Wraith feels like D tier again
I haven't played killer for a while because since SBMM every game is stressful, in fact i haven't played Dbd much, maybe every 2-3 days for 2 hours, but only survivor with friends. Now i played killer (my main Wraith only) for a whole evening because of the halloween challenges. It was not a fun experience...
I played him only once after his nerf and thought it's not that much of a change, but now i feel his big lunge was necessary to keep up with all the power creep ranged killers the game got lately. The new boon totems basically counter the hit&run playstyle and chasing with Wraith against good players (i can't see my own rating but everyone had like >1.5k hours) will make you lose the game immediately if you're not running a chase build. The only 3k-4k's i got were on indoor maps or when someone threw (DCing etc.) in the beginning or when i was running best add ons + Ruin + Pop.
I don't want to run the strongest possible builds every game, one of his main assets was his versatility when it comes to builds, but i feel he is very weak against decent survivors because you can easily counter him. Now people will say "everyone is weak against 4 decent survivors" but i feel that the ranged killer meta can hold up if you know what you're doing (seen from my own survivor experiences), while the m1 killers have a hard time when everyone is sweating. You can just throw every pallet and you won't get punished for it because everyone with a decent SBMM rating will do gens whenever possible.
Comments
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Agreed. I was wrong about the lunge nerf not doing much, holy it is horrible to play with. I play Wraith with a chase playstyle so it makes his anti-loop 10 times less enjoyable. It doesn't affect hit & run Wraith but it affects chase Wraith for sure.
Hope they reconsider the nerf.
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It's likely due to boons, as healing is Wraiths counter, since he can only really m1. I don't think the buff should come back as it just made it too easy to get anyone, cloak then hit cloak then hit, not much counterplay especially with all the laggy hit validation.
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So the killer is D tier but with the best addons and 2 perks you 4k against surv with 1000hours. And you want buffs so you always win with these addons and 2 perks and you also win with other stuff. Yes, survs are overpowered and this forum is not a killer forum
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It's not wraith, it's any killer that is below A tier.
B tier killers struggle hard vs competent gen focused survivors who loop decently if they're not playing godly their killer.
Anything below B is just pure pain vs actul good team, it's not impossible thanks to DBD sometimes giving you good RNG but if you do win, it's usually not very fun match where you either relied on them doing something very dumb or played dirty a lot and it worked out somehow.
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I play lots of Wraith and usually still do well, averaging between 2 and 3 kills, likewise consistently going against players at 1k hours and above. With add-on combinations such as Windstorm + Swift Hunt, Swift Hunt + Swift Hunt, Swift Hunt + Shadow Dance, Shadow Dance + Serpent, Coxcombed + All-Seeing, his chase game is really solid even without dedicated chase builds (though Bamboozle should usually still be used). I also don't always use Ruin or Pop, for a long while I was using a semi-memey build of Devour, Undying, Haunted, NOED, and lately I mostly use Bamboozle, Corrupt, Deadlock, No Way Out.
That said, I do agree that the lunge nerf hurt, and I also think it was wholly unnecessary, and indeed something done much more so with a lower level of play in mind. Revert it please BHVR. Oh, and if you aren't removing the lightburn mechanic (or giving us an add-on to do so), at least reduce the stun time. Same for pallet stuns while cloaked. Wraith is really not strong enough to warrant having these uniquely punishing downsides.
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He played killer all night and clearly states only game I could win was indoor maps. There are 3 indoor map (Right? I think I'm right) so the odds are slim to get them.....Meaning majority of games he lost. I don't know.....Maybe read better?
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Either you're playing against the best survivors in the world on a consistent basis or you're exaggerating. I play every killer and do well with most of them usually. Sometimes I run into the really good survivor teams. Lots of hyperbole on this forum. It's no wonder the devs ignore most people on this forum.
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Here's the thing about skill based match making and nerfs. The MMR that you had very naturally factors in the strength of the killer. When a killer gets nerfed you can find yourself going verses survivors that you can no longer win due to the changes. This has nothing to do with whether the changes were good or bad but a natural side effect. After losing some games you'll be put at a more appropriate MMR.
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The “laggy hit validation” favors survivors, in case you weren’t aware.
And no, it his pre-nerf lunge wasn’t unfair or too easy to get hits… you could easily counter it by going to windows or leaving a tile. Now he is a clunky killer with no redeeming qualities.
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The devs really love nerfing Killers with the Hillbilly technique. Make them unfun to play as
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They should AT LEAST revert the nerf to the uncloaking speed. If anyone remembers, this nerf was to compensate the buff to his cloaked MS and the buff to his post uncloak boost. Now the post uncloak boost is the same as before, so it makes sense to at least revert the nerf to the uncloaking speed.
Basekit Wraith is now worse than old Windstorm Wraith, they made him low tier again.
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This nerf is what made me stop maining Wraith, it literally butchered him. You can't keep up at all with good survivors because you just don't get enough distance anymore.
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They nerfed his chase forcing you to play hit and run, just as they make heal meta a thing. It is like they want him to be as ######### as possible.
I dropped him entirely.
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Tumbstone Myers can get 4k quite easy too, is he good for it?
no
and what addons are that good on wraith? His counter-play never change...
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It was nice to get nerf in same patch with CoH, which Wraith is probably ######### most against it...
It just hurts every time you whiff around loop, because of that nerf...
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Wraith is braindead easy to play, so in that regard I'm a bit glad they did something about him. But he was never 'a wee bit op'.
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I don't get the idea of "If a character is easy to play they should be bad." that's just god awful design.
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I'm not sure if it was the loadout or everything just felt in place, i just used this stuff for one game. If people would cosistently use iri and purple add ons on their killers (combined with best possible perk loadout), tier lists would look different.
I lost ~75% of my games. Before MMR i was winning more than i was losing. Not saying this was fair, if you read my comments i'm actually criticizing "killer mains" a lot.
maybe high mmr i dont know
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He shouldn't be bad. But when you have characters like Pinhead that take considerably more skill in terms of hitting people with his ability, but get little to no reward out of it then I'd rather they address these killers first.
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Yeah, I had a pretty poor Wraith match just today, the nerf to his post decloak lunge really hurt his anti-loop game. Lost 3 gens before I even got my first down because the 2 different people I chased managed to pallet my face due to his poor decloak lunge.
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no that is not why it got changed. one of drawbacks of purple wind-storm which people asked to be base-kit is reduced movement when cloaking. they just did exactly what some killer asked for: base-kit purple windstorm.
he is still playable, he just was never good vs good players. no stealth killer ever was.
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It was 100% needed. He feels much more fair to play as/against.
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he was strong when played sweaty/ cheesy against random red rank solo squads, but the healing boons are a strong counter against him, having everyone injured was one of his main strengths and also requirements for success. I think this is a stronger "nerf" to him than his actual nerf.
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He had to be nerfed. His power is for sneaking around the map, not for getting free downs. He's a little more bearable although he's still extremely difficult to deal with. With certain perks, he's still overpowered. Starstruck and All Seeing? Its not pretty.
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I played him with Brown/Yellow addons and I could feel the change. I couldn't catch survivors cause the speed buff is minimal now.So I still have to adapt to It.
He might still be good with better addons though, I need to grab some.
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It only benefits dead hard, lmao.... the rest I can stick a huge DL on as killer and get easy downs at pallets/windows.
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I feel that wraith is D tier again because of the healing meta, completly destroys its playstyle. The nerf to his lunge is just adding injury to insult.
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yes those 0.25 did him dirty he nedded to have the all seing and silent bell nerfed but instead of that they changed his basekit to make him garbage typical behaviour stuff
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He was pretty fun to play against despite his lunges but now it's just too easy kiting him around.
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This is coming from a 3k hour solo survivor main so take it with a grain of salt I guess....
In my opinion the most recent incarnation of the Wraith feels much closer to the old, old Wraith than its previous zoom-zoom model, and that is NOT a good thing. The zoom-zoom model needed tweaks - it suffered from the worst possible issue, namely his chase interaction was way, way too short to allow newer/less-experienced players to properly learn how to counter him - but what we ended up with is again a bit underpowered.
Otz had the absolute best suggestion for buffing&nerfing Wraith: Make his uncloak/lunge tremendously faster when uncloaking outside of POV of survivors BUT also have it suffer a substantial penalty when doing so right in the open and inside of POV of survivors, i.e. similar to how ghostface's mechanic works. (This should of course also work mid-chase with regards to looking behind you).
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“going to windows and leaving a tile”
Leaving a loop is usually a guaranteed free hit because of how fast he moves. That is excluding the wraith bringing speed or uncloaking add-ons.
A decent wraith will block the windows and prevent you from vaulting.
inb4 “you just got outplayed get better”.
The same can be said about you not being able to get a hit post lunge nerf.
If you’re gonna argue about why the nerf should be reverted at least make proper arguments.
This is literally just “do bones”.
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try running devour. it's lots of fun.
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A few thoughts:
- Wraith was indeed overnerfed, for the same reason that other B and C tier killers (Pinhead, Slinger) were/are being nerfed. Even though they have trouble in mid-high level play, they can be difficult for newer/less skilled groups to deal with. They should have been compensated elsewhere, but...it is what it is.
- Wraith in particular is in a very rough state, as CoH boons are essentially a blind counter to him, and other attrition based killers.
That said:
- Being an M1 killer is a rough job at present. Boons are just...not well thought out, and a lot of maps are extremely bad for M1 killers, with a ton of pseudo-infinites, ultra safe pallets and freebie gens.
- If you want to play an attrition killer right now, you'll need to run a dedicated 'anti-boon' setup. Either instadown capability (DH+Undying, NOED+NWO, Starstruck+x carry perks) or pressure (Plaything+Retribution is a favorite).
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No, it does affect hit and run Wraith. Can't split the damage if you can't even get a hit, which you won't against good survivors because of his ruined lunge.
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He felt bad to play even before the nerf. There is clear counterplay against him, which is easy to experience if you're high MMR, in that he has to come out of cloak to do anything, and when he does he slows down so much that you have tons of options. He uncloaks under a pallet, you can run away or drop it on him. He uncloaks near a window loop, you can vault it and he has to go around. He tries to uncloak while you're outpositioned, he's slowed down so much that by holding forward, you probably make it to the nearest loop anyway. He's a huge embarrassment of a killer.
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"doesn't affect hit & run Wraith" is for sure an exaggeration, but it's still not much compared to how much it affected Wraith's chase game.
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well, against VERY good survivors he struggled like every m1 killer, they just have to be careful and pre-drop stuff and guess right in some situations... but i think he felt good, much better than before, i felt like i have a chance in most games. Purple All-Seeing was OP, i'm ok with it getting nerfed. But now, i don't know, it feels different...
You can't block windows in time in some situations, it depends. I mean Otz is right, taking your time to set up the approach and going around (like a ghostface) is better than just zooming into them, but more than often you have to waste a lot of time for little outcome.
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Leaving a loop is not a guaranteed free hit since most maps have tons of filler pallets or connecting loops. Also, good Wraiths can’t just “block windows”. For example, if a Wraith is cloaked and I’m at shack or a jungle gym I can just wall hug and vault windows to waste his time until he uncloaks because that window won’t get entity blocked.
Now they made an M1 “surprise attack” killer WORSE at his specialty… surprise attacks. That’s just garbage decision making by the devs.
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No that's generally good design. Weaker killers should be easier to play and stronger killers more difficult. I don't think wraith's lunge nerf was necessary though.
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Always has been.
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Really? Is it that bad?
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The movement speed while uncloaking nerf prior to 5.3.0 combined with the uncloak speed boost nerf is horrible to play with. It makes his anti-loop 10 times worse with his already below-average anti-loop prior to this patch. It doesn't feel very natural either.
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that is upsetting
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