My thoughts of the current dbd

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It used to give me a rush of being a blood thirsty killer, as I used to feel like using different perk builds on killer was fun.

Now with MMR it punish you for being creative with builds and I'm basically forced to play with the same meta builds and force to use max MMR killers. It's honestly boring after awhile.

Killers are leaving or switching roles as killer is the most stressful part of the game. Console players are turning off their cross play because they don't want to play against hackers, honestly it's funny how the devs aren't doing anything about it. But did something against modding.

Then again the devs only care for money that the new player base (survivor) brings in.

Reasons why we're getting the artist is because the devs realize that killer mains are upset and they need to keep killer mains happy for a short time, to add a high MMR killer.

Of course the devs will nerf this killer to the ground like they always do with all their killers.

Sorry I didn't mean to rant that is just how I feel about the game and where it's heading.

Comments

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
    edited November 2021
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    A few things:

    • If you want to play with more chill builds, do so. You'll lose some games, but so what? Eventually you'll settle at an MMR where you can play more chill. That's exactly what I've done and I'm having a lot of fun.
    • Yes, killers are too stressful to play for a lot of people at times. It's a frustrating role because you don't dictate the pace of the game, and are constantly under pressure. This comes down to maps and the survivor base just getting too sophisticated not to play loops well or flee effectively. About half the killer roster needs a serious buff/rework.
    • I also feel the need to rant sometimes. This game is a snowbally affair, and sometimes you'll get several stompy games in a row. It...sucks. But eventually it'll even out and you'll get the odd winning streak that makes you feel like a monster.
    • I really hope the Artist doesn't get nerfed. What we need to do is raise weaker killers up so every high MMR game isn't the same handful of killers.
    • Survivor queues are long now, but a big part of that (I think) is that MMR and killers actually having match-making protections now (they didn't for a long time) means that it won't just throw a 7000 hour nightmare up against a bunch of 40 hour Megs, and won't throw a stacked SWF against me.
  • jarjargist21
    jarjargist21 Member Posts: 444
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    Here's the thing. MMR keeps moving forward and killers you hardly play with is at the same level as the killer you play the most with. It's literally impossible for chill games anymore. Look when ever I play killer the wait is instant. When I play survivor it take 10 to 17 minutes to find a match with and without swf.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    Yes.

    The fact that the MMR of a killer you haven't played for 3 weeks gets pegged to the MMR of your highest killer is patently absurd. That needs to change.

    Regarding chill games - you'll unfortunately have to 'shed' some MMR to do it. Which means you'll have to lose. Maybe get some of the BP 'nerf me' addons and run BBQ, Distressing etc. so that you'll get something out of the equation.

    Unfortunately, a lot of high MMR players are going to have tougher games now because they are being put up against more even opponents, which at the high-end of things means that the meta is somewhat set in stone. That said, this does mean that their former opponents who are much lower MMR have a much fairer time of it.

  • mrmain21
    mrmain21 Member Posts: 48
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    Mmr was put in place basically for solo Q because the majority of killers where already running the super sweaty builds. As was shown by the dev statistics, solo q was getting dominated most of the time. According to the devs mmr has made a difference in those statistics which is good, and a step in the right direction.

    Now they may come and fix other issues as they are gaining new information based on the matchmaking, they are also making an effort to change the meta.

    Its slow but I'm optimistic that they have more information than anyone on the forums and will take the initiative to bring it out level assuming survivors are always winning like the forums suggest.

    The games are sweatier at high mmr killer and I think there should be a casual mode. The mode would have extremely limited perks if not no perks or addons aloud. That would be the only way to really make it casual or you would just have sweaty people joining casual to win.

    There's always the option to drop mmr and play how you want to have fun, many already do, killers and survivors included. But alot of people also like the competitive nature at the top, if your playing vs 4 really good survivors your going to have to play really good and sweaty to 2k, that is exactly what the dev kinda indicate they are shooting for.

    As for people switching roles, I haven't noticed basically any cue time differences. People always come to forums or reddit and spread fear but I've never seen an in game difference on US east, other than hourly difference.

    P.s dev kept autocorrecting to devil and made me chuckle.

  • jarjargist21
    jarjargist21 Member Posts: 444
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    It's just easier to quit this game and move to a better game, like VHS as those devs actually listens to all the base instead of one side of the game.

  • SunsetSherbet
    SunsetSherbet Member Posts: 1,607
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    The devs believe they can keep the game alive by just chasing new players forever and not caring at all about current players or retaining them. This can work for a finite time. Eventually you run out of people willing to come to a 5+ year old game with a terrible rep.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
    edited November 2021
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    Shrug.

    If VHS attracts you, then by all means go and enjoy it. Don't play games that you aren't having fun with.

    I'm probably going to play it too. And I wonder what they are going to do to ensure fairer matches.

    I don't think this game has a terrible rep, BM in-game community aside. It's only getting more popular - numbers are up from 35k to 50k on Steam alone, that's an enormous gain. I predict that we'll hit 60k by this time next year.

    I also don't think that giving high MMR players the ability to dookie on intermediate/lower MMR players at-will is something that's sustainable either.

    I guess I'm just...puzzled by the MMR complaints. Some of them are perfectly accurate - new killers should have a fresh MMR. Survivor SBMM needs to be more nuanced than 'died' or 'escaped'. The game desperately needs more people to play killer.

    However a lot of them really do seem to amount to 'I miss playing against much less skilled opponents' - and to me, that's not a positive thing.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,216
    edited November 2021
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    My thoughts on current DBD are just one word, really:

    [BAD WORD]

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • jarjargist21
    jarjargist21 Member Posts: 444
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  • Leatherface1990
    Leatherface1990 Member Posts: 718
    edited November 2021
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    XBOX ONE only here. Forget the tryharding hackwads, flickaronis and keyboard warriors. I love sending voice messages to potatoes too on XB1.

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    I really curious where you are getting this info that the devs supposedly said mmr has made a difference in killers build cause I play both sides pretty much 50/50 and nowadays I see more meta builds then ever

    Before I would say every 1/10 games someone would bring a fun build

    Now I would say 1/30 or 1/40 games do I see anything other then meta

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    Point 1: that's great and all but it just sucks I gotta play 25 games on pig to get anyone anywhere near my level on her just because my trapper has to be max mmr

    Point 2:I would heavily agree that I don't really think gen speed is the problem ik you didn't mention it but everyone points that out when I agree with you it's just that maps need to be balanced more and more killers need buffs, ######### when was the last time they buffed a killer? Trapper recently who's been in the game since the beginning and wraith who they buffed only to revert the change lol

    Point 3: I agree as well at high mmr all there is, is top Tiers with meta perks all the way around

    Point 4: idk everyone claims sbmm works great for them but I swear I can play 15 games and get stomped in all and still run into swf beamer squads

    And I can also pubstomp 10 games in a row and still run into survivors with only 100-300 hours can't be just me right?

  • mrmain21
    mrmain21 Member Posts: 48
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    I guess my experience just differs from you, I also play roughly 50/50 and the only difference really is I have harder killer games and better teammates as survivor. Thats not 100 percent though, I still get the occasional potatoes. Most of the time I get them when I play survivor vs when I'm playing killer I expect most of them to be quite good.

  • SunsetSherbet
    SunsetSherbet Member Posts: 1,607
    edited November 2021
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    I never hear good things about this game and the last person I knew who was going to return decided not to since it's not worth getting DDOSed and swatted. Also source on the game growing? Because there's 35k people in game on PC right now which is quite a bit lower than when RE released.


    Edit: Actually I just went and looked at the steam charts. In June the game averaged 48,765 players. By July it was up to 61k. It is now at 48,100 players. From july to August the game lost 18% of its players on steam. The Trend seems to show it was beginning to grow, and now it's strangely cratering down over the past months until we're back where we were at the start of Summer. We've lost around 9 or so percent of players since SBMM went live according to steam charts. Obviously I cannot comment on console.


    The game has more players than it did a year ago but it's now losing players from the high it had earlier in the year. Honestly if it keeps at this rate it will have lost everything it gained in the past year.

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    I mean that's great and all and I'm glad it's working for you I hope it keeps working for you 🤟

    But how often do you see meme builds nowadays tho? Like when was the last time you saw flipflop or break out and saboteur?

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
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    I don't really understand this argument. VHS has never had a patch. Hell it entered closed beta like a day ago.

    They litteraly didn't have a chance yet to not listen to all the base instead of one side of the game.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    1. Yes, I totally agree. That needs to be changed ASAP. I have no idea how anyone thought it would be a good idea.
    2. Agreed. Maps are the problem, and too many weaker killers.
    3. Yeah. That's most games at top MMRs sadly. The meta becomes set in stone and whatever is most powerful is all that you'll see. It's also where small imbalances become big imbalances...and DbD's imbalances aren't 'small' at all.
    4. MMR takes a while to fall, and the nature of this game is very snowbally. I made a thread about 'The Rule of 3' yesterday - but essentially, if one survivor is dead by the time 3 gens are done, you'll probably get a 3-4k. If all are alive, it's probably a 0-1k. This game doesn't lend itself to 'close' matches a lot.
    5. From this, you'll have strings of losses and wins that can all feel like stomps.
    6. There is also a problem that not enough people are playing at very high/very low MMRs, which can create some silly matches - but not as frequently as ranks did (and it's much, much harder to smurf now).
  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    That's not the point tho the point is they are having issues with the beta and the immediately responded that same day

    Whereas console players are still plagued with issues years later and it took then weeks to address the security issues and ddos problems in dbd and even when they did the response was a joke lol

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    I agree with everything you said and I feel me and you have similar opinions it's nice to see another reasonable human being on these forums that thinks logically and respects others opinions even if we disagree and you seem to play killer and survivor a good amount both since you seem pretty knowledgeable about the game I just wish we could get more people to look at issues from both sides

    Cause killer has some big issues and survivor does as well.i think we all can agree on that

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
    edited November 2021
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    If you Google 'Dead by Daylight Steam Player Counts' you'll find graphs and tables over time. I don't have them on hand right now, but last year was an average of around 35k, now it's hovering around 50k. The game had a massive surge over summer, had a bit of a decline in August and is now fairly stable.

    Very curious to see how numbers look in 6 months, after people have had a chance to adjust to MMR. Those will be the numbers to look at.

    Edit - to your edit :D.

    Usually there's a big drop-off sometime in the Autumn (it happened in 2020 too if I recall). This could be anything - a new game came out, back to school, people burned out after the big BP event etc. If it was MMR, then October and November would have had a massive decline too, to my mind - but the loss was small and not atypical to the standard small gains and losses you see constantly.

    Again, 6 months from now will be what to look at. We'll have a small surge due to the event and the patch next week and probably another influx over Christmas. Then it'll get interesting.

    Thing is - I absolutely sympathize with high MMR players that were used to being able to do '50 game winning streaks with a meme killer' style videos and stuff. That must have been fun.

    But if you look at it from another angle, it would have been miserable for the players they were stomping.

    Now...that isn't really possible anymore, because due to MMR (when it works properly) both sides have around that level of skill and it'll be a sweatfest.

    There has to be a way to keep the high MMR people happy without just unleashing them on everyone else again. And I think that's going to come from rebalancing maps, killers, perks and addons and probably a look at exactly what makes DbD such a snowbally game.

    That'sgoing to take a long time.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
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    I wasen't around during the beta of dbd so i can't say how it was then.

    But fixing issues on a closed beta with a handfull of players is a hell of a lot easier then fixing issues on a multiplatform game and especially with security issues.

    I'm pretty excited about vhs too but it seems a lot of people here aren't actually excitted about the game itself but are excitted with the idea that it might mean dbd's downfall.

    Which is just kinda sad

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    Im really not trying to be rude but did you miss the part where I mentioned the console issues that have existed for years?

    Also that's the thing they haven't fixed the issue but at least they were quick to acknowledge it and comment on it

    Communication is key and they are doing great whereas we all know bhvr has been less then honest sometimes

    I agree I hate people trying to use one game to ######### on another believe it or not but people can play and enjoy both personally I hope both games continue to thrive

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    Generally, when an issue exists for years - it's because that issue is either impossible to fix, or too difficult to be feasible. I don't think that the devs lack compassion for console players - it's more that DbD was a little quasi-indie game that nobody expected to take off like it did. The devs have been holding the whole thing together with spit and tape.

    DbD honestly should be moved to a new engine or something at this point.

    I'm not sure if BHVR have 'lied' - there have been situations where miscommunications have occurred or where something changed design wise after something was said (and the occasional absolutely bafflingly balance change). Can you give me an example?

    The DDOS thing...companies generally don't comment on stuff until they have investigated thoroughly. I'm not sure what happened there and I don't think we'll ever find out.

    I think that competition is good and I really hope that VHS is successful. There is enough space in the world for two great APVP horror games.

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    Oh I agree it's probably a hard issue to fix that's why it hasnt been fixed but at that point why don't they just work on rewriting the spaghetti code? I think league of legends did that in season 3 rewrote the whole game take forever but worked out great

    Oh I wouldn't go as far as to say they lied just bit less then upfront and open such as the nft situation, the removal of pinheads voice lines, the lack of explanation for the lose of the st license, and the absolute mess that was the twins chapter release and the lack of comment of the horrible state of the game at that time again I wouldnt calling it a lie I just personally think you should always keep it 100 with people at all times, and I don't think they've done that imo

    I agree on the ddos thing but I mean the fog whisper otz had reported the ddos thing to them and proved it weeks before they released a comment at that point why have content creators be a part of the development of the game if you don't trust their reports and findings?

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
    edited November 2021
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    • If I recall, LoL moved to a substantially improved engine. I would love a new DbD engine, but the licensed characters...complicate this. Reworking their models would involve a lot of red tape.
    • NFTs...I still don't know what happened there and I don't think anyone else does. It's all gossip and rumor.
    • The Pinhead lines were almost certainly a legal issue, as they obtained the rights to the character, but not the actor or his likeness/voice. This is why licensed materials can be a bad idea. It gets very complicated. It's why Starlord, Drax and Gamora could be in the new Guardian's game, but they look totally different to their movie counterparts. You've got the rights to the characters, but not the actors.
    • Yes, I totally agree that some chapters were a disaster, and they need to get better about squashing bugs with killers etc.
    • I'm sure they did. I don't think that a company would just let something like that stand - because if someone died due to a swatting, they could be in serious hot water from a legal standpoint. They were probably investigating behind the scenes for a while.
    • There is also a problem with online communities, often described as the 'signal/noise' issue. Essentially, there are so many stories being told and so much information being given without any way to prove whether it's true or not that actual issues get drowned out. Too much 'noise' makes it hard to find the 'signal'.
  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
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    Oh did they use a new engine perhaps I'm wrong I would love to see it for dbd tho

    Yea I agree on nfts I just wish we knew all the details

    I think it was legal issues as well but why not just come out and admit it what does it change they aren't getting added back regardless

    My favorite part of dbd is how every chapter release comes with tons of new bugs lol

    I agree on the noise issue it's just they picked these people out so when you hand pick someone to work side by side with you should trust them, especially when I'm sure otz and other streamers sent them that vid of that person getting swatted cause again that happened weeks before a statement

  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885
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    Actually the long Que times for Survivors are because less Killers are playing the game, they either left or switched over to play the less Stressful Survivor Role.

    I can assure you Killers don't have any protection because I was on vacation all last week and played nonstop. I never once "settled". The lack of Killers have forced Killers in lower MMR brackets to be pared against Survivors of higher MMR Brackets. I had one time 25 straight no kills all escaped and still got faced against SWF teams. When I did get "lowered" It was the normal stomp fest on survivors and then back to nonstop nightmare matches.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    Now with MMR it punish you for being creative with builds and I'm basically forced to play with the same meta builds and force to use max MMR killers. It's honestly boring after awhile.

    I don't get it. What do you get for being High MMR gamer? There is no reward, so why you consider not being high MMR as punishment? You don't get less BP on your own skill niche. You don't get more BP or Shards or Cosmetics for High MMR. You don't even know what you MMR number is. Why everyone aiming at High MMR and then shitting about how much they hate it?

    You are not forced to play sweaty. You can play with any build you want and win. Not every game you win but why would you expect 100% winrate? You didn't win every game before MMR, so why should it change suddenly?

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
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    All I'm saying is the devs of vhs can't have issues that have lasted years cause they haven't been around for years.

    I just find that you are jumping a bit to fast on the vhs devs = good and dbd devs = bad when the vhs devs never even had a chance to mess up at all.

    Pretty hard to have console issues for years when your game is a day in beta and isn't on console. DbD didn't have any console issues either when it was in beta

  • jarjargist21
    jarjargist21 Member Posts: 444
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    Well funny thing is you don't lose MMR it keeps going. And every game is a literal sweat fest as survivors run the same build over and over and over, if there was a casual mode then things would be different.

    Let's say you just got a killer and you decided to play instead of low MMR you get high MMR if you're an old player. You're force to play sweaty with meta builds with high MMR and you'll would want to play with killers you're good with.

    As I see it, it punishes creativity towards builds and create a sweatier environment for all. You see MMR increase for kills and survive. Also my friend went up against the same killer 4 times in a roll. So yeah MMR sucks

  • jarjargist21
    jarjargist21 Member Posts: 444
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    Well I think in casual mode perks and add-on will be turned off.

  • jarjargist21
    jarjargist21 Member Posts: 444
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    So you're telling me that the MMR is perfect? Well it's not. If it was then I wouldn't make this post, I have been playing for 5 years almost

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    I'm sure you do lose MMR when more than 2 survivors escape. So if you play non-sweat builds you lose enough games where your game style match the skill of survivors. They still might have 4 second chance perks each, but you will be able to handle it.

    I advice you to play as you like without thinking about your invisible number. Accept loses and enjoy wins same as before MMR was implemented.

  • Gwinty
    Gwinty Member Posts: 981
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    Have you ever considered running your Killers down on MMR?

    I mean, just take "bad perks" like and play for a while focusing only on the mechanics of your Killer. Maybe something like Shadowborn, Lightborn, BBQ and Leathal Pursuer just to get from chase to chase quicker. While grinding down your MMR and getting better at the mechanics you can then play fun builds again.

    I did this and now I am very happy with MMR. It keeps sweaty people away and lets me enjoy myself against surivors who did the same. Nothing more fun than getting beaten by a "Mettle of Men".


    The problem with this is that it only works once you stop caring and just start enjoying the Shadowborn-Meme-Builds. This is not for the avarage player and will ruin most peoples fun sooner or later if they have a competitive spirit. The devs should ask what is fun for a Killer beside winning?

    I had the idea that you could add special "side-quests" during the trial. Selected by throwing in an offering. Once you finish that side-quest which is different for each Killer you get to Mori a survivor. For me Moris just like fatalities in Mortal Combat are very rewarding. However you should have to work for your reward.

    Focusing on "fun" over "balance" would be the way to go either way because people will play a "fun" game when it is unbalanced but they will hate a "balanced" game when it is unfun.

  • GrayEyes
    GrayEyes Member Posts: 379
    edited November 2021
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    Again not trying to be rude but you missed the point again

    Idc whether they fix issues fast or not and I never said vhs=good and bhvr=bad

    I said and I quote communication is key to having a great game and so far they've done great with that

    Even though bhvr hasn't fixed console bugs I don't care that they havent I care that all we've ever heard for years is we are working on it and I'm sorry but if I'm not optimistic when we hear the same thing for years especially considering it took them 2 years to come up with kills and escape based matchmaking

    So far the devs of VHS messed up big time over half of their closed beta participants couldn't get in and the acknowledged it and said yea we are sorry

    Whereas with bhvr every new chapter comes with game breaking bugs and not single word is ever said

    I care about effort and communication not whether the final goals are reached just something to reassure people you are listening

    Which is something we've rarely heard from bhvr which Is a fact nobody can deny