http://dbd.game/killswitch
M1 killers is how BHVR should have Balanced the Game
M1 Slasher killers were the basis for the game but the game was never Balanced for the them. 4v1 means M1 has no chance, Map Design means M1 has no chance.
Had the game been fair to M1 killers we probably wouldn't have the huge power discrepency we have between killers. Had the base game been properly tweaked we probably wouldn't have a 2016 Killer like Nurse be the 1 killer every other killer should beat.
The Nurse exists out of necessety, M1 killers couldn't compete and Billy turned out to not be the answer, therefore Nurse was created, someone who could ignore the basic rules entirely and ruin the game. This is where things go south super fast. Now that you have this unfair killer you had to stop doing whatever worked for Nurse and redo other killers cause the power discrepency was already too extreme. But did BHVR went back and redesign things to accomodate M1 killers!? Nope they just made newer M1 killers to circumvent the original issues. Thus the Band Aid Fixing Begins. Myers saves DbD from being an obscure game but fails to save the gameplay. Despite Myers newer M1 design the core gameplay still doesn't accomodate M1 killers so the Hag gets released 2 months later, another newer M1 model, then Doctor, another newer M1 model... All these spins on the basic killer concept yet they've failed successfuly because the game never changed it's core aspectcs to accomodate M1 killer.
Nowe post Ghostface they've abandoned M1 killers cause it's hopeless to make them work without changing the core game so instead of doing actual improvements they just recycle ranged killers based on community ideas...
Killers are like Terminators, there's the T-800 aka M1 killer then there's the T1000- Nurse and then there's everything else in between that is better than a regular Terminator but never reached the heights of the T 1000 - Nurse.
Comments
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To be fair they shouldn’t balance the game around vanilla basic attack killers with literally no ability because the whole point is all the killers are supposed to have powerful abilities. If the game was set up so that a powerless 115% killer with no ability was an even match for equally skilled survivors then there would be no way for killers to have powerful abilities without breaking the game. The game must by necessity be designed so that a 115% killer with no ability is at a disadvantage to the survivors, and it’s their ability that puts them in balance.
Of course not all killer abilities are equally effective, your mileage may vary between a good Blight player and a good Legion player and a good Wraith player. But in the end the goal must be that killers are balanced on a case by case basis with their specific abilities taken into account, and with the understanding that a killer with no ability is playing at a disadvantage compared to the survivors.
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Why should a killer need a super power to compete? That's a reason why the game doesn't work. If you don't use super powers then you can't do ######### and even with super powers some killers can't do #########. That's exactly the problem. The game is so Unbalanced at core level that even super powers don't solve the issues with the most basic aspect of killers. It's why M1 killers died and it's why Nurse was created and it's why nobody has ever been or will ever be on par with Nurse. Nurse is the answer to the Unbalance but they can't just make every killer be like Nurse otherwise they'll have to give Survivors powers aswell, which then resets the whole thing to the begining, a Circle.
Had they made base killer able to compete then they could custom tailor powers without them being too opressive like Nurse or too weak like Ghostface. How can you have a killer that has to expose himself to hit survivors if exposing himself cancels his power!? How is that good design!?
Had they made the basic aspect of playing killer Balanced and Fair, you wouldn't have broken or useless powers, you wouldn't have broken or useless-add-ons. You had a basic working game with a solid foundation to add up on. But BHVR skipped the solid foundation part and just added things when they realised, if they've realised, that things aren't working.
Anyone that can be good with just M1 killers, knowing how terribly limited they are, is a much better player than someone who just plays Nurse Spirit or Blight and wins 7/10 games.
The advantages of playing a kilelr that can do something vs an M1 killer is too great and the advantage survivors have over M1 killers is even greater than that. This is definetly not okay. But now it's too late BHVR will never go back and we'll never get DbD 2 to be a thing let alone a better game. So just find a game that works at basic levels and then build it from there.
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...Why should a killer need a power to compete? Because with m1 only killers the game would literally be everyone being chased by a killer that looks different. And it is literally part of the reason this unbalanced game works, without it there really isn't a game. But most of the weaker killers need to be reworked badly.
And an m1 killer isn't even terrible, at best a killer only using their m1 ability can still chase survivors. The real problem that makes their jobs difficult are dead hard and unbalanced tile placements. Oni is the perfect example. It doesn't matter how good you are as Oni, if survivors can play safe long enough for you to get your power at 2 gens left, then you are kind of toast. This is because he is an m1 killer outside of his power, and he needs hits to get it.
TL;DR If the game was balanced around m1 killers, it would get incredibly boring. A killer using their power is what the game was designed around for a reason. Most of the weaker killers need to be reworked to actually be strong.
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Doubt they even expected the game to have a skill ceiling in the first place. It was just hide and seek scary game back then...then people found out you could cheese killers with windows then it escalated from there.
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Emmm sorry but every single game works like u described. Only dead don't improve with time. I doubt they didn't expect players get better.
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What do you mean every single game wasn't designed with a skill ceiling in mind? Lol you have a lot of awful takes but this is your best one.
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Bring me a single game u can't get better at.
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So you focused on the word skill ceiling and ignored the rest afterwards?
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You...aren't wrong.
The game has turned into an arms race between SWFs using boons, souped up toolboxes, crazy loops and remaining pseudo infinites/map glitches/imbalances and killers who almost always now have to have an anti-loop mechanic.
It means that a lot of older killers are sort of left in the dust and solos have a rough time of it.
That said, it is what it is, and it's not going to change without substantial alterations to the game at a fundamental level. Which isn't realistic.
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Candy crush?
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Chess- person vs computer AI?
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Because the whole design is based on killers having powerful unique abilities. If they made it so killers were a coin toss to win without using their abilities then they would crush survivors using those abilities. It absolutely has to be balanced assuming the abilities are getting used, otherwise there’s no balance at all.
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Why should a killer need a super power to compete?
although you're correct, that the game would technically be more balanced and healthier if they just balanced around m1 killers being strong, then no new killer would actually be appealing because their powers would have to be severely limited and boring. the game would be more balanced but it would be far less fun overall, even if modern killer design is unenjoyable to face. not being able to create fun, powerful killers would kill the game.
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You said it yourself- " modern killer design is unenjoyable to face ". So even if there's new designs they still don't work for killer players and they still aren't enjoyable for Survivors to play against. Again had the basic aspect of killers and the game in general been Balanced then playing killer would be enjoyable for both sides. Killers need unenjoyable powers so they can off-set the fact that playing killer is horrible.
Is a Balanced game Fun? The basics of a game can and should be Balanced. Whatever each individual character can do should be Balanced aswell. Will there be Characters better suited for each situation? Yes there will. Will there be one character who is overall weaker and 1 who is overall stronger? Yes there will. That's how it works in every game, no matter the genre. So, Yes a Balanced game is Fun because you know that the result is determined by how good you do instead of the killer you picked, the build you picked, the survivors you got, the builds they had, the map, the spawns, etc
Example: Every fighting game character is OP and Weak at the same time, it's a matter of match ups. In DbD this doesn't exist, Nurse is without a doubt a much stronger killer than everyone else by a very large margin, it doesn't matter if Blight is also S tier or whoever is S tier because the difference in power between characters in the same Tier is Huge and the difference in power between Top Tier and Bottom tier is 3, 4, maybe 5 times as big so there already is a huge unbalance just in killers alone then there's everything else to off set that gap even more. It's why Nurse is Top Tier without questions asked since she's been released, her design is meant to break the game cause M1 killers can't do anything
People were AMAZED at Wraith's buffs and every Survivor and their cousin was like "Wraith OP" and i ask you what really changed about Wraith!? Nothing. He plays exactly the same, same strengths, same weaknesses, the reason people thought Wraith got any better was because Good players were using a character nobody used and it Blew up in Popularity BEFORE THE FINAL MMR TEST. Because come MMR and where are the Wraith Players!? I played Wraith in the 2 tests before MMR was officially implemented and i had a horrible time, in both tests i deranked twice before i could win a match. Why does MMR correlate to Basics of the game? Because if the basics of the game were Balanced or at least fair then even in MMR i'd have a chance at a win.
And this is where we get to your point and my point. Wraith's Power is not enough aka it's not unenjoyable enough and when he isn't using his power he is even weaker and why? Because the game isn't Balanced in the basics, it's not Balanced for when killers can't use their power and each killer power is and has to be Balanced individually, which creates such a big gap in power level. There is no General killer Balance, there's only individual killer Balance based on their individual power, this is a problem. It's the reason why Killer designs get unenjoyable.
My final point is killer's powers should not be overused, they shouldn't be why you win. A killer's power should be used sparringly and skillfully which doesn't happen in DbD. Prime example, what's the first thing you do as Ghostface? You immediatly use Nighshroud when the match starts. How do you play GF without using Nightshroud? GF's biggest weapon is getting rid of his Red Stain and TR and you're using that as much as possible so you can be where survivors aren't expecting you but the thing is even in NighShroud you're STILL and JUST an M1 killer. And then Nighshroud has so manny weaknesses that playing with it or without it is virtually the same. So how is GF a good killer when his power changes nothing, he's still just the basic M1 killer but the game isn't Balanced for M1 killers. That's just a conflict of interests. You either have Killers like Nurse or GF, you can't do both and have the game Balanced for both. If the game is Balanced for M1 killers than Nurses ability is made even stronger, if the game is made for killers like Nurse then what chance does a killer like GF has!?
There's a very Big conflict within DbD. Throwing killer designs at the game doesn't work but that's what DbD did. Instead of reshaping the game they just did different killer designs and Perks to "Balance" the game. They avoided the proper solution just for the sake of shock value from their designs.
Trapper is a fair killer to play against, he uses his power in a skillfull manner and then proceeds to play the basics until there's an opportunity to make his power work for him. Why did we ditch this? You can say Trapper only has so manny spots where he can put his Traps to get effective use of them but that's where skill as Trapper comes in, place them on the other side, or corner to prevent them from making an accurate guess. The more you do this the more careful survivors need to be and the more careful they are the more ground as M1 killer you get. The only issue here is that Trapper doesn't get any time to do this properly because not only was Trapper very limited himself but the Survivors can get their objective done and escape before Trapper has a chance to do anything. Trapper is a solid killer design and Balance choice for the game, the issue is the game isn't made to accomodate Trapper.
Trapper would be a far better character in VHS for the simple factor that Monsters in VHS don't have any time pressure. Teens can't win without interacting with the Monster and in this scenario Trappers ability to set Traps around would limit Teens objective play and escape routes. Trapper much like Doll Master would become a very strong character once they've set up.
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What are you talking about?
Billy and Nurse are both the earliest Killers in the game and both are far from M1 Killers xD They werent created out of necessity they where ALREADY done after the Beta of dbd was out, they just needed fine tuning like hitboxes etc.
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M1 killers definitely have the short end of the stick, but they still have a chance. Every killer has a power of some description.
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Balancing around M1 is missing the point. Powers being skill shots or 1v1 counters is boring. Every killer should warp the core game in some way unique to them.
A good example of this is Doctor, who puts madness on survivors that can be reduced but never actually removed. It's a low level effect, but it makes skill checks every so slightly harder for the whole game. Plague forces players to use fountains instead of normal healing and doing so makes her power stronger, so it's a give-and-take. Survivors fall asleep against Freddy and have to wake up or be vulnerable to his powers (though he's been thoroughly nerfed so that's far less of a thing). Pinhead forces survivors to go out and solve the lament configuration at the risk of becoming the next chase themselves.
EVERY killer should warp the core game like that. Survivors should see random shimmers in the air when playing against Wraith, to keep them always on their toes. Pig should never run out of traps so that survivors are always messing with boxes. Trapper's traps should automatically set themselves so survivors can't just disable the 3 he actually has time to set. Huntress should move faster around female survivors but female survivors get a longer hook timer (since she's trying to rescue girls but accidentally ends up killing them). Hag should spawn a ton of extra 'fake' hex totems around the map to hide her black magic. Survivors infected by Nemesis should transmit the infection to other survivors if they get too close to one another. And so forth.
Basically, the game should play differently in some meaningful way beyond just how chases are run. Killers shouldn't just be "this guy has a knife but this guy has an axe." Make the stage itself reflect the killer occupying it and give every match a different feel than the one previous.
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The game isn't Balanced for Doctor, whatever Doctor can do isn't much, even his anti-looping is on the lower spectrum of anti-looping abilities and his Passive Madness is a mere incovenience much like Mending, you're never realistically going to die because of Madness or Mending thus realistically they rarely help the killer.
Trapper already warps how looping goes, same as Doctor but they're still M1 killers. Just because they can provide different paths or different interactions doesn't mean they are in control, doesn't mean they are forcing Survivors into something. Why do Freddy's spam snares on loops? Why do Clowns spam bottles on loops? Because a single use of a killers power is meaningless.
So using your power is meaningless all that there is left is the fundamentals of the game but since those are just non existing then there's no ground to have M1 killers work which is why ever since Ghostface we've always had killers with range options, with tons of anti-looping.
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