Camping, slugging, and tunneling is already punishable by the survivors
I always hear people complaining about these tactics (although they are cheap and lame at times) and don't understand why they beg for them to be nerfed.
You simply cannot implement much at all that would punish a killer for doing any of these actions without breaking the game, and are you really going to punish a killer for doing their only objective? But you don't need this at all in the game because they are already punishable, by survivors.
Slugging:
If the killer is slugging people a little too excessively, it can backfire hard. If the killer slugs two people and does not pick them up, then this gives the others an opportunity to go in and save them. This also robs the killer of their time and possibly resources (like Huntresses' hatchets or just time). And perks such as unbreakable or WGLF are also pretty darn good in these situations as well.
Once you recover from a heavy slugging session, there is a good chance that you can rebound very well afterwards if you play your cards right and manage to coordinate a recovery, even a small one. This will also suck for the killer since they miss out on a hook state.
Camping:
I think we all know that the best way to deal with this is to just do generators as you can and escape or to perform well-timed and coordinated saves with BT assuming the killer is not a Bubba. By not doing so, you just give the killer more kills for even less effort.
If a killer camps at the start of the game and you manage to recover from it, there is a pretty good chance that you can escape since the killer spent most of the early to mid game just sitting in one area or spot. Especially since all of the pallets should still be up.
Tunneling:
Finally, tunneling. Tunneling can backfire pretty badly just like the other two. Why? Because if the killer focuses on only one survivor to chase and hook, then the killer can waste precious time, lose map pressure on the other survivors, and if the killer fails to kill that survivor then the killer will just have wasted a huge amount of time chasing one survivor for nothing. They won't even have enough time to make a comeback.
Conclusion:
Now, obviously you will not always be able to punish the killer as survivor, but the fact that you can shows enough. This is mainly for solo or low MMR players who fall into this category.
You punish the killer by simply playing around them.
Comments
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Tunneling can only be punished with perks, a killer playing sweaty can just ignore made up rules and go after the same survivor as many times as he wants to sacrifice him as fast as possible. That's why BT and DS are such strong go-to perks, they invalidate one of the most powerful tactics a killer can use in order to win the game.
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*The only tactics killers can use when it really comes down to it.
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Hook guarding is really the only thing that needs to go, the others at least you can try and get a fair chance.
I have watched whole teams go down trying to do what you suggest on so many occasions it's not even funny that it's classified as gameplay.
EVEN WITH a purple toolkit geared towards hook sabotage and someone helping pull people off hooks AND the offering that makes then further apart. Iron grip is what gets us there but is a fair perk IF they aren't hook guarding.
It ruins the fun of the game (because there is no way you're gaining enjoyment from standing in one spot and or slapping hooked meat around) and doesn't allow hooked survivors to play at all, which is becoming normal just to save the other three. It's toxic and something should be done about it because it isn't even funny how common it is.
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I actually do enjoy beating them on hook, believe it or not.
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Ok and that was 100% not the point nor the topic.
It's pretending to play the game while preventing someone else from playing. It should be an offense or nerfed because it takes absolutely no skill.
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If it wasn't the point or the topic, why bring it up? That is your problem, not mine. Rofl.
Anyways, I digress, it is not pretending to play the game just because you are mad. If I was just pretending, you should really be blaming your survivor buddies for not being able to save against a skilless pretender.
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Using claims of enjoyment for a toxic gameplay doesn't help it's case, of course you enjoy it it's almost a guranteed kill.
It's interruptive gameplay and has nothing to do with feelings, it shouldn't be allowed just because killers don't want to work for sacrifices.
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I play Solo casual so obviously I can not punish tunneler/camper.
Those match always go around 2-3k. Even when I have Kindred and sit tight on Gen.
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I am just helping to correct you. First it was "there is no way anyone enjoys this" and now it is "of course you enjoy this." Now we agree and can move forward. How do we stop this toxicity?!
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It was an over exaggeration, there is no need to correct. Only stop being toxic so that other players actually get a chance to play the game.
Penalize the behaviour like they should any game interrupting tactic.
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And camping and tunneling can only countered correctly if survivors share information. Guess what soloQs lack?
In general, camping and tunneling against solos nets a 2k AT THE VERY LEAST, unless the first chase is extremely weak. Bring meta stuff into the equation and it's very simple to cruise through most trials.
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Kindred helps negate this though
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To be fair sometimes doing gens when the killer is camping doesn't work out
I've actually had killers DC before because we do gens instead of saving
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I agree. It's not fun. But it's counterable.
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Pretty much anything you do as killer is punishable, to a great extent too. It doesn't take a genius to see that, but we've got to enlighten some folks with posts like this every now and then.
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The problem with camping/tunneling is often, of course you can gen rush. The person on the hook otherwise can not play the game. They dont get much bloodpoints.
It shouldnt exists that someone is getting hostaged by that.
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survivors also need to see that killers (especially with this new MMR) are often forced to camp/tunnel to get a kill and it's already hard enough to get a first hook without 2 gens popping.
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If they go after a weak link then yes perks for tunneling are necessary.
If they go after a strong survivor then it will cost them to lose the game over it.
Yes the chances are big you will go down eventually, but that it means he will only get 1 and not 4.
It is very well possible you even escape if the rest of the team is also strong or competent.
Believe it or not, i enjoy if the killer goes after me it's more fun than sitting on the gen.
If hook guarding needs to go then you punish the killer more than you'll realize.
What if your team and the killer are both strong but he didn't get any kills yet?
So during egc he downs 1 of you and wants to secure his 1 and only kill 9f the match.
So if you punish hook guarding in any way, he'll get punished for his hard work even though the game was fair for both sides.
The only way you can punish the killer is how it is done now.
They get punished by being in the proximity of the hook when there's no survivor in a 16m radius.
And should 1 being facecamped early in the game then punish him by just pushing out the gens.
Sure maybe there's another survivor who might fall, but at least the rest can get out and he doesn't get a 4k
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My issue with camping is that while you can completely counter it by doing gens you are essentially just guaranteeing that 1 persons game is completely ruined.
The survivors who get out just end up playing skill check simulator, the killer gets very little points, the survivor who got camped gets no points.
It just really isn't a fun way to play for anyone.
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I agree with the devs that the current counterplay to camping is impractical.
Firstly, you have to hope the survivor doesn't dc or kill themselves on hook, which they will most of the time because there's no point of staying. Also like the devs said, it takes a while to realise camping is even happening. Considering it only takes 120 seconds to sacrifice a survivor this is a big deal. And even if these two things are out of the way you need to do gens very efficently. No co-op repairing, avoid 3 gen, will probably need toolboxes/perks. And at the end of all that the killer may still have an opportunity to get more kills.
Tunnelling is only avoidable by perks.
Slugging is fine, in my opinion.
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It isn't, but the faster you do gens, the faster you can get out.
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Yeah, I do vouch for a survivor being camped on hooked or tunneled all game to get some sort of reward so they don't leave a match empty handed.
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I did read on the Q&A stream they’re trying to come up with a way to make camping less punishing for survivors. Don’t know what that means.
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It means that it will probably take a year for another QoL change with a side of nerfing pig again.
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The camping counter is wrong as it's only countered by SWF.
Non SWF will have to come check the hook, see that the killer is camping and then decide individually to do gens. All survivors will loose 1 minute doing this. So atm there is no counter.
As well, tunneling has no counter against killers that are efficient in chases.
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Well to be fair, there's a perk called kindred which can help you against campers 😉
Not chosing to run it is on you, i don't always run it either tho as i switch it with different perks.
But overall that perk is very good to use as a solo, both when you're on the hook as well as when another is on the hook.
About tunneling, that depends on the survivor being tunneled.
If the survivor is very good in being chased then the killer has a hard time, even has to decide whether it's worth it to continue or not.
I for 9ne love to being chased and can hold my own very well.
Unless you have other survivors that try to help you and mangle in the chase, i appreciate it when they try to help but in my experience is that it full only screw me over.
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Only it isn't fair to the person who didn't get to play because there's many other ways to kill survivors. Ignoring gens popping for a kill isn't even playing when it takes thag long and they've been facing since the start of the match. Those are the problem and they are literally saturating the killers.
If vaulting is blocked for abuse then so should facing be.
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Never said anything about fairness.
Been many times on the hook and being facecamped, and yes i just keep hanging there to give the rest of the team a chance to escape.
Is it fun for me?
Nope, but it's part of the game and I just move on to the next game which is almost better every time
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I play as a 4 man or 3 man regularly and its not easy to get 5 gens done with a camping killer at all. 3 is reasonable to expect and 4 at best in most cases - at which point the killer is already in chase and can usually get another. OH and they usually still have the most BP.
Just doing gens isnt that simple when traversing the map and trying to find them, accounting for attempts to rescue etc. I can be in a game and looking for a gen with corrupt on and my friend has done 50% on one..
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I very much agree with you, and I want to add for my part, that it is very very common to see that as soon as the murderer stops feeling that he has absolute control of the game, or the game gets or is difficult, go to camp.
Let's not fool ourselves anymore, this is very easy, if camping or even tunneling didn't work so well, there wouldn't be so many players resorting to this practice continuously, which is not a mystery what happens in DBDL either.
Camping has multiple and very positive benefits, that it does not always work, we all know it, but you have to be very blind not to see that camping is one of the most recurrent and effective strategies on a par with creeping, such as tunneling to the weakest link in the field. team and that the rest can do nothing.
There are many players without skill and without basic or general knowledge of the game taking advantage of these shortcomings.
The only thing missing was that we had to get to the point that camping worked 100% of the time, to realize that the system has defects.
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Using a perk slot to counter a behavior that should't even exists into the game, where is it fair ?
About tunneling, i only talk about high MMR scene, the rest of the players i don't care as they don't know how to play, why should we care to balance a game for mediocre players ? So at high MMR, against a Nurse, Nemesis, Spirit, Blight you won't be able to last long in any chase.
The global game design is old and broken, allowing camping and tunneling (even forcing these behaviors). Meanwhile developers are creating more and more killers that can end chases in no time just to compensate the gen speed and the garbage map & game designs.
Nothing is fun in DbD anymore.
When you play survivor, you will always get one being camped and tunneled, gen rushing or trying to help is not fun, it's either holding M1 or dying rescuing the hooked camped survivor; in both cases, the interaction with the killer is terribly limited (interacting with the killer being the fun part of the game...).
As a killer, you can't do anything but camp and tunnel as you will be bullied against high skilled survivors, especially if they are not soloQ.
The way DbD has been designed, around generators, hooks & looping is why we all have a terrible experience now that MMR is out as nothing, not a single aspect of the game is properly balanced.
Maps are either too big either too small. They are either too empty either too full of buildings and jungle gyms. There are way too many pallets/windows and possible semi-infinite situations. Generators are done way too fast without any counter measure for the killer. Fact that survivors can bring awesome items to do gens even faster is bullshit.
Fact that they can bring heal items is BS too. Do they have the choice between equipping self care or being injured all the time ? No, Just bring a purple medkit and you are good to go.
Hook system combined with the other aspects force the killers to camp and tunnel.
etc...
Without a global rework of some game mechanics, the game will die and has no future and i believe that no licence will be able to change this.
Before SBMM it was okay as you could have fun on both sides. Since SBMM, my trials have been nothing but garbage on both sides. As a killer it was either an ez win either an impossible win. As a survivor it has always been camping and tunneling one of the survivor to get the first kill fast.
All the fun parts have disappeared. DbD won't last with the current state. And as the devs seem unhappy with the idea of removing SBMM and as they need years to fix simple things, DbD is pretty much dead and already dying.
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I wasn't talking about fairness at all.
I know what it's like up there in high mmr, and no i also don't enjoy dbd anymore.
That's why i stepped away from playing killer, something i have played a lot since day 1 and always enjoyed.
I always went for a 12 hook even if it seemed doomed to fail, but with the mmr implemented that is something you just can't do anymore.
Yes bringing items or perks as survivor is imo unnecessary as you will escape pretty easily anyway.
Any gen slowdown perks a killer has is getting nerfed because it's to strong against lower level players, something the devs always put first instead of the higher players.
And imo i think more killers(main) should just switch sides and stay there for a long time, maybe this will open the eyes of the devs for once (doubt that tho)
Don't get me wrong, i understand your frustration, but don't take it out on me as i only gave examples of what to do.
I never talked about it being fair or balanced 😉✌️
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Then we agree on pretty much everything. 😀
Personally i have completely stopped to play DbD. Have installed back BF1 and BF4 and i'm having a blast.
I will wait for VHS and Evil Dead, both look promising but i don't think i will ever come back in the fog, the game is doomed to my mind and devs won't be fast enough to fix it to an acceptable level. And if we refer to my survivor queue times last week, many killers has either switched side either stopped to play.
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Pretty much yes.
I haven't stopped playing yet, i only switched to survivor only now.
I might switch back to killer if they can make it better, I'm someone who loves to run something different than multiple gen slowdown perks and be more gimmicky/meme.
But unfortunately atm that is not a possibility anymore.
So for now it's race games and to chill a bit dbd as survivor only
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Yep. 100%.
I had a Bubba camp a door for the entire match. He was a Twitch streamer. We couldn't find him all match and assumed he went AFK so we just did gens, bones, and left. He messaged my team mate after and said that we "made him look like #########" because we did gens and left and he got no hooks or kills.
Like, no bro. You did that by camping at one of the TWO doors and not doing anything for the whole game.
Also, if someone camps my hook, I just tell my team mates to gen rush, do bones and get out. Sometimes they save me, sometimes they don't, but a 1k is better than a 4k. If that's how they wanna play, then so be it,
I also had a tunneling Hag in Gideon, and I managed to run her for 4 gens. I did nothing else in that match but run. ended up being a 0k and 2 hook game (and she only got 1 of the hooks because a team mate crossed our paths in a chase and they were already injured)
Camping and tunneling sucks, but if you're aware of what your team is doing and are prepared to be the 1k, then they'll learn fast
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Camping and Tunnelling are already penalized by The Entity in terms of BPs.
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Bond can help in chases so that if you see teammates doing gens, you know not to go near there. Just throwing it out there.
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Are you trying to claim that its harder to win against a camping Killer, than it is vs a Killer that actually pressures you around the map?
Be careful how you answer this in relation to what you said above.
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Not everyone plays to try and get a 4K....
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Even with swfs you can't do much against it, you come across the Bubba with corrupt and noed and your basically guaranteed that he gets a 2k. The first guy gets hooked, if he has kindred and the rest of the team pays attention then your looking at a 2k. No comms or no kindred and someone's going for the save so that's gonna end in 3 or 4ks easy.
Best case scenario once the camp starts is you get 3 gens done and you loose only one more survivor before two escape
This post is in no way a criticism of the dbd devs and should not be taken as such. It is also not intended to point out any forum rules being violated both of which are understood to be against forum rules.
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I play as a 3 and 4 man regularly and a killer camping at 5 gens will still usually get at least 2 kills.
Camping ruins the game for everyone cuz its boring. I much prefer if the killer gets 4k and everyone has some fun chases or interactions than escape in a game where theres no interaction.
Camping is literally in every game atm and it really is making long, buggy games now boring too!
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Oh no, she ran in front of me because I'd already been hooked and she was protecting me from my 2nd because the hag had been camping, and I was the better looper of our team (we were a 3 man swf) and we were down to our last gen. She knew if I healed I could get her down at endgame if needed because I was running BT, and the last gen was almost complete.
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It should be known by now that slugging is high risk high reward.
Tunneling to a lesser degree. If they really don't have BT or DS which happens sometimes it's a free kill and reducing the survivors from 4 to 3 early on in a match is crippling.
Camping is the real problem especially with certain killers who can insta down anyone attempting a save. Killers who do this "playstyle" of simply camping their first hooked survivor and waiting for someone else to come along and down them/possibly even both of them which Bubba is quite capable of doing or even just going for a hook grab on the rescuer can easily guarantee a 2k which is usually all these people care about so they're not losing MMR.
If you're okay with that kind of scummy "tactic" then cool. The reason a lot of people play this game is to chase as killer and be chased as survivor not sit on a hook all match and be hit / told we're bad in the end game chat and that we need to get better to not get caught in the first place.
I've been playing Killer almost exclusively lately because at least my matches won't be held hostage like that by actual man children killers who somehow have fun doing that to others.
If something isn't going to be done about face camping they need to make being face camped less awful I've said this before but giving them distraction points that count towards Objectives would be nice since they're indirectly helping the other survivors get gens done while the killer camps them.
The new MMR revelations have made tunneling and camping both much more popular as every kill = a gain in MMR for the killer so of course these strategies will be used even more. As for why you'd want to achieve higher MMR utilizing these tactics I don't know.
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I understand the complaints, as slugging, camping, and tunneling isn't fun for anybody in the match. But you can't really dictate how a person plays neither, even if it makes them look like a dick. There's no real way to nerf how somebody plays neither. Slugging isn't really an issue, it all depends, because some killers' powers work by slugging. Oni losing his power, by picking up a survivor. Myers losing his snowball by picking up a survivor. Victor preventing survivors from being able to get to full health state. When killers, that their power doesn't require slugging, they just slug to let everybody bleed out, is really annoying tho.
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