Boon Totems Or Old Undying What's More Fair?
What is more fair in you're guys eyes
Boon Totems or old Undying
I can't really say much cause I've not played the PTB but, I've seen the footage of the Boon Totems and I'm just curios on what the player base thinks is stronger?
Comments
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Boon totems aren't out yet, but I suspect they're more fair. There's quite a few hooks and eyes on the perk type that help tone it down, whereas old Undying was just a combination of fire & forget and RNG.
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Old Undying is more fair currently.
Sure, it COULD take 5 cleanses, but it usually didn't and you could ALWAYS permanently destroy it.
Boon totems cannot be destroyed and can always be replaced. The Killer has no way to stop them permanently.
Thwt being said, they are both massively unfair.
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It depends. If you just ran one hex (Ruin), probably Undying. If you run shaman builds or NOED, boon totems, by a landslide.
The real issue, in my opinion, is that Ruin is Ruin and therefore Undying gets a lot of value. I think the two boons we have are very strong, but at the same time, they probably won't be perceived as gamebreaking until we get an overpowered boon.
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Old Undying by a landslide. A lot of people that complained about old Undying's respawn elements acted as if every single game they were cleansing all the totems in the match. The truth of the matter was that 50% of the time, it behaved like current undying, and another 50% of the time, it took 3 cleanses which had a 50% chance of taking 4 cleanses ect. It also meant that if you ran a totem that existed at the start of the match with Undying, there was anti-synergy with NOED.
There are potentially 4 totems for the killer to juggle and they can keep coming an infinite amount of times, all while killers can't afford to be exploring the map. Oh yeah, and you can pick your spot whereas killers can't.
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Well said. Came here to make that same point about old undying but your comment covers that all pretty thoroughly
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I agree I think after the PTB where the undying nerf was being tested I was using the undying in it's old state and almost half of my games were me loosing undying first and I was like it really needs nerf right?
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I like Boon Totems, yeah everyone hates them right now, until the community starts screaming about how you shouldn't use them because you're not doing gens and how everyone is bringing Boons and not BT, or whatever.
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Based on what I've seen on the PTB its Boon totems by a wide margin.
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Ok, here's the thing. 4 perks from survivors = 1 perk for killer. If something from the survivor's side becomes ridiculous to manage if all 4 members have the perk, that perk is overpowered. These boon totems are limited in range individually, but can pretty much go through the majority of the map if 4 totems are lit. So, let me ask you. What's stronger? Ruin or devour without undying, or the option to get super self-care/botany knowledge or "aura perks don't work" paired with lucky break and the last 2 perks mentioned can come back over and over again?
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Old Undying is more fair because survivors can get rid of totems permanently in a match
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Old Undying was more fair. Was it overpowered and frustrating? Absolutely, and I'm glad it was changed. But the fact of the matter is a maximum of 4 cleanses and you'd eliminate the perk they were protecting for good. Boon totems are infinite. Do I think they'll be broken in solo queue? Much less likely, but I've seen the potential of circle of healing if a coordinated group works together with it. It's absurd, and the killer cannot permanently remove it. Old Undying may have been awful, but a dedicated group of survivors could in fact remove the perk(s) it was protecting. Boon totems are only temporarily removable and that makes them much less balanced in my opinion.
All it would take is for the snuff out action to destroy the totem, and at that point I think they would be completely balanced with hexes - both high risk high reward (assuming a good hex, some hexes are pointless) rather than low risk high reward, which boons currently are.
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Old Ruindying gave you Ruin for a really long time which was zero effort. Boon totems have to be reactivated each time they are snuffed, but they're still broken. I'd say they're equally as unfair.
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Boon Totems. By a long shot
People really like to downplay how annoying and strong old undying was.
People legit just didn't break totems because of how strong undying was, that basically meant permanent hexes for the killer which is insane.
Breaking totems as survivor is a lot more taxes than breaking totems as Killer.
You can easily defend your hex totem as killer, especially with old Undying, Survivors cannot defend their totems. Survivors also have to take ~20 seconds to rebuild their boon and it's only effective in a certain radius.
Baby Killer mains love to overplay Boon Totems, but they're not even close to how strong old Undying was.
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No one's downplaying it. Everyone listed exactly what the perk did.
Uh huh. And what happens when 4 different survivors bring boon perks?
This is factually incorrect.
The difference is that breaking totems as killer only takes down 1 piece of a a network of 4 pieces, and killer is objectively on a higher time pressure than survivors.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Good one. Why do you think people don't use Thrill? Meanwhile, survivors can just select good totem spots and have less of an RNG factor compared to the killer's iteration. 4 survivors with boon perks are practically covering the map. These perks come bundled with omega undying. Imagine Ruin coming with a free respawn, but worse in this case.
Sounds like you're the baby.
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So, do you think it would be more fair that Boon-Totems spawn at the beginning of the match, exactly like Hex-Totems. That Boon-Totems make sub-audible crackling sound exactly like Hex-Totems. Survivors can see the Boon-Totem, just like Hex-Totems. And that the Killer can break them, just like Hex-Totems.
I bet Killers don't want that at all, do they?
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old undying even as a survivor main i know that boons are unfair
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Boon totems are more fair.
The killer can find the totems easier:
- Very loud when your near them
- If your hex was blessed then you know it's exact location since you can see your hex's location before it was blessed
The other reasons I think Old Undying wasn't as fair are:
- Hex totem effects are map wide so having to cleanse 5 totems to get rid of Ruin was a bit much
- Slower to cleanse
- Aura reading so you can tell exactly what survivor is on your totem
- Time it takes to bless a totem
The only reason I believe they are even close is that Undying has RNG factor to it.
Just my opinion though
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As a person that plays both sides, boon totems are fine. Killer mains are making them out as if they are the second coming of Christ, just like they did "Lucky Break". And look how used "Lucky Break" is now. That's right, zilch.
Let me put this in context. Circle of Healing is a totem version of a medkit. Is any rational survivor, who is playing to win, going to give up Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, any Endurance perk, Unbreakable, Iron Will, Adrenaline or Prove Thyself. Why would you give up a perk slot when you can just slot an item for healing or walk over to a teammate.
Shadow Step may be used just because there are so many Killer aura reading perks and the only perk to address that on the survivor side is Distortion. But then again, a killer not being able to see auras, doesn't really handicap a Killer to much either.
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well it adds another thing killers need to do during the match as if they didn't already have enough they need to be patroling
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Seems better to me.
Random location, recognizable noises and I can permanently disable them?
Count me in.
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With what i have seen undying is more fair true you can have good rng but most of the time everytime you do a totem it was a 50/50 so by average survivor needed to cleanse 3 hex.
Boon on the other hand are op you can use your boon 99 times if you want that really strong.
If i think boon will replace the survivor meta im not sure because their meta is too good for any other perk to shine but if they can get nerf boon totem will be played for sure
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Uh huh. And what happens when 4 different survivors bring boon perks?
Easy, that's 4 different survivors not doing generators. A blessing at higher ranks. Don't killer mains complain about gen rushing? Now survivors have an excuse to not genrush and people still complaining. I would love to see my entire enemy team making boons instead of completing the objectives.
They have to find a totem, spend time creating the boon and then most likely run away to go do a gen, that's so much time wasted! And if I by chance find their boon, I'll stomp it out in 2 seconds. It's simple math stupid.
Killers are on a higher time pressure, but the survivors not progressing the game alleviates this pressure immensely, nobody said you have to chase people under the effects of boon totems, just don't chase them there and go chase somebody else, same Killer tactics apply here. If you don't think you'll kill someone, LEAVE THEM ALONE.
Why do you think people don't use Thrill?
Because it's trash at defending hexes. All it does is absorb time from the killer into protecting totems instead of protecting gens. We've already discussed why this won't happen if boon totems exist.
If your hex is going to die, then it dies, with or without Thrill.
Meanwhile, survivors can just select good totem spots and have less of an RNG factor compared to the killer's iteration.
Most good totem spots are hidden away and not in vital areas of the map. If they select a totem next to a gen, then the killer can find it easily. If they select a totem in the middle of nowhere where nobody can find it, then cool. If they want to go into the middle of nowhere to heal that's fine by me. People with self-care do that already and it's a blessing for me.
4 survivors with boon perks are practically covering the map. These perks come bundled with omega undying. Imagine Ruin coming with a free respawn, but worse in this case.
4 SURVIVORS ARE ABLE TO SET UP BOONS WITHOUT YOU NOTICING OR FINDING ANY OF THEM!?
Kinda sounds like you're just a bad killer in that case, how are 4 survivors going to find 4 out of the 5 totems in the game without you noticing ANY of them.
Even if they run small game or something like that, that's 2 perks out of the 4 they can bring dedicated to this meme totem build and that cannot be used against you. Think for like 2 seconds and you realize the bigger and bigger disadvantage survivors have to put themselves through to set up this doomsday scenario you envision every game to be like.
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Old Undying
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Boons are more fair. Old Undying was just passive totem protection without you needing to do anything as well as aura reading, and while yes not every time was 5 cleanses, it could still be multiple totems needing to be done before being gone, while boons require survivors to leave their objective to go do bones, while the killer can easily just play normally and destroy them when they come across them since it makes boons so easy to find. In the end, hexes will always be stronger than boons because hexes don't require any killer input, just the buff they provide. Boons require survivors to go find totems and do them and waste time away from objective.
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Undying involved literally doing nothing to get the value or full value from it.
Boon totems are strong too, its no denying however they waste time both in searching out totems and in blessing them.
In that regards boons are more fair. But this is dbd, whats fair and balanced is subjective and arguable for almost every aspect. Theres pretty much no point in arguing one way oe the other!
Hopefully the meta changes, for that there needs to be strong perks to replace the old ones.
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For a coordinated team, boons are going to be far more oppressive than Undying.
Cleansing isn't really going to be an option - not only is there only 1 killer, who is inevitably pressed for time as is, but unlike killer totems, they can be resummoned.
And that's taking the ridiculous 'stack a few totems and you can literally outheal the killer between attacks' videos out of the equation.
I'd predict that they turn out to be incredibly punishing for killers who struggle with map pressure as is, remain as they are for a few months (with killers saying they are OP, and survivors defending them and telling killers to l2p) and then receive a hefty nerf.
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Definitely boon totems are going to be way more unfair than old undying the killer does not have time to hunt totems. Honestly I think they should have left undying like it was or maybe nerfed it a little bit to where it would only respond like two times. But boom toes are infinite as soon as the killer stops it out you can just go right behind them and then line it back up. Personally I think this whole boon totem idea should not even be introduced to the game. It's not going to be good for killers at all or the game in general because if people are not having fun playing killer than they are not going to play killer and without killers there's no game.
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I mean, the powers that Boons give arent really comparable to a hex at full power. Let alone that they require survivors not doing gens/constantly refreshing them(the 7:1 ratio for snuffing out totems was already fair, it's now a 12:1 ratio, meaning for every 12 seconds a survivor is blessing a totem, it takes the killer 1 second to take it away, that's a massive waste of time to keep refreshing boons)
It has a massive negative effect on survivors, where Old Undying didnt. Worst case scenario, survivors needed to cleanse 2 totems to get rid of ruin. Best case scenario, they needed to cleanse 5 totems. To get rid of 1 hex. Let alone that aura's were being shown of survivors being inside the range and that this effect was kept in after the negative backlash up to 4,5 months after official release, when it finally did get altered.
The only thing that made Boons OP, was because the Circle of Healing aura effects stacked(which, as far as we know, was not intended, just an oversight). They are still strong, dont get me wrong, but Dead Hard and Adrenaline is gonna give more value than Circle of Healing.
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As long as survivors can keep reblessing the same totem after a killer snuff it out, boon totems will never be fair. This doesn't mean that Undying wasn't stronger, but at least cleansing totems would eventually remove the perks from the rest of the match.
As far as I'm concerned, boons are simply more unfair than undying ever was.
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Okay but let's not forget a few things:
Most Hexes affect the entire trial aka Ruin with its infinite range
Also old Undying revealed auras of survivors around dull and lit totems so it was even better at allowing killers to defend their hexes on top of already being a powerful slowdown combo with Ruin
Enter Boon totems which have a limited area of effect, require time to set up and can be destroyed very quickly by a killer if found.. I understand that it might seem "unbalanced" that they can put boons back up over and over again but that means that that person isn't on a gen.. And a Boon only affects a certain range around it. A boon in a dead zone isn't going to be very effective.
And again I keep going back to the point that this new mechanic encourages doing something other than gens. The PTB to live changes that have been announced are a good step in the right direction and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they get changed more but when I hear people say that Boons being reusable infinitely is unfair I just have to say like.. If they could be broken permanently nobody would run them because not enough value for that kind of temporary nature unlike hexes which affect the entire trial (Typically. I know some Hexes have limited range of effect).
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I think you are confusing FAIRNESS with BROKENNESS.
Boon totems are more unfair than old undying, but old undying was still stronger. Killers simply don't have the luxury of going out of their way to snuff out a boon totem multiple times in a match and it's not like boon totem effects aren't strong themselves.
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A 28 meter radius is a 56 meter diameter. That's a quarter of Red Forest.
Med-kits are the most powerful Survivor item for a reason, the ability to heal yourself on command is extremely valuable. That's why Self-Care was nerfed so hardly.
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