice, if the loop is short enough to allow it. Loops like the tucks in Autohevan are an example of where his chains are great. Those pallets aren't safe at all as once chained Cenobite can walk around the pallet to often land a hit. A few window loops tend to work out in his favor as well. T&L walls, if you mind game them, can be used to chain Survivors with decent effect.
But once Survivors get into the "just hold W" mindset and run away the moment you get close. Cenobite falls right back into being mediocre like a lot of other Killers in 1v1.
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Rng reliant and pretty average. Boring to play against too
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I have, but when he teleports, you leave the box unsolved and it respawns somewhere else. Am I wrong here? Because, yesterday, I kept getting teleported to, then he would leave me and the chains would still be active.
I certainly agree, playing as him can be different. But, I am not a fan of the passive abilities for doing nothing
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He would be really cool if he had voice lines
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No, actualy you solve the box instantly when he teleports and respawns somewhere else after 30 - 45 seconds. Only chains that where already spawning should still target you. Also of course he can still conjure his own chains to target you, the active part of his power. Maybe the Cenobite you faced used the add on "Impaling Wire" that spawns chains when you break chains on the enviroment?
I understand that you are not a fan of a passive ability. This is precisely why I hate Hex: Ruin. That thing can just chill under a stairchase in the saloon or behind a rockpile on Ormont and ruin the entire game just by existing. And Ruin on top of Cenobites ability is just trash.
However I like side objectives and Cenobite is finaly a Killer interducing a side objective that you actualy can not ignore. Because something like Freddys "Dream State" is just a bad joke.
Another thing I like about this power is that I can challenge the Cenobite for a chase by using the box or accept the challenge when a survivor takes the box to solve it. Far more fun than a clickering flashlight.
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Nerf the only good thing about his power? No thanks.
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Thanks!
Guess I need to put more time playing him so I can understand his power better. What are your thoughts on holding the box as survivor?
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My opinion is summarized in this video
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I wrote a large guide on him and figured out box spawns and consistent ways to use his power day one and no one believed me, and now everyone suddenly is realizing he is actually pretty good with a lot of interactivity and counterplay while still being strong. It makes me happy to see I was right.
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I liked playing as and against him.
Killers like Pinhead, Nemesis and Pyramid Head with more than one straight power make them more interesting.
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I feel like you didn't see the "buff the other stuff" part.
Here: BUFF THE OTHER STUFF SO WE DON'T HAVE A RE-DO OF DEATHSLINGER'S NERF WHERE THEY NERF THE ONE GOOD THING ABOUT A KILLER WITHOUT ADDRESSING HIS GLARING WEAKNESSES.
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Holding the box as a survivor is throwing the game for your team. It gives pinhead a lot of time to find and catch you, and it doesnt remove his m2 ability. Downing a box holder is extremely easy, and lets him start his snowball. Solve it the moment you pick it up.
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You don’t have to nerf one aspect of his power just to buff his chase power. That’s the problem with the killer balancing taking place today.
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Why is it easy to down the box holder? Because of oblivious?
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Shreds Solo queue survivor teams. Gets shoved in a box (pun intended) against coordinated SWF.
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Well, he'd be much too strong with insane 4v1 and good 1v1.
Something has to give.
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He’s in a decent spot already. No need to nerf his box/chain hunt mechanic.
If anything just make it so Pinhead doesn’t break his own chains.
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Never saw him as weak. I could tell he was a strong killer. He is easily one of the top 5. He can be annoying depending on the how he gets played.
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He's bad if he doesn't get his RNG power up, but there are builds that allow him to get it up consistently that make him insanely oppressive.
Remove the box, buff the rest of his kit. Remove RNG out of his chase power, (sometimes it just does nothing at all) make it more clear when he's using it for the survivor at the same time.
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let's see:
-Survivors takes literally few seconds to break free from his chains
-After hittign someone with your chain, you barely have the time to reach and hit that person, waste few seconds and the surv will break free before you can get there.
-Chains are high risk low reward.
-There is no reason for you to snipe from far with the chains, because you get no benefits(like longer time to break free from them etc etc), unless you use one addon, "original pain"
-He's extremely depended to the box.
-Lament configurations takes 90 seconds to activate, meanwhile survivors just need 1 seconds to deactivate it( atleast, whoever is carring the cube, still has to solve the cube to remove the chain hunt, correct me if i'm wrong)
-BH removed his voice lines, -10 points.
yep, he's still bad.
few words to describve him?:
High risk, low reward, less fun.
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F tier without a near constant chain hunt going.
S+ tier with consistent chain hunts.
He's my fav killer aesthetic wise but it either feels horrible to play as because I get ######### on and the survivors constantly grab and just hold the box, or, he feels horrible to play because I consistently keep grabbing the box and then the match is on easy mode.
His passive needs to be nerfed and his active ability needs a buff.
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He plays terribly, he feels like a worse Clown during chases. His chains don't do enough to warrant using them. They can't even prevent survivors from vaulting or using pallets nor do they actually work if you try to hit them during the vaulting animation - the hook will simply fly through them. What's even worse is how his ability doesn't even deal damage. He requires as much precision as a Nurse but gets so much less in return for actually hitting his stuff. He desperately needs better hitboxes and more buffs to his chains. Increase the slowdowns and/or force survivors to spend far more time on breaking free so that he can actually secure a hit.
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He is strong and theyll probably gonna nerf him soon. he can reach a very high mmr compared to most killers because of his good 1v4.
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He's still very weak. His power has little to no impact if you hit it in a distance, the chains are RNG wich is never good for a power (see pig).
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Pinhead is what all Killers should be, weak in chase, but have passive power that force at least 1 survivor to stay away from Gen. Of course if Solo comm is also a thing.
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Because chain hunt doesn't stop for them, and on top of chain hunt spawning chains, the box spawns additional chains. Basically a big part of pinhead is that during chain hunt his m2 is upgraded. Possessed chains always lands 3 chains, but during chain hunt it can be around 5 because the passive chains land much easier. It means looping a good pinhead (which is already very difficult) is even more difficult.
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He is a high skill, medium to low reward killer and he's another killer in the pile of killers weak to W. His chase is mediocre at best.
However, I am glad to see that his 4v1 can be powerful enough that it makes up a lil bit for his weak chase. If played at a very high level, it has some chance to do decently, which is more than you can say about many other killers.
So, if you wanna use a killer that needs a lot of mechanical skill and needs you to play almost perfectly to try and defeat a quartet of rambunctious teens holding M1, then he's a decent choice.
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His 4 on 1 doesn't matter when his 1 on 1 is so incredibly weak. He is very reliant on add-ons which means the ones that work best, Engineers Fang, Iridescent Lament Configuration and Torture Pillar are in for a big nerf for being to "strong".
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Makes sense, gotcha. So solve the damn box.
Another thing for those of us that put in work have to do in Selfish Q
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The only thing that keeps him relevant is his box.
His actual chase is extremely weak.
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His chase isnt actually horrible, and during chain hunt it is even stronger. Positioning and quick shots eliminate almost all negatives. There is still some RNG issues but those really only feel horrible on a couple maps, mainly lerys and The Game. The box is the key to his whole kit, but without chain hunt going on he still isn't bad.
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Right, which is why his chase just needs SMALL tweaks - nothing crazy to make him oppressive in chase. That way the box mechanic can remain untouched.
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The Box is a great power because 1 survivor had to go, look and open the box. If this is a smart survivor -- they need to find a good place to open the box, like a shack or some good vault. This all takes their time and lets the killer know where they are.
On the other hand, there are multiple perks, and builds synergies with his power. Everyone heard about Frankilins/Hoarder, but I personally like to use Brutal Straight in the chase: survivor is about to drop a pallet, I shoot the chain, survivor drops the pallet -- and I quickly break it faster with brutal while the survivor is hindered with chains.
Plaything works well most of the time, but it is good on many killers too. Good slowdown or "surprise b chess!"
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Why remove the box?
It is the first time a Killer has an actualy interesting slowdown power aside from Mrs Piggy. They should make the spawn of the box more random yes, mabye change how many chains get spawned by chain hunts if it turns out to be too much. Worst case you could even increase the timer after a box has been solved. However most of the time when you have a good survivor they will deny you chainhunt no problem.
Also while solving the box you have enough options to screw with Pinhead.
I would disagree a bit. While solving the box immediatly can be good, holding onto it can also be a benefit.
As soon as you have an idea where Cenobite is you can decide this. If you have no idea you should get to safe ground and solve it, if you know he is on the other side of the map you can wast a few seconds and then go and solve it.
The monst annoying way you can do it is if you know where Pinhead is and then try to solv it. Pinhead always spawns from the direction he teleports. I think it should be around 10 meters away from you and he will always look at your direction. Knowing this you can solve the box in a position where you are super safe and wast his entire power.
Hawkins lab and Autoheaven with the long wall of cars are a pain for me as Pinhead once a survivor knows how to control my teleport. I had a match on Hawkins where one survivor constantly got the box and solved it and each time I teleported I was on the other side of a long wall with no way to reach that survivor. I think he had a friend telling him my position but it was still greatly executed counterplay and made me loose tons of time.
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Cenobite is good only if you play with an "around the box build".
If you succeed to use the box like 3 or 4 times in a trial, everything go south for the survivors and they won't be able to do much. And so he is relying way too much on the perks and add-ons (Hoarder + Franklin + Plaything and Larry's remain + Frank's Heart).
The above kit works great against non SWF team at any MMR. It's totally useless against SWF though.
Summons of pain slow down has to be slightly increased + unbreakable with walls/objects to make it really useful in chase.
He is a fun killer to play with/against and brings some refreshing ideas as did the Pig, the Twins, the Plague and of course, Blight.
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