Was MMR a good addition to DbD?
hey all,
its been a while since MMR released now so we've all had some time to get accustomed to it.
since there has been quite a lot of controversy about it prior to its launch, i just wanted to quickly come by and see how the communities view on MMR has developed.
thank you for participating!
Was MMR a good addition to DbD? 86 votes
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Comments
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
MMR itself is hardly any different from the previous system. It hardly qualifies as an MMR system at all, and calling it that really is a misrepresentation of what we really have in DBD (this isn't a knock on any community members that choose to call it that, it's a knock on the devs for calling it an MMR system when it's really not). It really is almost no better than what we had before.
What is bad is the way that the devs went about implementing the system in the first place, which I just alluded to in that previous parentheses. The devs basically lied and tried to cover up how the system worked until they couldn't lie anymore because the data miners basically extrapolated this information from the game's files by force. It was a scummy way to put in the system and attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of the community because the devs really wanted to persuade us that this would be a positive thing.
And when I say it's no better than what we had before, that is the best case scenario. At best the system is more or less identical to what we had previously, and at worst it actually can be inconsistent with the opponents it finds for you in matchmaking. Which- now that I think about it, is still a lot like the previous system because that could also be inconsistent as well.
Not to mention they spent so much time and resources creating this system for matchmaking that most people in the community were at the very least doubtful of. I didn't really see all that many people who were truly excited for the implementation of an MMR system- even a working MMR system- there was a lot of doubt going on around the community and for very good reason. It's safe to say this wasn't a thing the community as a whole was asking for, and it's a system the devs themselves pushed for and tried to bring us around to and wasn't done by community demand or request. So you could also say this entire thing, just for little or no improvement at all, was a huge gigantic waste of time because even after it's said and done there are a lot of people that still aren't confident that the MMR system was the right move, or is even working as far as it's intended goals (AGAIN: It's not a real MMR system, so how can you accomplish real MMR goals with a fake MMR system??).
Overall it's been a very ######### situation. More often than not regardless of which side I try to look at it from, MMR seems to have been a bad decision with more negative impacts than positive ones. There are very few reasons to say that MMR was a good decision, let alone enough reasons to outweigh the negative ones (loss of trust / confidence in the dev team [add it to the list of reasons people are beginning to like them less and less], resources put into a system for over a year that doesn't even work, and the system that was created isn't even an accurate representation of player skill in the slightest).
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
i totally agree with pretty much everything you said there.
only one thing ill have to disagree on: i do think the MMR system is a functional MMR system - the issue here is, that this game is not compatible with an MMR system, which makes it look like the system was not functioning properly.
This isnt a game where you can just judge someones skill based on the outcome of their encounter with the opposing team. that thought process works in games like CS:GO where you have two equal teams go up against each other with the deciding factor in every 1v1 engagement being the players personal skill level - but thats not what DbD is. in a 1v1 encounter, the Killer is always supposed to beat the Survivor - that doesnt mean the Survivor was bad, thats just how the game is structured. At the same time, in DbD there are a LOT more factors going into skill than just the outcome - you might have been sacrificed, but your sacrifice might just as well have allowed everyone else to make it out. MMR however isnt capable of detecting that, so you lose points.
and i havent even started talking about all the unfair factors that go into winning and losing in this game that no one has control over - most notably RNG.
i just think this is overall not a game MMR is ever going to work in, no matter how much they try to polish the system.
and yeah its a joke that MMR is literally just a downgrade to the Emblem System. at least that one tried to take more into account than just whether you escaped or died.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
It would be if they went all the way and made MMR number public and try to make the game competitive ready.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
If it actually worked properly and an actual MMR system, then it would be fine.
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
It's unambiguously better than basing it off the emblem system, and introducing it was a good idea. It still needs some tweaks, though- I'd probably suggest a further softening of MMR loss if you get good emblem score/bloodpoints gain, so you don't get punished fully for doing well and losing at the last second.
Outside of a few edge cases, this system is definitely a little better than what we had before, which was really bad.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
Never should’ve been implemented in the game.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
No because it's a game balanced around low to average players.
You also have less skilled players escaping, and higher skilled getting 1 hooked. So you have a bunch of survivors who don't want to play solos because no one cares about each other because it doesn't affect their MMR. So you have more survivors only wanting to play in teams. Which mixed with their low MMR from solo queue games, they stomp low level killers.
Then you have a bunch of killers at high MMR, because of the way killer MMR works. Which means even more killers going against the best of the best SWFs and getting stomped, and this will happen for multiple games in a row before their MMR dips to a Level they're supposed to be at. And then after 3-4 games of getting 2-3k they're right back up there and have to repeat the process.
Which is why there's longer queue times, more people getting frustrated and leaving the game, and more killers just going afk all match. And despite what most people think, most killers don't want to just stomp babies. In fact it gets really boring and we hate it. But we also don't want to play against Oracle each match.
It's created this unhealthy state of the game where killers don't want to play, solo queue is a nightmare, and SWFs rule it all in easy mode.
They either need to go back to a more casual match making system, or start balancing around the higher tiers of play. Otherwise it's just gonna be this same state for a long time.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
The system we had before was bad. And somehow, MMR made it even worse.
At least the old system could still reward you for a good game even if you died. The current SBMM system is not truly Skill Based Matchmaking, it's Escape Based Matchmaking. If we actually had a legitimate MMR system that took things into account and was based off more things than just "did you escape or not" I'd be okay with it, but right now that's not what we have. Not even close. And I realize that's hard to implement because of how many things we have in the game now. But as bad as the old system was, it was better than this.
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
It is way better than Ranks.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
It wasn't ready for it.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
MMR is, pretty explicitly, a punishment for succeeding in the game in DBD, because escapes/kills don't actually measure skill - no matter how many dishonest and disingenuous people want to claim "the result is what matters"
MMR based on emblems is the best of both worlds, and it's what would have worked.
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
It was a bad addition purely because of how much dev time was taken adding it rather than fixing bugs or balance.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
The old emblem system encouraged interesting and risky gameplay the new MMR system Only takes into account whether you killed or survived. Survivor who hid and creeped around the map all game and survived =a win. A survivor who looped the killer for a few gens and pallet stunned a few times and then gets caught and face camped till death= loss. Watch the videos, watch the data mining, he’ll watch the Q&A with behavior that is really how the MMR is. They trick everyone with the blood point reward system making everyone think that nothing has changed and hide your mmr. What are we working towards? A grade that resets every month just as a prize for winning that anyone who play the game enough can achieve
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
Its better than the old system.
That being said it still needs a lot of work.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
I wanted to get a lot of playtime with the system before coming to my conclusion and after many many many games, I have decided that in my opinion - MMR is not a good addition.
Now, I have a lot of hours in this game and I would consider myself experienced but I wouldn't call myself 'good' but I always tried to have a good time win or lose by doing other things in the match; be it sacrificing myself so people get out, altruism, running meme builds so on and so forth but all of it just feels pointless when the game grades my 'skill' by if I escape or if I die. It makes doing anything other than holding M1 and dragging out chases as much as possible the only way to be 'good' at this game
Why care? You might ask - well I often find that when I try to have fun by running off-meta perks, or by not focusing on gens when I'm not being chased the game punishes me heavily for it.
MMR makes Altruism feel almost pointless, many many times I've tried to be altruistic - I die and the system goes "welp u died guess you're bad lol"
Even then I still get put with Blight/Nurse players who burn Macmillan offerings EVERY single game, who run the best addons, 4 slowdowns and play like it's a tournament. It's akin to 4 man SWFs burning Badham and bringing 4 strong medkits and 4 meta perks. Those two SHOULD be facing each other but they don't.
I'm not gonna throw tons and tons of games just to drop my MMR or make smurf accounts like some people are doing, that's pathetic.
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
I'm not sure I see where you're coming from on this one- isn't the problem with the MMR system that it only takes into account whether you succeeded, and not how much skill you put into doing so?
On top of that, the emblem system actually did punish you for succeeding, if you did it too quickly or too efficiently. Could you elaborate?
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
That is a problem with MMR, not the only problem. However, ranks/grades have never meant anything, so phooey on the Ranked matchmaking that came before too.
Thing is, the emblem score system already in the game and used for the rank/grade up and rank down system was a fairly good measure of trial interaction, save places where some killers/actions weren't calibrated correctly within the confines of the scoring events. I'm not saying the emblem system is perfect, by any means, and it definitely needs tuning - but it's at least more intensive, is no more exploitable than the current system under Escape-Based Match Making of Blendettes and facecamps being actively encouraged, and would serve as a better measure not just of results but of actual play.
To more completely summarize: a cumulative emblem-based MMR, where your own averages adjust your proportionate score relative to the averages of the others in the trial, seems to be where the sweet spot would be.
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
Well, I won't argue with the conclusion- I actually agree that a fusion of the MMR system as it stands and the emblem system is a good idea, though I'd probably go about it differently. The part I'm confused on is how the current system punishes you for succeeding in the game?
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Yes, MMR was a good addition to DbD.
mixed blessing.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
Get kills: get trials where it's harder to kill. Keep getting kills: either it gets so hard to get kills that you're getting bullied, or you hit the soft ceiling and deal with hackers on a daily basis.
Escape: get trials where it's harder to escape. Keep escaping: same story.
At least with Ranked we had a more even mix of potatoes and sweat squads. Now the game is either settling into strata, which does work for some, or it's rubberbanding for others like myself.
Addendum: I think a perfect MMR would not only take into account your present emblem score, past emblem average, and the averages of your teammates/opponent, it would ideally also calculate your placement based on which perks you run, which items survivors bring, and the various addons in the trial.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
The game wasn’t ready for it and the devs rushed it through anyways one of the biggest blunders
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
Nope. Thats exactly why they put it in.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
I'm not a fan. I'm not being matched with players of equal skill. My swf teammate and I are getting matched with players that previously would've been low rank because they play poorly - either by bad decisions or just hiding most of the match.
SBMM encourages game play that the emblem system punished. Camping at 5 gens and hiding for the match in old system were punished. While you could come across those play styles in higher ranks it was less likely because it would cause you to lose pips. SBMM instead rewards those playstyles while punishing those that don't play that way.
Can even tell by the scores at the end that it is not good match making - previously would've said matchmaking is broken because while emblem system wasn't perfect it still encouraged better gameplay to reach certain ranks and your scores would be fairly even if someone didn't quit/get tunneled. Now you're just matched with either people that recently died or recently escaped depending on your last match so the players that actually try are being matched with those that hide causing these noticeable differences in BP. Killer will get a 4k - teammate and I will have 15k+ BP while our teammates that were not tunneled/camped out will have less than 10k BP or even 5k/less because they weren't doing anything aside from hiding, losing chases, or leading the killer to others. There are times where we died but teammates escaped and it's same thing - we have 15k+ BP but the teammates that escaped had less than 10k.
We run into way more survivors working with the killer. Killer works with them to kill the team and let's them escape so they both increase in MMR. Fun match for those two but unfun match for rest.
Dying we get stuck in deathloop until either get decent teammates or killer that's trying to drop mmr. With the old emblem system if I died multiple matches in a row it didn't feel bad if I had good teammates. The only times it felt bad was when matchmaking gave me teammates it shouldn't have (like it feels now), I had teammates working with killer, or we had a killer that just tunneled me out. The 50/50 escapes/deaths aren't feeling good. My deaths don't feel deserved when I see the end game BP that justifies my thoughts that my teammates were useless. Escaping doesn't feel good when I've been stuck in a deathloop and the killer I get matched with isn't good. I'd rather a good team and good killer, not this crappy mishmash we have now.
Ultimately it's made this game WAY less fun. My swf teammate and I will play maybe 3-5 matches and then switch over to For Honor (thanks dbd crossover for introducing us) - we end up only playing DBD a couple times a week because it's just miserable experience with SBMM. We play hoping maybe it'll be better but it's not. I miss the old emblem/rank system.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
Ah yes, I clearly loved a clearly non competition game to have an MMR that emphasizes tryharding.
Also this MMR is way worse than the pipe system, I don't know why they didn't tweak the old system.
Seriously, 2 years for that ? Are you ######### kidding me ? I mean, wow, just fire the guy who had this idea, and the other guy who approved it.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
MMR is not the problem. Game balance is the problem. If the game was balanced MMR would be fine.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
Skill-based matchmaking is a good idea in general, but the way BHVR has implemented it just absolutley terrible.
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
Couldn’t agree more. I think people don’t really understand how the sbmms works. It’s literally escapes and kills. I have been playing this game forever and reached rank one fast every reset on old emblem system. I know the game well and now I’m being matched with people hiding in the corners of the map and literally urban evading every where. They run away when they hear chase music instead of finishing a really important or close to done Gen not realizing that the killers tunnel vision chasing someone else. These have got to be new players or just really crappy teammates. But if they escape off the hard work of their teammates the system rewards them. Old rmblem system was better. Rewarded good gameplay/ interesting game play. Same for killers tunneling and camping is now rewarded whereas before you were punished
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No, MMR was not a good addition to DbD.
I play super altruistic builds because that's what's fun for me to play, but that means I end up dying for teammates a lot. With the old system, I got rewarded for it because I would still get really good scores by the end of the game, but with the new system, it's just been kinda awful.
I'll have a few good games, but more often than not, I end up babysitting new players, getting tunneled into the ground, or going up against new killers and feeling like crap when the whole team stomps them.
The old system wasn't perfect but I got way better matches overall. I have no interest in changing up my playstyle to fit the new MMR. I shouldn't have to, especially when I've noticed a lot less altruism going around in general. The number of times I've gotten downed at the very beginning of the game and was left to die on the first hook (when the killer isn't even camping), or got chased away from hook and no one else went to get the hooked person, is ridiculous.
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I have no opinion on MMR yet.
To be honest, I'm not really sure. Matches seem to feel fairer I guess. Although, it's still kind of inconsistent. Not quite sure of how I feel about it yet.
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