How do you make DBD into a Horror game?
Let's be honest here. Only newer players feel that the game is scary. I guarantee you 500 hrs players do not find the game scary anymore and just play for the thrill of being a chase simulator or playing a role that is much harder than all of FromSoft Games combined.
I at least want the game to be scary in higher or more experienced MMR Brackets. If you play something like Resident Evil 7, Alien Isolation and Silent Hill 2 & 3, I always find these game horrifying even when I finished them more than 5 times already.
With DBD Second Chance Perks are stacked multiple times per Survivors that Death/Losing is not big deal at all making the game an "Action Game" as quoted by Mathieu Cote in the Resident Evil Chapter reveal.
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Every horror game eventually stops being scary at some point.
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It isn't one. It's an asymmetrical PVP game of cat and mouse that happens to use horror icons and elements.
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Seconding that it very much isn't a horror game and nor should it try to be, it's a game that uses horror aesthetics and tropes for a fun game of cat and mouse.
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Ok, so this was a pain to find.
There was a similar thread here some time ago, and this is what I commented there.
My opinion remains the same:
There is an easy solution and a hard solution.
The easy one consists of everyone buying a time machine and returning to 2017. Problem solved, DBD is scary again.
The hard one consists of working with what we currently have. So, let us start:
1- Maps and ambience
We are starting with the obvious, and so I shall state the obvious: reworked maps are absolute garbage on every single goddamn aspect, this one included. Crotus Prenn is the best, yet saddest example of this: a map whose ambience was top tier got transformed into an empty wasteland.
My idea is simply erasing the stupid Realm Beyond and return the maps to what they once were. However, I imagine this is out of the equation to the devs, so we would have to work to make the garbage more tolerable. And I suppose it can be done, with basically 2 things:
-Fog: We need more Fog. It is an extremely important element in DBD, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, which somehow the game currently lacks. We would need something like this:
-Lighting: Lighting is something which, undeniably, got worse throughout the years. The Realm Beyond merely kicked an already dead horse. The image above shows what the lighting should look like, which is basically 2017 levels. Alternatively, the devs can bring this precious treasure back:
2- Killers
Next we are going to what makes the game truly scary, the killers themselves. And I think we can divide the killers into 3 types: scary, neutral, and not scary.
-Scary killers are the ones who are scary by themselves and do not depend on the maps for their spookiness factor. In my honest opinion, during DBD`s golden age of spookiness the scariest killers were Freddy and Michael, mainly because of how their powers worked. Michael still plays the same, so everything is okay with him.
Freddy`s scary factor came from the way he approached survivors, something that he now lacks. Give him his old power back and he can rule the Fog alongside Michael, in a spooky diarchy.
Other killers, such as Doctor, are also members of this category, but not nearly as scary as those 2 kings.
(Don`t question this image)-Neutral killers are the ones who end up depending on maps to be scary, such as Trapper and Hillbilly. However, keep in mind that those killers were designed with the old ambience in mind, and if it was to return I believe these killers would automatically be in a good spot.
-Killers who are not scary are an eternal problem, because not much can be done about them. Legion, Trickster, Deathslinger do not have what makes a horror icon a...well, horror icon. The ambience changing around them should make them somewhat tolerable, but the experience they provide will never be the same as the other 2 categories.
Not to mention that those killers are annoying by themselves, so there is that.
3- Survivors
The scary factor of the Survivor experience depends on the other 2 items, so there isn`t much to talk about here. However, something worth mentioning are the animations. Old animations made the survivors look scared are paranoid, while new animations make them look weird.
What should be done here is obvious. Revert it.
4- Menus
Last but not least, we have the menus. And they should return to the old style. Period.
If you don`t know what I am talking about:
It doesn`t really need to look exactly like this...but something close to it would be nice.
5- Final thoughts
And I believe that is it! Now, I`ve talked about what I think would be the best way to make DBD scary again, but this is all my opinion.
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I have never felt a horror game was scary after the first play through... So, probably not possible.
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While I don't disagree with those above, I don't fully agree either.
I try to inject a bit more horror by running unorthodox or thematic builds, like Plaything and Third Seal on Hawkins, Lerys or RPD. Things like this really change how the survs approach the game in order to win, so it mixes it up a bit and shakes them out of their complacency of "how the game should be played."
I also don't worry about second chance perks by not doing the things they're trying to protect against. So many of their meta perks don't help much while I apply pressure elsewhere.
Do I win all the time? No. But that's not the point. I'm kind of glad when they sort it out and escape my horror movie.
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- Bring back old fog
- Make some maps darker for survivor
- Change the models a bit
- I don't really like it that much but make the music less of a banging track and an actual chase music.
- Balance the game. It's sounds stupid but balancing the game would make it more scarier for the fact that it's less obvious who should win.
- This is just a thought but make killers do stuff while chasing, such as laughing while chasing you.
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I really miss the fog. It's incredibly boring and imo bad for both the "theme" and balance of the game for both sides to be able to clearly see across the entire length of the map. It encourages the hold W meta for survivors by letting them start running well before they even hear terror radius. And the more free map information is given via bright, clear maps, the more it eliminates any feeling of tension. There's no fear of the unknown when you see the killer from a mile away.
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Thats a hard ask where repetition is involved, nothing is scary once you've spent hundreds of hours exposed to that stimuli.
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I agree completely.
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Oh another "Nerf Survivors"-Thread which is disguised as a "Make DBD scarier again".
No game will become scary, you can play the best Horrorgame or watch the most scary Horror Movie multiple times and it stops being scary. Same with DBD, even if you manage to bring the "new player"-feeling back. Give it a few dozen of hours and players would not feel scared again.
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I love it. It meant more when survivors were scared, but brave. They were survivors. 'Greetings from the Fog' they say. What fog?
That tiny little wisp of smoke you see on rare occasions?
Trying new things is great. Games evolve. I get it...but what is in this quoted post is what made the game popular.
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Thank you so much! It is good to see that I am not the only one who thinks like that.
In my opinion, DBD's golden age of spookiness was in 2017, and it is sad to see how far it has fallen.
The game can, and should, be scary.
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* Darker, claustrophobic maps with low visibility. Some will hate it but the uncomfortable nature of not being able to see will help instill a bit of fear
* More/Intense jump scares. Loud audio noises and environmental effects
* Remove terror radius
* More gore/disturbing environments
Unfortunately, this is a meme party game now and I can only see it getting softer and softer, see Trickster, twitter page and coldwin rework.
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To truly make it a horror game, I agree the maps and ambiance needs to change. Update the graphics, and make everything feel like an actual horror game. Lighting is a major factor. The fact that you can see across whole maps, not scary.
An idea I've had before was making like a hardcore mode that changes how the game is played. Remove the red stain and terror radius, scratch marks, things like that. But make it to where certain things are louder, like foot steps, bleeding, lockers, gens, things like that. No perks or add-ons on either side. Just skill vs skill.
There'd have to be some more adjustments to make it balanced.
But I always felt one of the biggest things that made it not scary for me, is the fact that I can hear and see them from a while away because of the huge terror radius. That's why Michael is the best for being scary, cause of his undetectable status.
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It will never be a horror game as long as teabagging exists.
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I think it's impossible to make this game scary at this point.
Even if we remove terror radius from all killers. Even if we make thicker fog. Even if we make maps pitch dark. Even if we make killers have basekit devour hope with 5 stacks. Even if you make jump scares pop up every couple of minutes.
All that will make the game more annoying and not scary.
You naturally can't feel the terror sitting in comfy chair and playing a game when you already get used to all its tricks.
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I think we can at least try to make it easier to immers yourself in the game.
DbD will never be scary for people who do not want to be scared. However those who want to breath in the atmosphere need some, well, atmosphere to breath in.
Horror is a hard genre. You can see this by looking at movies: It is easier to make a good superhero movie these days than to make a good horror. I believe we both would come up with more than ten descent action or romance movies befor we even got 5 descent horror movies from the last year.
I agree with many points on this. The maps are sometimes not very good and are a bit of a wastland. Maybe we did not notive that through the fog with the old maps but right now you can see it. This makes maps like the Tompson House even more painful because they show you that the devs can make something that is not empty.
I disagree with your point about the light. I think bright maps can be scary too depending on the way they are designed. It comes down to how much you see and how much is obscured from your vision in game. The corn maps are a good example: They obscure the vision unless you are on a hill or some other high point. This makes for a more tense atmosphere.
For me Autoheaven is the worst example of this: The map is darker than any corn map, yet it is far less cool because you can see the Killer coming from miles away.
This is however not to discourage the use of fog. Fog can exist in many different shapes and not just as a dark cloud. White fog can be just as obscuring as any "dark" version. However fog offerings should overall have more meaning. Right now they are a joke.
The Killers overall are fine. Most of them are a good piece of art some even got better skins. Think about Hag with her Birch skin or Doctor with the Look See (crypt just know how to do them) or Blight. Yes, Killers like Deathslinger and Trickster are not that scary but we have to note that it is quit hard to stand up to a true legend of Horror like Myers. The latest addition, Pinhead, however once again is a pretty good one with the Chatterer skin being a very good legendary.
Killers like Legion are at the brink. Legion could use a better chasing theme and a better power. There is just nothing scary about a Killer who can not down you even thou he hunts you. Deep wounds is just not a scary status and mending is merely a chore to be done. Compare Legion to a Killer like the Plague who emits are far greater terror with her infection and her secondary power.
And some Killers are just oddballs. Take my favourite Ghostface as an example. I think he is a very good Killer, good power nice theme. However is he scary? There are people who get jumpscared and terrorized quit easy by him and some who do not care. Well, I guess those Killers are just personal tast.
I agree with the survivors. The models are far less paranoid and scary. Even thou the new wounded animations and walking cycles are better. Also the crawling is better however I would suggest that the steering should be reduced to prevent that silly spinning on the ground.
I would like to add however that we still miss one thing: Blood on the cloths. Survivors who start the trial should look more clean than those who got hit by a killer. There shoudl be a "dirt-level" for those occasions...
And finaly...well it comes down to immersion.
Sure it helps to turn down the lights and watch Halloween at night but if you watch it with an annoying goofball friend who will point out how unrealistic or bad something is every five minutes...well...then even this classic can be ruined.
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The reason the horror becomes far less effective is due to how predictable the game becomes. When people become familiar with everything, any chance of fear goes out of the window. That first time you played your favourite horror game or watched that horror movie is far more scary than hqving the experience all over again
Key to something having true fear is to make sure the player is never sure what will happen. Left 4 Dead actually did a good job of keeping replays fresh by introducing sheer unpredictability in where the hordes and specials would come in, and I think in Left 4 Dead 2 they even did some map manipulation.
However the game goes, the only way it could ever recreate fear is to create unfamiliarity: new, various objectives; traps; events that happen during the trial, like everything darkening randomly; Entity involvement on a larger scale; more creative add-ons for killer that makes the game less predictable; a mode with better rewards but forces players to randomise the builds; etc..
True fear comes from not knowing.
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You don't. DbD hasn't had a horror focus for a LONg time. I think if they decided to make any other media based on the lore it would be horror, but at this point it's an action PvP game with horror elements.
Cote said as much himself in the Resident Evil stream (the one that announced the chapter was coming, not the anniversary stream) when he introduced it as an action game. I think people are way too attached to the idea of this game being scary, mainly due to it's characters, when I don't think it can be. Familiarity kills horror, and this game gets very familiar very quick. You can have the occasional moment, I find Myers is still the jumpscare king, but the game itself isn't scary.
And in the current state of the game making "scarier" would make it unbalanced, and in general BHVR just aren't going to rework and add so many things. They just aren't.
Post edited by NomiNomad on1 -
I dont know, I have 1000h in the game and the grind still scares the ######### out of me
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Easy!
You make the killer the power role...
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The answer to your question is simple,
Step 1: You slam your head on the keyboard so hard that you get Amnesia.
Note that it is advisable to purchase a new keyboard before moving on to step 2.
Step 2: Play DbD until it isn't scary no more.
Repeat steps one and two as necessary...
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DBD is not a scary game. That's not why people play it. Stop trying to change it into something totally different. Want scary? Play Outlast, Resident Evil, and the multitude of other horror games.
Also fun fact, no matter how "scary" something is, if you are exposed to it for hundreds or thousands of hours it will stop being scary. That's just how the human brain works.
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The fog and lighting made it less scary, not more. With thick enough fog and dark enough moonlight, you were essentially invisible to the killer. Making the survivors look scared isn't going to make the players scared, so I'm not sure what you were going for there. The menu is also completely irrelevant to how scared the players are in-game.
As for the killers, that's about the only thing that can make the game actually scary.
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Trick question, the game is already peak psychological horror for casual players.
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Add skeletons and black cats and jack-o-lanterns and witches. 2spoop4me.
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I just play solo without meta perks and no items. And yes, i think we all can remember how scared we were in our first game. Sneaking around until the first killer found us, panicking and running at the map corners, dropping each pallet instantly and not looking behind. I want that feeling back sometimes. The closest to this is playing barebones, without any perks and items (solo, maybe only with kindred). It really sharps your senses. Same goes for killer btw, no perks. Try it out for a few games, it will make you better aswell.
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I already commented- But I am gonna add another thought. You bring up games like Alien Isolation, Resi 7, and the Silent Hill games. They all have something similar.
They're all single player. They aren't comparable to DbD at all, purely because they are incredibly different. All the games you listed are narratively focused single player games, two of them are first person, and the other two are survival horror. The only way their at all similar is some of the characters (Heather and Pyramid Head) and a general horror aesthetic. They don't play the same. They aren't the same type of horror.
Multiplayer games cannot replicate the single player experience. Especially when it comes to horror. Asking for DbD to replicate something like Resident Evil 7 makes no sense.
If you want to complain about Survivor meta perks, just complain about Survivor meta perks. There is no need to make this about 'making the game scary again.'
One last thought: Imo, Killer is nowhere near as hard as a large amount of FromSoft games (though they're difficulty is overrated too). And yes, as killer at least, I play at high SBMM.
Bloodborne manages to scare me more than any horror game though.
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Depends on the risk factor. The lower you drop that bar and the lower you make that risk, and the lower your stress while playing, the less scary it is overall. When you start taking away a players ability to respond, and correct mistakes, you veer into horror and rogue territory. If you can't get a scream out of someone, if your game is solid enough you can get a desk slam instead. Either one works.
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A whole lot of this. The reason Dead by Daylight isn't scary anymore is because the Dev's made it not scary anymore in an attempt to "balance" the game.
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As for this game, theres no way to make it scary due to it being pretty much a moba/e-sport instead of a horror game. It just has a horror aesthetic. At its core its just another Apex legends etc. When you factor in the killer can only face 1 person at a time, then factor in the low risk of actually encountering the killer...yeah theres no real reason to be afraid because there is no risk. At the same time as a survivor you get fed tons of free information on where the killer is, what hexes the killer is using, what perks the killer is using, and what power the killer has because they're designed in a way thats a bit too predictable and simple. You factor all that in together, and honestly...you got maybe 48 hours to a weeks worth of gameplay before the aesthetic of horror fades and it becomes another queue up pvp game like league of legends etc.
Of course they could make it scary, but looks alone are not what it takes to make horror. Risk, relatability, and unpredictability are key factors. <- This game is missing all 3 at the moment and based on its current trajectory its only gonna get worse.
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True but eventually that sort of risk just becomes frustrating. I'd rather have a fun game than a scary game
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Fair enough...but hey, at least we agree on a few points!
That is more of a "you" thing Orion, it isn't a fact.
Besides, most people here, me in particular, think that the old Fog and lighting made the game way scarier and provided a better experience, so...
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A whole lot of that would make DBD a much better game.
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It will never be an actual pure horror game.
i wish the focus would shift more to a hide&seek&chase/trying-to-end-chase playstyle instead of genrush&loop/holdW but that’s not what the community wants at all. Most want an action game, which probably is the reason why survivors seek out the Killer to then loop them instead of trying to avoid the killer.
as for atmosphere, fog and to some extent lightning should be reworked. Not saying it should directly look like in 2016/2017. and it shouldn’t make Blendettes completely invisible but it should create a more claustrophobic atmosphere.
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Also Sounds and Information. Before sounds were ominous and alarming when they needed to be, now all the sounds are just information. Killers like Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, and Doctor you can hear their power from anywhere on the map - ruins the whole ambience of discovering the killer.
The amount of information Survivors has leaves very little window to actual scare them, even without perks you get notified what gens are being completed, where the doors are, Survivors that get injured, downed, slugging, and being hooked. Even distracting survivors from being scared with giving them timing information. As survivor you are flooded with so much information that it you're distracted from being scared, and have far too much forewarning before a situation where you can get scared. Perks can just eliminate being surprised at all.
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I'm gonna hafta offer a slight alteration.
"DBD is an asymmetrical PVP game of Tom and Jerry that happens to use horror icons and elements."
I think that might convey the power dynamic and general vibe better :P
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If you faced Scratched Mirror Myers on Lery's over and over again it would eventually become dull.
Fear is a response to the unknown. Repeatable Scary and Horror elements just become mondaine over time.
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They can't
1. We're past horror phase long time ago
2.game doesn't have horror atmosphere at all lightning ,enviroment etc.
3.we have shirtless anime dude, elephant clown, bunny legion etc
4.killers are weak
5.none of killers are scary which hard to say but it's true considering they have a lot scariest horror icons of our childhood such as Myers, nemesis etc but bhvr was too afraid to give them cool and scary power so they rather made them a joke
6.people are getting more experienced as they play so it's normal they'll be less scared of dbd killers who might seem scary only to person with 2 hours into game
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I still play this game and let me say that ever since I've started in 2017 I'm still getting scared by the stealth killers even killers that have a terror radius. Mainly because I get jumpscared easily.
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I would do that Survivors not in a Chase would have a Smaller P.O.V to allow the Killer to Sneak Up easier,Lighting Change,& maybe changing how Terror Radius Work maybe make it like a Cone instead or only Injured Survivor can hear Terror Radius
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If I play P3 for 8 hours straight I bet you anything it would stop being scary to me. You cant stop the fear factor from going away.
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I know the devs have said 'no other games modes' but I think it would be fun if we had a game mode that was hard mode/ spooky.
No scratch marks
No stain or terror radius
Limited perk selection for survivors (no Spine chill for example) or maybe even random perk assignment
Darker maps
More fog
It would be nice to have the option to play in a more spooky/ challenging environment ^^ one can dream!
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