That the SBMM is based on kills and escapes is very good

If you got 0 kills, you're not a good Killer.

The old system could at least reward you for having a "good game" (according to what it considered good, which still wasn't great) even if you died.

The current system places no distinction between having a terrible game and dying at 3 gens, or having a good game and dying in endgame because your teammates didn't save you and/or you could have escaped but you died to ensure someone else could get out.

Similarly, it rewards a killer who gets 3 hooks all on one player (eg. tunneling one survivor and then never getting another hook) the same as it rewards a killer who only got 1 kill but got 8 or 9 hooks and actually played a pretty decent game.

I get that it's probably impossible to create a "perfect MMR system" for this game when you consider how many factors would have to go into it, but it shouldn't have taken this long to implement an MMR system that is this low-effort, if you can even call it an MMR system.

An excellent point, and one everyone needs to remember. We can criticise the MMR system's flaws while understanding that it's not a progression system and you're not "supposed" to be climbing the ranks, necessarily.

Yeah, we still have the old emblem system. And that's fine.

All I'm saying is that it is not an accurate measurement of skill, whether you're meant to ignore it or not.

Yeah right, if I 2 hook all 4 good survivors (8 hooks total) and everyone escapes on death hook while I'm playing a low tier killer without camping, tunneling, slugging and without a slowdown build then I'm a bad killer.

And if I facecamp, tunnel, slug and 1-hook 4 bad survivors while playing top tier killers with a full slowdown build then I'm a good killer.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Learn how to read.

8 hooks is more than 4 hooks. Is it that hard to understand?

I think the Killer exists to kill Survivors. So a good killer can and should kill Survivors. No matter how.

a couple of things i will have to disagree with you on here:

we already had a system that managed to track skill significantly better than the current MMR system did, that being the Emblem system. All they had to do was to remove Ranks as the determining matchmaking factor and replace those with an MMR system. and during the lifetime of said system i dont remember ever seeing anyone "farming" the emblem scores - obviously you would want to get good scores in them, but that never lead to farming games (at most someone hookfarming someone else, which they did try to fight with a penalty to the emblem - and had said penalty applied to BT saves as well i do think it would no longer have been an issue)

also, yes developing / changing things takes time. but that shouldnt be an argument against improving a currently problematic thing, otherwise this game would literally never change. That'd be like saying "yeah old Moris were OP, but ya know, changing those would take time, so lets just keep them the way they are" - i'd much rather they took some more time and released well functioning and thought out things than them rushing half developed things out because they had to meet a deadline.

actually, i dont think they ever did - or intend to.

the way we figured that out was by dataminers discovering the information in the games code and then sharing it with the community - so when BHVR came around to tell us how it worked, that was only because we had already discovered it.

also, it is possible to determine your exact MMR rating with this method - though i dont know how Easy Anti Cheat or BHVR like you doing this sort of thing, so i wouldnt recommend it.

Basing the system on kills just encourages killers to facecamp/tunnel as if someone was holding a gun to their head IRL and will shoot them if they don't get at least a 2K.

so you are agreeing with my statement that the Emblem system is doing a better job at determining someones skill than the MMR system currently does?

yes, that is indeed what it was designed to do. And based on the findings of the Emblem system the Ranking system would reward you with points - or make you lose some. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, after all even the MMR system only takes the trial you were just playing into account when determining whether you win or lose MMR points.

i think you completely misunderstood what i was saying there.

there is a very big difference between the Emblem system and the Rank system. The Emblem system was tracking your performance throughout the trial and then essentially give a status report to the Rank system (which is its own unique thing), which would then based on that report give / take away pips from your Rank, which would then be used to determine who you'd go up against next.

The Devs removed not just the Rank system as you claimed, they also removed the Emblem system from the overall matchmaking.

what i dont like about this is not the overall MMR system and its way of determining your opponent (well, i do dislike it, but thats not relevant for this discussion, as that would be an entirely different argument and topic), but the way the MMR system attempts to determine your skill - because it only cares for whether you escaped or not, which is a very simple, one dimensional and inaccurate view on someones actual skill level.

The way i want this to work is, to have the Emblem system determine your overall score and whether you won or lost and the MMR system then acting accordingly - by awarding you a certain amount of points / taking a certain amount of points away from your overall MMR rating, that would then be used to determine your next opponent.

please explain this to me:

1) why would anyone want to farm for a higher MMR score? all that does is make your matches significantly sweatier and significantly less fun and you cant even see your MMR rating under normal circumstances, so unlike the old Ranks you wont even receive bragging rights. There is absolutely no benefit to reaching high MMR - mind you, Grades that give you BP rewards at the end of the month are entirely unrelated to the MMR system.

The way i see it, MMR gives you even less of an incentive to start farming to reach a high rating than the old Ranking system did - and people already didnt do that when that was a thing.

2) how exactly are you picturing people to "just farm the Emblems"? you are awarded Emblems based on your performance ingame - the better you play, the more Emblems you receive. In addition to that, the Killer Emblems and the Survivor Emblems usually stand in a direct contradiction to one another, meaning for one side to receive good Emblem scores, the other side would receive bad ones. In other words, its in the Killers interest NOT to let Survivors get good Emblems and vice versa.

i think this just throws a different question in the room: what is your definition of "normal" gameplay?

what, on the Survivor side, do you consider to be "normal gameplay", that isnt a mixture of: repairing generators (Lightbringer Emblem), helping your team (e.g. protection hits, healing or unhooking) (Benevolent Emblem), running away from the Killer (Evader Emblem) or trying to escape the trial alive (Unbroken Emblem)?

same for the Killer side: what do you consider to be "normal gameplay" that isnt defending generators (Gatekeeper Emblem), sacrificing Survivors (Devout Emblem), hooking and injuring Survivors (Malicious Emblem) and chasing Survivors (Chaser Emblem)?

so you're saying not camping someone on hook until they die and instead going after someone else is a bad or even abnormal thing? Also, Hooks and Sacrifices are counted in two different Emblems - the Devout Emblem counting the amount of sacrificed Survivors and the Malicious Emblem counting the amount of hooking actions throughout the trial. So there is a clear incentive for the Killer to try and sacrifice as many Survivors as they can - in fact, a single sacrifice, in terms of Emblem score, is worth more than a single (or even a couple of) hooks.

i dont even understand where you're comming from with this. there is no Emblem that rewards you for not running away from the Killer - in fact, the Evader Emblem rewards you for the exact opposite, that being a long chase.

wrong. repairing generators and helping your team are two entirely seperate Emblems for you to score in, so all not running away from the Killer does here is to ensure you wont be getting any significant points in one Emblem, while only being able to progress the other Emblems as much as if you just did run - or even less, as there is not even a chance for the Killer to drop the chase with you, allowing you to further work on those two Emblems.

i very much doubt people would mix up their gameplay in any significant way if they made the Emblem system the determining factor to whether you won or lost a game in DbD again. the only people this would screw over are those that instantly facecamp someone on hook with 3 passive game delay perks and then insta downing someone else with NOED and repeating the same thing - to which i say: good. screw these people and get them out of my games.

of course some minor tweaks would need to be made in order for those two systems to coexist, but those would be things the Emblem system should have had even before MMR was a thing - for example making it impossible for the MMR system to count a game as a loss if the Survivor escaped / the Killer reached a certain kill threshold - so essentially the exact same thing the MMR system currently does, but significantly less extreme by not awarding an auto win / loss for achieving them / not achieving them & instead taking some more things you did throughout the trial into account to determine whether you won or not.

all a merge of those two systems would realistically do is, that it would help those players that played well but died right in the end / had a majority of people escape (but achieving a lot of hooks) not count the game as a loss, while making sure that those who played bad and still got out / 2 or more kills (but barely hooked anyone) would not have it counted as a win to them either.

I feel that, but it's also pretty ineffective to blame the MMR system for that. People act under false delusions all the time, the solution is to correct them, not to make their delusions more reflected in reality.

They didn't implement MMR in the first time because they said it was based on kills /deaths and that wasn't a good way to measure skill level. Now they implemented it based on kill/deaths because potato.

Yes, it was.