How can people defend BHVR right now?
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For people who want some data more specific to NFTs and their specific ecological impact in the Ethereum network: https://github.com/kylemcdonald/ethereum-nft-activity
NFTs are not, have never been, and are unlikely to ever be divested from the ecological impact of mining and storage on the blockchain. It's an intrinsic part of the model, and any claim otherwise is either ignorance or made in bad faith.
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When talking about money, there is very little that doesnt contribute to destroying our planet
NFT's are just something else to add to the list
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Za Gamerz™ happily support Ubisoft, the r*#$ company, so...
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"For profit company does (most likely contractually obligated) deal for profit. Consumers outraged. More details at 6."
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I think the problem is they are very, very secretive of the actions they are taking, leaving the survivors and killers sitting around waiting to see what other drunken coding rampage that might come around.
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People are ######### morons. People don't want to have to think or make moral choices, they just want to play game think about nothing. Finally some stupid mother ######### absolutely gor suckered into this Pyramid Scheme, spent way too much money on NFTs and HAVE to defend them because they don't want to come to terms with reality. Oh and people LOVE to be contrarian and act like they're free-mind thinkers.
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"Consumer pretends that a contract can't be disagreed with, objected to, or protested, while praying to Lord Profit. More details pretty much every second."
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I'm amazed at all the people using this as a defense. "It was most likely needed to get pinhead.
Yeah? Then guess what I DONT WANT PINHEAD!
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man i wish the community would forget the war and go back to complaining about bugs
oh wait my bad that's a feature :)
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I see what you did there. You took what I wrote, then you projected your own feelings and assumptions about my beliefs into it in an attempt to mock me. Wow. Aren't you just creative!
This is capitalism. Just because I'm not getting outraged that a for profit company is screwing over the environment to pad their pockets doesn't mean I agree with them or pray to "Lord Profit" as you oh so brilliantly wrote. Get over yourself.
If people are going to flame BHVR, at least don't be disingenuous while you're doing it. BHVR never lied or misled you. They simply never cared to include your in the process. This is true of most companies. With a lack of information, people formed their own conclusions, and when they proved to be false they got into their feelings and looked for someone or something to blame.
I am all for people protesting this game if you believe the company no longer stands in line with your beliefs. But please stop acting surprised that a for profit company makes decisions with respect to their bottom lines and not their moral compass.
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Agreed. Ever since the whole removing of the voice lines, BHVR seems to be walking on eggshells around the issue of Pinhead. I wonder if the the entire truth will ever come out.
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I see no reason to attack them honestly
I doubt every employee supports the NFT thing
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Fun lil hypocrisy in both your posts so far :P
Let's break the first one down: "For profit company does (most likely contractually obligated) deal for profit. Consumers outraged. More details at 6."
"For profit company does ... deal for profit" - While I'm sure some people are acting surprised, I'm not, and most people here aren't. BHVR is a pretty scummy company that operates with no real competition in their niche. Pretending that 'people are just in their feelings about this' is textbook disingenuous projection.
"most likely contractually obligated" - This is simply a non-sequitur, and a non-starter as far as a cogent response or assessment. Contracts are agreements: they get reviewed, edited, revised, and generally agreed upon. In this case, the purported price was access to the Pinhead license, and the cost was either larger than BHVR execs realized, or they knew what was going to happen which is what led to this ass-backwards media spin because they chose obfuscation over true deniability. Whether you want to be honest about it or not, BHVR was talking through both sides of their mouth about this entire debacle - their PR team spun and misled people, and people within the company itself are feeling betrayed, whatever you say to yourself.
The general pretense in both your posts that people are just blowing hot air is just dishonest. Some of the most diehard devotees of the game are leaving - this is the first time boycotts are seeming serious, and in the wake of a substantial loss in playerbase following the release of SBMM.
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Yeah I won’t assume they all are guilty but it’s still not good.
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NFT's are as much as a scam as the art world is. And the environmentally harmful argument is more on governments refusing to use clean energy sources. If governments pulled through 10 years ago and started replacing coal power plants with nuclear power plants, there was no environmental argument to be held here. The best the people who use the electricity to create blockchains and prove of stake/prove of work can do, is make the process more efficient and consume less electricity. But that doesnt take away that the governments are responsible that electricity is mainly carbon fueled in the first place.
And before you try to argue, all total disconnects on DBD has had a bigger carbon footprint than NFT's. Because you had to connect to a server that was idle, and taking a server from the idle state to an active state will increase it's carbon footprint.
If you think art is a scam, yeah, you'd be correct, art is incredibly overinflated, with people literally recieving millions of dollars for taping a banana to the wall. But that is more upon the license holders of Hellraisers than BHVR. You can be somewhat mad at BHVR for supplying the license holder with the content that they owned. There are plenty of companies that would have turned it into an NFT anyway. BHVR would still have helped creating that NFT because they created the 3d models. Would you still be mad then? All they did was help convert the file after creating the models. And the models were created for the game. It's Boss Productions that wanted to claim the models back to sell for NFT's. And they would have all the legal rights too. So regardless of the situation, the only extra thing BHVR did to help was convert the files. They could have converted the files somewhere else, and BHVR would still be blamed.
If you're gonna be pissed about something, at least be rationally pissed at something. And sure, perhaps BHVR only could get access to Hellraisers in exchange for the NFT models and codes. In which case, you should still focus most of your anger more towards governments and the art world in general, but then at least you can be slightly pissed at BHVR for conforming, for good reason.
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sigh
You strike me as a fairly intelligent individual. I get the feeling, however, that without a representative from BHVR present you want to paint me as some BHVR shill to have someone to be the antagonist in your verbal sparring session. 😐️
"While I'm sure some people are acting surprised, I'm not, and most people here aren't. BHVR is a pretty scummy company that operates with no real competition in their niche. Pretending that 'people are just in their feelings about this' is textbook disingenuous projection."
You are misquoting me. I don't know if it's intentional or not, so I'm not going to assume either way. I'm not pretending people are in their feelings, people ARE in their feelings. They FEEL outraged. They FEEL disappointed. You said BHVR is a pretty scummy company, is this something you already knew from before? Or is this something you are just now realizing due to this whole NFT ordeal?
To be absolutely clear, the 'in their feelings' phrase came about from my personal observation that a lot of the outrage seems to be coming from people who made assumptions about two tweets - and when their own personal assumptions were proven incorrect (or incomplete) decided to act as if they were the victims of some Machiavellian lie.
Recently there’s been some talk about NFTs, so we wanted to clear some things up: When we work with our licensing partners, we provide them with in-game models as well as Chapter keys. They are free to use these however they see fit as the rightful owners of these characters.
To be very clear: There is no exclusive in-game content linked to these models when they are distributed outside of the game in any way. We hope this clarifies some of your questions and doubts.
Nowhere in those tweets do they say that they weren't supporting NFTs. Nowhere in those tweets did they say they didn't work with them. They gave a non-answer to the question. Maybe they just didn't feel like we had a right to know. Maybe they didn't care. Maybe they legally couldn't say anything else. Who knows. My only point is that people read what they wanted to read into those tweets, ran with it, and then went on to say they were lied to. As if BHVR outright said "We have nothing to do with this" and then later said "We did this." If you have some source where BHVR outright lied to us (e.g. the people who buy these NFTs get to unlock the voice for Pinhead), I will gladly stand corrected.
This is simply a non-sequitur, and a non-starter as far as a cogent response or assessment. Contracts are agreements: they get reviewed, edited, revised, and generally agreed upon. In this case, the purported price was access to the Pinhead license, and the cost was either larger than BHVR execs realized, or they knew what was going to happen which is what led to this ass-backwards media spin because they chose obfuscation over true deniability.
Fair point. I gave them too much credit on the contractual side. Maybe they knew or maybe they didn't realize the extent of their contractual obligations. Either way, they agreed to it and are liable for all of the blow-back. They put their bottom line first - like most companies do.
Whether you want to be honest about it or not, BHVR was talking through both sides of their mouth about this entire debacle - their PR team spun and misled people, and people within the company itself are feeling betrayed, whatever you say to yourself.
Again. They weren't talking through both sides of their mouth - they barely talked at all. The little scraps of information we did receive were non-answers.
The general pretense in both your posts that people are just blowing hot air is just dishonest. Some of the most diehard devotees of the game are leaving - this is the first time boycotts are seeming serious, and in the wake of a substantial loss in playerbase following the release of SBMM.
Scummy companies will do scummy things. The majority of companies put money before morality, and this is what we get.
I've seen "gaming boycotts" before. I remember when people were going to boycott Left 4 Dead 2 because of something Valve did (I can't quite remember). Then on release day, the most vocal people who were screaming about being outraged were screencap'd as all playing the game. If this boycott is serious, then GOOD! I'm all for it. Companies don't react to outrage unless it hits their pockets. I hope everyone who posted saying they were done follow through. If you don't, you only prove them right, and make them less concerned about whatever their next scummy move is. If you don't follow through, then yes, you were only blowing hot air.
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Vast number of people here didn't even know what NFT was before this. I for one sure as ######### didn't. For what research I've done, its just a scam anyways and only fools would buy into it.
As for the current outrage. I think a lot of it is faux and people are just jumping on the bash bhvr bandwagon. Bitcoin is a monster power consumer and Steam was one of the first platforms to accept it. They did stop accepting it but that was due to the value fluctuations. Where was the outrage towards Steam? But now Steam is the saver that will smite bhvr.
Steam is not banning NFTs for the enviroment. Its because of legal/politcal fears down the road. For those saying Steam will make an example out of DBD, there are games with NFTs on Steam right now still opperating. Also dbd itself doesn't have NFTs in it. If they do start adding it, then you have a case but right now no.
All in all this is the price for the Hellraiser license. The constant begging for license content without realizing strings will be attached. The contract will benefit both sides and if license owner wants something its hard to say no without losing it. In this case, the license owner wanted to sell the Pinhead model as part of the deal. (Have fun with something anyone with Blender can have.) The 10 DLC keys being given out are just that, keys to the DLC any of us can buy off Steam. No special in-game stuff along with it.
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I'm not misquoting you at any point, kiddo - and while I thank you for your candor and consideration, I'll be the first so say I'm not intelligent. Don't give me too much credit :P
Yes, people are in their feelings. I paraphrased your (continued) insinuations that people are just in their feelings - that the outrage isn't something of tangible value here, through your initial disparagement to your current "what can you do?" rhetoric.
Yeah, I knew BHVR wasn't great before all this. It was never this level of bad, to my knowledge, but their practices and policies have never been consumer-focused - which even shills for unfettered capitalism (not saying you are one, to head off that potential miscommunication) can often agree is a red flag. Consumer and feedback-oriented companies tend to survive and adapt better to changing market values and market value, even with an eye to their bottom line.
Those tweets, however, aren't any absolution for BHVR. The initial response is a clear distancing maneuvre, regardless of those who would prefer to take it literally and ignore context. Yes, it's a non-answer, but it's a directed non-answer, and a fairly transparent ploy to anyone who's worked in or around marketing. The most recent tweets, which probably were contractually obligated to a degree, are an official stance supporting and advocating their partnership and work with Boss - even if BHVR could be said to have done no wrong, that positive association is a damning one.
On our pithy initial comments - I was honestly having fun, and you were the target of a generalization. I maintain the generalization, while hyperbolic, carries truth - but the personal implication wasn't inherently necessary. Sorry if offence was taken.
I do think many gaming boycotts fall through. I know some do see success. I don't know which way this'll go, but I'll not have my Hope Devoured just yet.
I'm sincere about my own (and whatever level others can feasibly support) boycott. I can reasonably deny them my money, and I refuse to deny this issue my time.
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You are kidding right? Don't tell me you just think it's evil oil and hair spray lol.
Every single company on earth produces enormous amounts of CO2 emissions and chemical waste.
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Sheep. That's how.
Being a sheep and pretending that they are not dealing with some ######### up things.
Before I even got to work today I just read that some greedy ######### who makes their own NFTs partnered with another stupid ass NFT company that Boss Protocol likes just to make an incredibly expensive bottle of campaign.
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BHVR is a company, not a person. Nobody is attacking any individual solely on this.... so tired of people conflating outrage at a corporate entity with harassment at any one person or persons. Everyone amassing outrage for the bullshit here is putting out their disappointment at the company as a whole. Don't make this about something that isn't an issue here.
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is there a way to report dbd to steam? at this point i'll rather see dbd die as a game, even at the cost of losing all the money i've spent on this game.
disgusting Behaviour, from the devs to those who dare to defend them.
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I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote and used my quotes outside of context to make arguments. I haven't been a "kiddo" in a couple of decades, but I'm just going to assume that's a term you use like people would use "dude" and not a patronizing/condescending term. 😃
I never insinuated people are just in their feelings. The just is an important adverb. People who are outraged that BHVR is supporting NFTs and believe NFTs are terrible have every reason to be upset. The people who are claiming that they were outright lied to are in their feelings, IMO. That was my insinuation. Outside of the good point you made on contractual obligations, my stance hasn't changed from my first post. Seeing that I'm pretty ignorant on the NFTs, I don't feel comfortable giving any opinions on them, but I will take everyone's word for it that they are environmentally damaging. Everyone has that hill that they are "willing to die on" so to speak. That line if a company crosses they can no longer support. NFTs aren't mine, but I respect anyone who has made that decision for themselves.
Agreed. Honestly, the older I get, the more capitalism disgusts me - but that's a longer and possibly political story, so I won't go there. Suffice to say, everyone has different things they can and cannot accept from the companies they purchase goods and services from. We need to understand that it is different for each person, and philosophically speaking it is incredibly difficult to normalize. My stance is: understand where your line is and let your money do your talking.
I'd also like to apologize for my initial reaction that was dripping in sarcasm. I think we agree on more than we disagree, but I also think we are both comfortable with our points of disagreement - and I hope we understand each other a bit better.
I say this with the utmost sincerity and no sarcasm whatsoever: Good luck in your boycott!
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Not everyone is overreacting, that's how
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Can't help but scoff tbh. Seeing people from first world countries get so outraged about NFTs while simultaneously enjoying the privileged comforts afforded to you at monumental environmental cost for the rest of us in the world, just rubs me the wrong way. BHVR is indefinsible in this regard, but neither are a lot of you guys. Sincerely, a very bitter islander whose country was already wrecked by climate change before NFT's even existed.
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Hi there ^^
I'm someone who currently lives in a third world country who got continuosly screwed over by western powers, so much so our country isn't even a century old. We literally had our independence during the end of World War 2.
And I think this kind of thinking and mindset doesn't help anyone at all. Are we as a society using a lot more energy than we need? Yes, but as individuals what we contribute are only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the amount these megacorporations and crypto exchanges use to power themselves.
I don't think criticizing someone who lives in a first world country for being more environmentally and morally conscious about stuff like this helps. If anything you should encourage them to, you know, help vote away companies like Boss Protocol from being able to operate considering what they do. Because as you said it yourself, we're Islanders whose country was already wrecked by climate change.
Does that mean we should be shooting ourselves more in the foot by discouraging and putting the blame on individuals trying to fight for change?
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I used to wildly agree with your sentiment and appreciate it, but at this point in my life I'm very tired of well meaning westerners with empty words and lip service when the ocean is literally in my house. You know what the Australian government told my prime minister when the islanders got together with them to beg for more climate change action? They told us we should be happy with the prospecy of having to migrate to Australia and pick their fruits. What the hell. You can probably guess why I've gotten to such an angry place about it now
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Sorry for the vent it's just you probably understand why I'm so angry and exhausted about it better than most here
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I can guess, I've lived in Australia before and I concur. But the people are not really to blame here, we shouldn't mock their efforts to spread awareness to these kinds of issues.
You have every right to be upset with the Australian government and others, but the more well meaning people who want to help change the world for the better are not your enemies.
I understand. I've been given harsh and unfair hardships in life as well, I know how you must feel.
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I personally don't understand NFTs or anything that goes with it nor am i supporting anything that destroys enviroment, but i would like you all to ask yourself.. am i really not using a product or a company that doesnt destroy the enviroment?
Did they do wrong by working with a company that does bad for the enviroment..yes probably, but dont mask it behind being enviroment friendly. We ALL use something that destroys the enviroment, and as much as we like we cant just give everything up unless you want to go live in a forest without anything.
Before you flame me ask yourself this one question..am i using a company to get something for myself even though i know what they are doing is harmful. Do i drink coffee or tea or eat food...is the answer is yes then you are using a company that cuts down forests to give you that food. Do i support cutting down forests .. no i don't but i cant lie to myself that im not going to the grocery store and buying coffee which is bad for the enviroment.
Hopefully behaviour learns from this and stops using companies that are known for stuff that isnt good.
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You're correct in your assessment of 'kiddo' - it's a bit of a tic when I write, even, and while I realize it sets some people off it's a surprisingly hard habit to break.
I disagree that you've not been insinuating people are just in their feelings, and yes - it's an important adverb. There's been a lot of defeatist rhetoric in what you're saying, much less in your recent responses, in line with but not the same as the people saying "Oh, you're quitting? See you next week."; including your repeated insistence that people weren't lied to. Was there a literal 'falsehood transmitted' lie? Not really. Was there a contextual and connotative lie, and were there lies of omission as per a fairly typical PR script? Absolutely. Is that enough for everyone to accept that there was a lie? Probably not, but that's not really my problem nor yours - it's a pretty individual experience.
I applaud and accept your apology, and offer my own for a second time - but hey, if we meet on the 'battlefield' again, know that I'll do so smiling as I do here, and I hope you can have a little fun should sparring happen.
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