What's stronger: Hex perks or Boon perks?
What do you think is stronger and why?
Comments
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Boon perks, currently, but with an overhaul to totem spawns and maybe a few QoL buffs to Hexes they'd be pretty evenly balanced.
In general, anyway. Obviously some Hexes just suck, but the mechanic overall isn't substantially weaker than the mechanic of Boon perks.
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Definitely hex perks. They're the perks that affect the game the most. Shadow step doesnt change the game much and circle of healing wont have a tremendous effect when the killer is close
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Hex effects are stronger
Boons are more powerful to have to deal with due to the limited killer time
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Boon because theres reward with no risk. Hex perks "can" have higher rewards but the risk is too great. Once its cleansed its gone. Boon totems cam simply be relit. Imo the only strong hex perk is devour hope. The rest either require too much effort or give too little a benefit. Sometimes both. /looks at huntress lullaby
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In general, ignoring specific effects of individual hexes and boons, the systems are on par
- Hexes have an advantage in that they are in effect at the start of the match with no action needed by the killer, while Boons need 14 second actions to activate. Also Hexes are map wide effects while Boons have limited radius.
- Boons though can be reset if snuffed out while hexes can’t.
The above system is fine in general, and the balance of individual boons and hexes lies in the specific numbers for their effects. For instance, Circle of Healing would be too weak if it only gave a 1% healing speed boost, but it would be too strong if it let you heal to full in 1 second, so somewhere in the middle is a reasonable balance point.
I think it’s probably a little too early to tell how good or bad the new Boons are exactly. Off the cuff they seem good but I have no numbers to say how good to back up a claim one way or another shrug. But in broad terms the general systems of how hexes and boons operate mechanically overall seem on par with each other.
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Hex Perks for now. Boons might get up there depending on what they add, and when survivors figure out the timing behind blessings. But as of right now, hexes are stronger. Ruin + Undying can turn the tide of a match in a way that no boon can.
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Boonperks: only for perk 1 slot you affect 4 survivors. Survivors get 16 slots, killers get 4 but they can have perks of equivalent strength with just 1 perk slot. Seems tooootally fair to me. Boon totems should just be active on people that run the boon totems perks, not every survivor, this is complete bullshit i still don't get how is half the community happy with that.
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Boons. If you want your hex consistently lasting more than 1 minute you have to run something like Undying or Thrill to protect it (and even then it can happen) and that's already half of the killer build gone.
Survivors only have to sacrifice 1/16 of their perks to get a massive effect, and they can be relit anytime. The downside being the time you waste blessing the totem, but survivors' time is overall less valuable than killers' time already.
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This would be true if survivors were required to run boon perks to be able to get their benefits but they are getting the benefit of stronger perks not only for them, but for the rest of the team. This seems bullshit to me.
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Boons. They can keep coming back and the Dev's dont put much effort into hiding totems.
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This is an idea I had back in July of 2019 to make hex perks more interesting. Obviously many current hex perks didn't exist at the time so I would have to update some of these ideas (especially the ruin change). But the overall concept was killers becoming gaining a boost of temporary empowered by their hex totem if they cleansed it themselves. Now that the bases for killers "cleansing" boon totems is a thing, this could be something that happens. (keep in mind that its a 2 year old post, so ideas will be dated)
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Boon. They are consistent, and have no counter play. Survivors control the course of a match, they can take the time to relight totems. The Killer's only options are;
- Drop chase to snuff totem, losing the survivor.
- Chase the survivor without being able to see scratch marks.
- Chase the survivor when they can heal themselves mid chase multiple times
It's a lose/lose situation when used correctly. Also "You'll run out of pallets" isn't an excuse the game is designed that a Survivor can run the Killer without needed to use Pallets. There are enough windows on most maps, and the strong tiles spawn close enough together to combine them. Like ever run Springfield, Haddon, Lery's, or Crotus with Windows of Opportunity? Impossible to catch.
It's not another objective to survivors to slow the game down. It's just a flat buff, I am sure at some point survivors will catch on and run them regularly as apart of the meta.
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Boons
Cause they can be replaced and be placed on Hexes
On top of what everyone else is saying
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On paper, Hex perks have individually stronger effects, but the Boon perks' reusability makes their consistency vastly outclass Hex perks' consistency.
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Hex. My random teammates spend more time blessing and re-blessing totems only to get hit with NOED at end game. 😂
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How to counter boon Totems:
Circle of Healing: run nurses and make sure they always have at least one totem up. If you know where a totem is and someone is injured just walk to where the totem is. 9/10 times that survivor ran all the way across the map there to heal. Knock 'em down.
Shadow Step: Honestly this was the perk I was concerned about when these were announced because there is no reasonable counter play to missing scratch marks. I guess it would be get good at finding survivors using your ears instead of your eyes. I would suggest a buff to killer that when they are in shadow step they no longer hear chase music. Oh well good luck with that one gang.
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Well again the actual numbers determine whether the individual Boon is balanced or not. Circle of Healing with only 1% bonus for all survivors in the area is still too weak, for instance, even though everybody would get it. So somewhere between 1% and instant healing is a percentage boost that’s reasonable.
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Hexes. Dont even know how this can actually be a question.
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I predict that the answers in this thread will be totally unbiased and not simply "Hexes/Boons are stronger because I'm a Survivor/Killer main!"
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Depends on how long hexes last if most of the match then hexes are stronger.
Overall though, boons since they are permanent, give very good effects and can be reused without wasting time if you decide to bless at time killer isn't doing anything usefull so time wasted doesn't matter.
Boons are far more consistent then hexes which imo makes them better then relying on RNG that hexes give you something if anything at all.
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Boon for one reason the boon perk can be activate any number of time in a trial
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Would a perk that gived everybody in an area selfcare really be too weak? For just 1 slot? Instead of bringing 4 selfcares you just bring this perk and spend 14 seconds activating it? Seems like a really good deal to me. Imagine the same but with extra speed, completly broken and unjustified for 1 slot.
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Boons. They dont get spawned on and gone with the first 10seconds of a match and gone for good.
I dont want to pick sides but ######### do hexs still spawn at gens and in the open... its 2021 and we code like we're back in 2009
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Why is this even a question? It's boons. Because they're strong perks that can be used infinitely, and hexes just look pretty before they're destroyed in the first minute.
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LMFAO
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I'll answer with a question.
Which one can override the other?
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Nurses is a good counter to coh but it is a terrible against shadow step. The problem is shadow hides auras as well scratches. So having both on one totem completely cancels nurses.
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HEX PERKS:
- Pros -
- Their effects are map-wide
- Multiple totems have to be cleansed if more than 1 Hex Perk is equipped
- Cons -
- As the Killer, you cannot hide them yourself; the game picks where they are placed
- Once it's gone, it's gone (Hex: Undying being the exception)
- For the majority of Hex Perks, their benefits have to be earned; tokens have to be gained
- They cannot override Boon Perks (NoED)
BOON PERKS:
- Pros -
- Survivors get to choose where to place them
- They can be moved around and relit countless times, and by up to 4 players
- Their benefits do not have to be earned at all
- They can override Hex Perks
- Only one Boon Totem has to be blessed for everyone to receive the benefits of all equipped Boons
- Cons -
- They have a 24 meter range
- They take a little time to bless
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Once again, the power does not go to the power role...
Post edited by Nos37 on4 - Pros -
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Oh #########, i didn't know it cancels auras. Well nevermind then. Fk this perk
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Boones can come back and once a hex is gone, it's gone. As long as survivors do not destroy the totems all 5 can be re-ignited endlessly
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My Favorite Boons vs My Favorite Hex:
The Boons of Healing and Shadow provide unlimited healing and amazing stealth and can be seen by all survivors across the map. The totem gives a faint hum that can give away its position to killers.
Hex: Plaything makes a survivor that has been hooked oblivious and then MAKES THE GODDAMN TOTEM VISIBLE TO THEM TO CLENSE.
Which is stronger? You be the judge!
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Boon.
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If the self care takes 100 seconds to complete then yes, it would be too weak. If the selfcare takes 1 second then it would be too strong. So somewhere between 1 and 100 seconds are some reasonable numbers where it's relatively balanced.
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Hexes for now
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Oh thanks for that 200 IQ take, didn't realize that it would be balanced between 1-100 seconds
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I think you missed my point. It’s not that Boons are resettable that makes them balanced or imbalanced, it’s the numbers in the individual effects. Tweak them too low the Boon is too weak despite being resettable, too high it’s too strong. I didn’t way where the balance point should be, I’m only giving a mathematical reason for why it must exist (i.e. the intermediate value theorem says that since the Boon is too strong at 1 second heal and too weak at 100 seconds there must exist an intermediate value where the Boon is balanced assuming everything between is essentially continuous).
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I understood that in the previous comment, and I even told you that even at self-care speed (32 seconds) it would be strong as it only takes 1 perk to give a safe area with 4 self-cares to your entire team. And I don't expect them to make it slower than self-care speed when at the moment it's at 16 seconds.
My point is you shouldn't balance this perk with tweaking the numbers, they should change the boon totem mechanic so that only survivors with boon perks equiped get benefits from the boon totem area, if you don't get boon totems perks it does nothing. Then you could keep the strong effects, not this no risk high reward that effects everybody in the team abomination they have created.
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Rng is king a totem is only as strong as it's spawn
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And I’m disagreeing with you because the point of these Boons in general is they make an aura. So why remove that core feature when you can balance the perk by tweaking the numbers instead?
It’s not like “Self Care” imposes a hard limit on the healing speed modifier for the Boon. If the current healing speed of the self care is too fast just turn the dial on that speed down until it isn’t. That balances the perk without changing the core of how it works.
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As long as there is no way to permanently remove boon perks from a trial without killing the survivor using them, boon perks are going to be stronger.
While most hexes individually have stronger effects, the consistently of having a strong effect active is stronger than an inconsistently strong perk.
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Yes they could keep the aura, and this aura can be used by people in the team that have boon perks on them. Why would you want to give survivors free perks? I simply can't understand it. The whole idea of boon totems being as strong as hexes but that can effect everyone even if they are not using the perk slot is designed by someone that hasn't put any thought on it, makes absolutely no sense to create such an aberration.
Either make them much weaker or make people have to have boon totems equiped to benefit from the auras. I prefer the second option, the first one would be just boring mediocre perks but that effect the whole team in an area. For example, if you make Circle of Healing longer than 32 seconds to heal it might become balanced, but a boring perk and very situational even though you could get value with good placing and being with a team with comms and maybe add botany or something else.
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A perk giving other survivors a boost isn’t an issue. Other perks do exactly that already, the only difference in that respect with a Boon is its centered on a point on the map versus being map wide or centered on a survivor, and that the killer can potentially temporarily disable the benefit.
So no, an aura giving boost to other survivors isn’t a problem. They just need to make sure the numbers are such that the boost isn’t overpowered.
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And how do you balance something that is binary like Shadow Step? You either have the effect or don't, there's no numbers to balance there. It seems like you are limiting the design potential of boon totems if you want to give the effect to everyone independently if they have the perk equipped or not, because the power can't be great.
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The main way is adjust the radius of Shadow Step. Too small a radius it’s definitely too weak, too large and it’s probably too powerful.
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I guess you are right, but then of course different boons would need to have different radius of effect. I think we'll just have to disagree, I hate area passive buffs in general in videogames because they allways have to be boring effects to be balanced (in this case its in area and OP).
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Hexes are a thousand times stronger but too easily countered by simply cleansing the totem while boons can be applied again and again.
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I agree there, I think eventually not all Boon will end up with the same radius.
I also agree with you that generally speaking passive buffs are leas interesting that things that add new play styles. That’s why I like things like Vanity Mirror for Meyers or fake pallets for Freddy, add-ons like those are way more entertaining than percentage boosts.
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Hey I tried looking for any comments you made on the subject but I haven't seen any. I was wondering if maybe you had some insight to share
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depends.
Thrill is much weaker than CoH, for example.
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