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What Does "Casual" Mean?

Forgive me if this rambles a little, I just want to be sure I'm conveying the topic I want to discuss properly, and I want to avoid overly-defensive responses from people who may justifiably assume this is a bad-faith jab about just wanting easy games.

So. Since the introduction of MMR, I've seen quite a few people complain that the game isn't "casual" anymore, or that they want to play "casually" and they're somehow punished for this by the MMR system. This confuses me, because I don't see how those two things could possibly intersect- if you're playing a game to chill out and not care about performance/winning, how could the MMR system be punishing you for it? How could you possibly end up having to claw your way to a win if you're... not playing to win?

I'd very much like to hear how people who feel this way define "playing casually", in as much detail as they're comfortable with. I quite genuinely want to get a better understanding of this side of the argument, so if we could keep it civil and keep snarky comments about the game/it's balance to a minimum I'd definitely appreciate it!

Comments

  • Nayru
    Nayru Member Posts: 567

    survivors stuck in low-end mmr with potato teammates that get them killed constantly since killers are very favoured at low skill play

    killers at mid+ mmr getting significantly more consistent survivors that've figured out to hold m1 on a gen if killer isn't imminently threatening them

    either way, the capacity to screw around and the fun has drained for a lot of people, even if before's matchmaking was just a partial filter for low-end players and very inconsistent generally from my pov of playing both sides (far more survivor now though.. sheesh) before was generally far more tolerable

  • GuyFawx
    GuyFawx Member Posts: 2,027

    casual means a game where your not sweating it the moment a team member goes down.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,970

    I suppose I empathise with that, but if you're screwing around surely that means you're accepting that you're probably going to lose? That was the case before SBMM too, after all, I don't see how that's changed at all. Hell, the solution to this problem is also completely separate from MMR, so I suppose that people just aren't correctly identifying the source of their problems? I'd believe that.

    But why would you start sweating if you don't care about winning and you're just there to have fun?

  • GuyFawx
    GuyFawx Member Posts: 2,027

    Its all about stress management you can usually tell what type of job a player has in how they handle the stress in gaming

  • Nayru
    Nayru Member Posts: 567

    you misunderstand, you find out you can screw around when you get 2-3 hook states (or god forbid more) in the first minute of the game with nobody on a gen

    this is a bit of an exaggeration but by the end of your first chase you generally have an idea of what the doomsday clock is set to, and ever since sbmm as with the pig's rather oppressive addon, the timer is almost always tampered with

    if you start out screwing about with a bit of a meme build you never really know what you're going to get but in sbmm it's a large quantity of rating loss that will still have you going against 'hold m1 until they force me to deny the grab' gamers for far longer than you'd expect

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,970

    So it's less about going into the game with casual mindset, and more about finding that they don't have a huge stomp early on that allows them to goof off anymore?

    Hmm... I suppose I can see where they're coming from, even if I don't agree.

  • Nayru
    Nayru Member Posts: 567

    my biggest irritation is that there's far more cases of people being left to second stage by adamant genrushers that trade someone's state for two gens popping --> one gen left or something akin to that

    and then because they gave survivors perfect hook state information but expect killers to be robots or just not care about stages ever i find myself punting people out of the game WAY earlier than they should've been in a matches i've determined i have no chance of losing so do not feel the need to gank someone out of it 2.5 minutes in and would've left them on ground or dropped them if i realized they were death hook when they really shouldn't've been

    they're never going to give the killer any agency in this regard despite very clearly being mechanically the allower of access to chases/unhooks/stealth/like.... playing the game itself

  • ChiSoxFan11
    ChiSoxFan11 Member Posts: 1,093

    Casual for me means that I'm playing to have fun, and whatever happens, happens. It doesn't mean that I'm not trying to win, though.

    Casual is when I run a Slippery Meat/Up The Ante/Salty Lips Kobe build with my friends to see if we can make that goofy build work (spoilers: it has!) or running Blast Mine, just to keep calling out, "Kick the gen, kick the gen, kick the gen ... yes!" over and over again during a match (add in Red Herring for addition goofy synergy). Non-meta builds, trying new things on Killer that I wouldn't normally play (I've been trying a ton of Adept challenges lately, and the many I've gotten have been so satisfying, they've made up for the matches I was crushed in other tries by meta-perk survivors), and even embracing the memes when I play the Pig (you boop, you live -- no exceptions). I downed someone in a match near an open exit gate tonight that would have been the 3K in a Huntress match, but I let them crawl out when I could have easily killed them -- I thought they'd earned the escape and the extra kill just didn't mean anything in the big scheme of things (and it hopefully was appreciated by the survivor, who'd played very well throughout). All of those examples are casual play in my eyes, and all of it is about having fun first.

    It doesn't mean I don't run sweaty builds on both sides quite often, and I end up with equally sweaty builds against me just as often in those instances. While those matches can still be fun (the 3-person SWF flashlight/sabo bully squad I 4K'ed as Freddy the other night, I probably needed a shower afterwards, but it was still fun, mainly since I came out on top, lol) - well, that's obviously me NOT being casual. But I think you can play both styles depending on your mood at the time, but you do need to expect that, the harder you go out in a match to win, the more likely you're going to face similar people with similar intents, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that challenge.

  • Clowning
    Clowning Member Posts: 886
    edited October 2021

    I mean, it's pretty much been already said - To a large degree the casual argument is more or less a cope for people who don't want to reach a certain level, while still getting free wins. That's definitely true for many people. However, I think there's another layer to this. 

    For example, as a Killer, there's certain things you can do that greatly increase your chances of winning, and by winning I mean the community accepted definition of three or more Kills. I can force three gens, I can come around hooks and slug the unhooked person after 12 seconds, I can effectively tunnel a single Survivor out of the game to increase my chances of winning, I can Michael Jackson my way to ever generator to fool spine chill and so on. All of these tactics are somewhat boring and many of the things you can do to increase your chances of winning aren't entirely fun. The fun is in the chase, in outsmarting people, in landing some sick hatchets and the like. 

    In other words, the game is best enjoyed casually. More than that, at a certain Skill Level, it is no longer beneficial for you or the other side to play in a way that encourages skillful play, because it is more effective to play in a way that decreases how much skill each side can even showcase to begin with. What I mean by that is that it is way too beneficial for Killers to tunnel and camp and it is way too beneficial for Survivors on comms to just drop all pallets and hold W towards sections of the map where gens have already been done, just to waste enough of the Killer's time so that other Survivors can slam gens. None of these tactics are interesting to partake in or to watch. 

    I don't think you'll get a definitive answer that would satisfy you, because there really isn't any. Frustration is, in a way, part of Dead by Daylight's design, a lot of things are unfair and effective play isn't entertaining. Perhaps most importantly of all, playing "casually" isn't rewarded, play an M1 Killer for a day without using any advanced tactics and you'll get taunted left and right, at every pallet, at every loop, in nearly every post game discussion - That's not to turn this into another discussion about toxicity, rather I'm trying to highlight why many people get upset when they're not playing in a way that absolutely demolishes the other side.

  • Kalinikta
    Kalinikta Member Posts: 709

    When you play a game, even casually does not mean you simply throw up your hands at the start and go, now destroy me!

    People confuse the idea of wanting to win, or at least have a chance of winning and not being completely demolished being mutually exclusive with being casual. Just because people want a match where even if they aren't being 100% efficient, with the best perks, items, addons, offerings, etc. Does not mean that they are wanting to have zero chance of winning. They might be fine with losing a match, but that doesn't mean that they want that to be the only possible out come.

    It is a different type of game, it is how the match goes rather than just the outcome. Even if you are competitive, losing is part of a game and each person seeks to have a challenge at their own level. There are actually very little people that just always want to crush each and every single game, true competitive players seek worthy opponents that can give them a run for their money.

    Most people simply want a chance to win, some in a more casual mindset and some with a more competitive one.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,970

    The sticking point there is that if you're going in with the intent to try and win, that's not casual, that's you approaching the game on a competitive level. I absolutely empathise with not wanting to bring the same specific build over and over again, but neither MMR nor the concept of playing casually enter that problem at all- that's an overall balance issue with the game.

  • SlothGirly
    SlothGirly Member Posts: 1,146
    edited October 2021

    sbmm generally prevents you from playing casually, casually being not playing to the best of your abilities. Just leaning back and chilling. However given how mmr is, you're most likely at a level where if you do try to relax you get stomped. If you're a killer, you maybe get one hook the entire game. Or as survivor you go down fast and your team crumbles. In situations like that, are you really having fun? There's a difference between not caring about a win, and not getting to play the game. Which is a difference many, many people seem to not realise. The game doesn't allow for you to relax without getting your teeth kicked in.

    When I play killer for fun, I atleast like to get a few hooks, maybe 5 or 6. Perhaps even a kill. But when you struggle to get even one hook through an entire match, that's not enjoyable. There's nothing enjoyable about op items, predrops and meta perks when you're taking a chill pill. But that's what you gotta deal with. To the point where when you want to sweat it out again, youre probably lower in mmr where you will just stomp survivors who are chilling.

  • Kalinikta
    Kalinikta Member Posts: 709
    edited October 2021

    You miss the point, just because when people play a game and would want the chance to win it... doesn't mean that they are competitive.

    Playing to lose isn't casual, it is masochistic. I play games for my enjoyment, I try to win... but that doesn't mean I go out of my way and use everything in my power to do so. I also make choices based on my playstyle and yes sometimes that ends up in me losing the game. Being casual means that you willingly and knowingly don't always make the most optimal play, because you are casual... it doesn't mean that you are trying to lose. It doesn't mean you go out into the game to be destroyed...

  • illusion
    illusion Member Posts: 887

    That's not what casual means, that is just an idea that you made up in your head. Winning and being casual are not mutually exclusive. They still want the chance to win. They just don't want to have to play sweaty and worry about having all of the meta perks, and items, and such. They don't play 8-10 hours a day. They haven't leveled all of the characters to have all of the meta perks. They can't loop well, etc... They just want to have fun when they play. Being placed against try hards with all meta perks and items, is not fun.