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What's your win & loss conditions?
So for me it goes like this
Win:
4k with Merciless Killer
4k with Ruthless Killer
4k with Brutal Killer
3k with Merciless Killer
3k with Ruthless Killer
3k with Brutal Killer
3k with Entity Displeased
Going even with survivor:
2k with Brutal Killer (or Ruthless if this is even a thing)
Lost
2k with Entity Displeased
1k with Brutal Killer
1k with Entity Displeased
4 escapes (0k) with Brutal Killer
4 escapes with Entity Displeased
If this game were to have tournaments th above is a good formula to use to distribute points in a system. What do you think? Do you agree with these conditions?
Comments
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Win: 4 BBQ stacks
Loss: Less than 4 BBQ stacks
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Win: 3k+ on Killer, escape as Survivor
Loss: Less than 2k on Killer, sacrificed/mori'd as Survivor.
Tournaments should have different rules to regular games, though.
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Had a good time in match = Win
Other players DCd = aggravation
Other player(s) DCd but still had a good time = Win
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Honestly, 4K is my true view of a win.
But, in the actual state I'm satisfied wih 1K without tunneling.
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2K is win for Killer.
1K is win for Survivors.
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2k 2e is a win win or tie depending on how pessimistic you want to be
3ks 1e is a good match for killer
1k 3e us a good match for survivors
4ks is a killer blowout
4es is a survivor blowout.
Pretty sure this is what the devs are shooting for.
Unfortunately it's been so easy to get 4ks that most feel anything less is a loss. I know one steamer I watch now and again seems to takes the view that killers gets the win at 4k and survivors get 99 percent if the the win at all gens done and 100 at the gate open weather they die or not (truetalent if your curious)
Personally I think the community would be alot less angry at the balancing if the devs just came out and stated definitively what a win was but that's not gonna happen any time soon
This post is in no way a criticism of the dbd devs and should not be taken as such. It is also not intended to point out any forum rules being violated both of which are understood to be against forum rules.
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For killer I feel a win is any match you enjoy and have fun. Getting multiple kills or Merciless Killer is always a satisfying feeling but if I have good chases where I am successful with my power, mind game, or have fun moments then that's a win. I'd say the only time I consider a loss on the killer end for me is having survivors act toxic after I was struggling real hard with a killer I was using. I don't consider much to be all that toxic. Flashlight saves and sabos and things like this are not toxic. Even butt dancing and pointing are fine most of the time honestly. But if a killer has a really bad match and you go out of your way to make them feel bad about it or wait out as long as you possibly can in the exit gate after they are open, then you're a waste of space lol
As far as a more tournament oriented thing, I don't think Merciless Killer, brutal killer, ect should be taken into consideration because it's a nonsense label. I've had matches where I feel I've done pretty poorly but because I had decent enough gen defense, like 4-5 hooks, and made some decent points the game says I'm a brutal killer even though everyone escapes and I was being looped really well most of the time.
As survivor I consider it a win if I have some good chases. I don't really care about escaping though I look at it as a whole even as a solo. If two or more survivors escape, then that's a win. If the killer is face camping or tunneling super hard and I manage to save that survivor and get them out alive then that's a win for me even if I die in the end.
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Killer:
Win: 3 kills or 4 kills
Tie: 2 kills + two escapes
Loss: 1 kill + three escapes or 4 escapes
Survivor:
pretty much escaping is a win and being sacrificed as a loss
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Killer: 3k or 4k
Survivor: 4 WGLF stacks
Gotta get them STONKS
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Simply (and also mainly): If they die.
Otherwise: if I genuinely enjoy the game. Feel as if it could be been either way. The game feels as if there was no gap between killer and survivor.
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Killer
Win : 4bbq stacks
Loss : no 4 bbq stacks
Survivor
Win : hatch escape for maintaining MMR neutral, or dying finding it
Loss : escaping through doors
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Killer
Win: 4k-3k with or without Hatch
Most satisfying win: Killing everyone after all the Gens pop. Last minute 4k's are so nice
Loss: 1k or under
But more realistically, winning is just getting into a game lol
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Killer:
2k-4k
2K is a win to me because I see it as a draw, in a draw nobody really loses so I count not losing as winning in a sense
Survivor:
Escaping or completing a personal objective, like using Small Game to hunt down each and every totem, but that was before boons, now I gotta find a new objective :/
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Win - I had fun.
Loss - I didnt have fun.
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Ummmm...
.........
........
okay! )
So if you get 2kills but the entity is displeased do you count that as a win or loss?
Lol these are not win loss conditions but just you playing the game at a very casual level which theres nothing wrong with but i wanted to know about specific win conditions.
I see where your going with 4k as a win but 3k is not a win to you? You know how the hatch can prevent you from getting a 4k no matter how good you play/played. If you got 1k, in MY book you lost period. 3 people escaped so how do you consider that a win? Regardless of HOW you got the kill(s) tunneling or not a win is a win and a loss is a loss. 1k is not a win at all sorry.
You seem to be generally speaking so i'll flat out tell you that your wrong. 2 kills is not winning or beating survivor, it means you went even with survivor. Agreed that 1k is a win on the survivor side.
Its not easy getting 4k no matter how good or godlike you are because of the variables and situations ie like going against swf or having a bad map. Not saying killer cant have a bad game and that solo survivors are really on point but this is rare. Map difficulty for the killer has to be factored in. If you think that getting anything less than 4k is not a win or "less" then i'd essentially would have lost tons of matches because of the hatch lol. This simply is not the case and you cant base a win off of 4k because thats not realistic and silly thinking honestly.
Its different and varies individual to individual so to each his own but your "fun" is different from my fun and being very competitive which i am i want to win period even when im trying "fun" stuff. The brutal, merciless and ruthless is the games evaluation of how well you performed or lack thereof so therefore it "is" good for tournament settings, its perfect actualy because tournaments for this game needs a point system to determine winners and losers.
Straight forward and to the point, I like it! )
On the survivor side ummm.......
.......
ok
If "they" die so what 2, 3 kills? You need to speak specifically as i dont understand your post. This game is terribly imbalanced so theres always gonna be gaps between matches due to bad maps etc. Too many variables.
Ok i main killer but when i play as survivor (which im really good at) if you get 4 BBQ stacks but fail to kill anyone and get Entity Displeased how do you consider that a win? In my eyes you lost period. You can have your "stacks" and get your extra BP, it doesnt take away from the fact that you lost the game lol. My apologies but i really dont understand this line of thinking. The devs give away free BP all the time and BP is not THAT hard to get in this game especially as killer. I dont agree with these BBQ stacks = win replies sorry.
Also how is escaping a loss for survivor? lol What?
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2k is a draw regardless of emblem grade! I don't put much stock in the emblem system as a win/loss mechanic, personally, it's pretty conclusively proven to be pretty worthless in that regard. It's great for personalised stuff on top of kills though so I totally understand people who use it that way themselves.
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Since the introduction of MMR, the win/loss conditions are pretty much defined by the devs already. Escape = win, death = loss, 3-4k = win, 0-1k = loss.
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"They" as in the 4 survivors 😏
As for otherwise, there's always those games that really feel fun and enjoyable. That feel as if the game isn't imbalanced and that I wasn't getting frustrated. It's hard to really say what goes into those games, but you know it when it happens.
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Survivor:
Whether I escape or not, as long as I out-earn everyone else in BP, that proves I was the MVP of the match and thus = a complete win. Also if I was the only survivor who doesn't DC over petty reasons... I really hate poor sportsmanship.
Killer:
... When I hear the Lamentations of their women!
(instant upvote for anyone who replies and gets this reference 😋)
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3k wins for Killer. 1k wins for Survivor. 2k is a draw.
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Having fun = win.
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To each their own ! I personally dont care killing survivors, it doesnt count as a win to me.
On the contrary, killing survs or escaping as a survivor would increase my MMR, and this is a big LOOSE to me. Its a party meme game, not a sweatlord fest.
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The killer only wins with a 4k. Plain and simple. I will even go out of my way to distract a killer if say 2 are left as gens get done...just so the final person can open a gate while I am being chased/killed. They still lost XD
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Killer: More kills than escapes = win
Survivor: More escapes than kills = Win
2-2 = Draw on both roles
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As killer since MMR started honestly getting a kill feels like a win lol.
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"You seem to be generally speaking so i'll flat out tell you that your wrong. 2 kills is not winning or beating survivor, it means you went even with survivor. Agreed that 1k is a win on the survivor side."
Read your post, and what else you said in it.
It is so, that 2K is a win for Killer, and 1K is a win for Surivors.
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Killer win: 4k by any means
Survivor win: hatch by any means
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3k or 4k- win
escape the trial- win
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Ahh yes, the survivor ending the game off with merciless killer.
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Just FYI, Ruthless with a 2k is possible. It's my most consistent result, because I prefer to take it easy after two kills - 2k before endgame pretty much means you control the match, and I mostly lose interest after that - I don't farm, but I try to get my emblems up by alternating chases and downs as long as possible.
A win/loss condition, regardless of role, is whether I had fun or learned something new. Even an unfun educational experience is a good time for me.
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Killer: daily done/challenge done.
Survivor: having good chases.
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Fun has absolutely nothing to do with winning or losing, fun is just fun. Some people even though they lose games may have overall fun so i guess it depends on the context.
I respect it but you should respect the fact that some people are competitive like me and want the increased MMR for higher challenges. For me, killing low rank or MMR survivors is not fun for me at all. If people are sweaty, let them be sweaty, you cant fault them for that! )
Nooooo. Someone brought this up so im going to repeat myself. You cant say that a 4k is a win and a 3k isnt because of the hatch plain and simple. Some people even consider a 3/4k the same and rightfully so. The scenario you are painting is 3 escapes which is a loss but 3k is definetly not a loss at all. You are 100% wrong. This is DBD were talking about so your comment that "A killer only wins with a 4k plain and simple" is false and misleading.
I agree with that only up to a certain point with one exception
If i get 2k and Entity Displeased "I" see that as a loss personally because to me even though i went even in terms of kills i could have played a little better.
What? Your trying to confuse things for no reason. I said i consider a 2k with Brutal or Ruthless a draw or going even with survivor and a 2k with Entity Displeased as a loss. Of course 1k is win for the survivor lol.
Why do some people have this mentality? Your straight out wrong! lol You are not gonna 4k every game no matter how good you or or how bad the team is because 1 person can get hatch because it is that way by design, point blank plain and simple. I'm not talking about win conditions for survivor because that's something totally different and calls for a separate thread since i didn't include survivor win/loss conditions for this thread.
What? If you are referring to a survivor escaping but a killer gets Merciless Killer then that means that the killer played out of his mind and a near perfect game but the survivor won the end game and thus gets to tell the tale/story of survival. End game is not always in the killers favor although it is mostly. Sometimes the survivor gets good exit gates rng and it depends on the map.
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Huh, im making a joke because for survivor victories they were having killer endgame placementsNvm I read this wrong I thought this was killers, than on the bottoms were base victories for survivors
I made that comment thinking he was saying the survivor got brutal/ruthless/merciless killer
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Oh really? lol Oh ok gotcha
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"What? Your trying to confuse things for no reason. I said i consider a 2k with Brutal or Ruthless a draw or going even with survivor and a 2k with Entity Displeased as a loss. Of course 1k is win for the survivor lol."
And I said that 2k is a Killer win. Its not a draw, its actually a win for Killer.
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For killers, I uses Otz win Streak win con.
For survivors, 3 man or more escape is a win, 2 is a tie, 1 or none is a lose and is just for getting as much points as possible at that point. Doesn't matter if I get hatch or not, it's just for points.
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Its not though! What? lol Killing 2 survivors IS NOT A WIN FOR KILLER! You didnt beat them with 2k's! Are you ok!? lol
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It is though. You however arent considering it from the Killer perspective.
1K is a loss. 2K is a win. 3K is rare. 4K is hens teeth, and this the further up the matchmaking.
Inversely, for Survivor TEAM, 1K is a win, and 2K is a team loss. They must get more than half of the Survivors out.
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no u, u wrong dont u tell me wat to do or how to think
Thanks to the new toxic hatch update, and the fact that I play a different killer every round, I slug and 4k every trial. Don't care for mmr anyways, and I don't concern myself over the experience for others either.
It's alot of fun for me overall, so my win condition given the toxic hatch update is complete and total annihilation of the survivor squad.
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The OP was a question asking for individual opinion. I stand by what I said. There is no OFFICIAL answer to this. Doesn't even matter what the majority of the playerbase thinks or believes. My answer is the killer only wins at a 4k. Doesn't matter if the 4th uses hatch or a gate to escape, still means the killer lost. Even in all horror movies, the legendary "final girl" escapes...happy ending...bad guy/killer loses. Again...as a matter of perspective and opinion.
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Regardless of what any person or MMR system dictates, I consider it a personal win when I just have fun. And I consider it fun when I know I can control the pace of a game, or have at least impacted it in a meaningful way.
In that light, I'm never really concerned with survival, kills, hooks, or whatever else.
---
Killer example:
When I play as Ghostface, kill someone before 2 gens are done with multiple hooks, and my efforts have made it so that I can obviously dictate how the game will go based on my whims, it's a win for me. Even if I decide to let the other 3 people go, and crouch around the map pretending I'm a scared little crab, I still consider it a win.
In contrast, if I'm playing as Clown, 5 gens pop, and I don't have a single hook, but they all run it down and die to me before they leave, I consider it a loss. Why? Because I didn't have much impact on the game, and I didn't have fun.
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Survivor example:
If I run around as Dwight, get a ton of points, but die saving someone in end-game, it's still a win for me because I had fun and know I contributed to the teams success in a meaningful way.
In contrast, if I hide in a locker, get few points, and escape at the end, it wouldn't matter to me that I lived or died, I'd still consider the game a loss because I wasn't impacting the game in a meaningful way.
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The Devs already said in the Q&A that a win is just kills and escapes with 3+ kills being a win for the killer and every survivor winning individually if they escape.
Different individual win conditions aren't really a thing anymore imo, they said what a win is in their game.
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As Killer:
Win - 3-4k that I had fun in.
Draw - Intense ending match with two escaping.
Loss - Boring matches with gens that fly at unreasonable speeds, no matter if I get 0k or 4k. 2k with a boring match and below are losses.
As survivor: Escape with at least 20k points. Or run a tunnelling killer for a long amount of time.
Unique win condition: If I have over 8 instances where without Dead Hard they'd be down, I consider it a win or at least a draw. At this point survivors are crutching and using an overwhelming advantage because people don't get how much power it gives to a single survivor.
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TWiXT! What is best in life?
On topic, for me, it's just the BP grind and having fun in this very obviously casual game. So long as I get BBQ/WGLF stacks (if I'm running them) and have a good time in the trial, I'm cool.
It's hard to say what a win condition is when the game doesn't have a loss condition. No matter what, every player comes away with BPs to progress the game. I don't need my ego stroked with fictitious win conditions I invented.
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4k for killer, killer doesn’t 4k for survivor
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It used to be 4-3k but with the mmr I'd say I win if I get any more than 5 hooks before all the gens are done.
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Win: don't spend money on the game
Loss: spend money on the game
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What are you talking about? I MAIN KILLER LOL, #########! 2k is NOT A WIN for the final time, your being delusional. In your own world 2k is a win but in reality 2k is half of 4k and is thus a draw!!! 2K means you went even or drew even with them period! Im not replying to you after this because its pointless and dumb at this point...
Whatever man, to each his own..
What you think (that 4k is only a win) works in your own personal world/mind but is nor reality nor facts! 3k or 4k is a win and THATS FACTS! Your statement is an opinion based off your own win/loss conditions which i 100% dont agree with.
Yeah but everyone is different. While i dont disagree with them on that you cant say that win conditions arent a thing anymore because there are draws and status etc (brutal, ruthless, merciless) if these things didnt matter at all they wouldnt be in the game.
What? lol whatever, Killer is not horrible its just that the game is in survivors favor. If playing killer was a "lost" then every game would have 4 escapes... So moving along
There is a loss condition, its called 3 or 4 escapes! Call it ego but everyone has an ego and dont tell me we dont. If you live in this world you have an ego, if you play certain games you have a ego, theres nothing wrong with it/that its only a problem when you take your ego to put others down or make them feel bad in one way or another thus the egotistical people, egoist, toxic people, big ass ego's etc. Theres nothing wrong with setting wi/loss conditions for yourself because it just means you have expectations when you play and or are competitive!
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Only 4k is a win. For bonus points, get 4k with 5 gens still remaining.
3k is not even a draw. By letting a survivor escape, you let the survivors complete their gens, which is a loss for the killer in many ways. A draw would be 4k and they managed to get all five gens done or even open a gate.
By letting one escape through the hatch, you weren't slugging near the end, which is another whole type of loss.
People can try to pat themselves on the back for 3k or 2k, but since the game is do gens or die, any escapes means they completed their gens (or you didn't slug) and I scoff at the idea of both a killer and a survivor winning in the same trial.
Whatever makes you feel like a winner, I guess.
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Killer: I get two hooks on everyone and then had the opportunity to finish survivors off if that's what I'd wanted (because if I get two hooks on everyone and then they're straight out the gates, that would have meant a 0k in a typical game.) Also if I got an achievement/archive I was angling for.
Survivor: I escape or die enabling someone else's escape.
Also, it's a win condition if it turns into a meme game and everyone just has fun goofing off.
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