http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why? (Mmr)
Why does MMR get determined off of kills /escapes while we have an actual semi decently functioning emblem system?
Why is it that if you die, you auto lose MMR, instead of "oh you died BUT with 4 iri emblems? Mmmmm MMR+ " or "oh you escaped but with 1 iri, 1 silver, and 2 bronze? Yeeeeahhh.. that's an MMR- do better / more next time."
Using the emblems would actually take into account what you did or didn't do throughout the match. Ya know.. a thing most people who have made suggested fixes to MMR, have said?
I understand the old emblems and rank system were jank af. That's fine. It's in the past. What we have for emblems now though actually feel fairly accurate.
Not only would it take your various activities in the match into account, but it would also (due to that) lessen a few of the various things people do that generally cause frustrations for the opposite or even same team. IE you lose points for camping a hooked player. Or on the surv side, lose points for unsafely unhooking or hook bombing.
Obviously there would still be people playing in some less savory ways but it would lessen, and at higher MMRs would be near non existent because if that's how you play at high ranks, you won't be staying at high ranks for long. Things like camping and tunneling, hook bombing or trying to force DS (and subsequently being tunnelled out of the game).
I just don't really understand why effort went into fixing the emblem system if its original use was simply going to be scrapped and replaced with a (generally accepted as and called a) mediocre change.
Comments
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Because people didn't like that system, it wasn't good enough. Well now look at the bed we all have to sleep in.
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The problem with the 'ranks' system was that:
- It was way too easy to derank and smurf. It was so bad that even some Fog Whisperers admitted to deranking for easier games on stream. Emblems would have the same problem.
- Killers had no matchmaking protections, so high MMR people would constantly get matched against people with much less experience/skill, resulting in those amazing '100 win streak with a meme build' videos.
MMR has it's problems, particularly in terms of people with high MMR now constantly having harder games than they are used to, plus the occasional 'wut' matchup - but it's been significantly better now, at least for me as a comfortably intermediate killer player that prefers to try weird perk and addon combinations.
At least 3/5 games are...pretty decent. Maybe 1/5 is a touch too easy and 1/5 is a brutal slog, but before MMR, around 2/3 of my games were me getting absolutely stomped by people with thousands more hours of experience, generally smurfing.
I do agree that MMR for survivors should be more nuanced than died/escaped, but there's plenty of room for refinement.
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With the exception that I really, sincerely don't think you should gain MMR even after dying, I actually fully agree that the current system would be in a more than acceptable spot if it used the emblems as a softening/enhancing factor. Dying after getting a very good emblem score should result in you losing less MMR, because it's showing the system that you do know what you're doing and probably shouldn't be tossed down to go bully some newbies.
This would be less necessary for killers, since the system already works pretty well for killer (provided the player isn't actively trying to max out their MMR and ruining their own experience as a result), but it'd hardly hurt for that side.
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but he was talking about the Emblem system, not the Rank system?
those are indeed two very different things - one determines how well you played (Emblem), the other one determines who you get to play against next (Ranks).
they want to merge the Emblem system with the MMR system to more accurately determine an individuals skill, not bring back the old Rank based matchmaking.
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I'm...a little confused.
What would be the difference?
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the Emblem system judges your ingame performance and gives you a score based on that - this score is later used by the Ranking system to determine whether you get to rank up, lose your rank or stay where you are. The Rank is then the determining factor for your Opponents in your next match.
in short: the Emblem system judges your ingame perfromance, the Rank system is used for matchmaking purposes. They used to work together hand in hand, but they arent the same system.
if we want to remove Ranks, that does not necessarily mean the Emblems had to go as well, its just the matchmaking determining factor that has to be replaced.
Sadly, the Devs didnt do that and instead removed both at the same time, which lead to them giving MMR a much worse system to determine your performance - essentially the thing determining whether you win / lost right now is the Unbroken / Devout Emblem alone (even a worse version of those, as some of the extra requirements these two used to have arent being taken into account at all (times you went down / hooks achieved)), as the system only cares for whether you escaped / how many you killed.
so its not a very accurate system and its completely inferior to the previously already existing Emblem system, due to it ignoring away everything you did during the trial.
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Nope, still not totally grasping what you are asking for.
So...you want the emblem system to be tied to the MMR system - like, the emblems you earn increase your MMR somehow?
This might be decent for survivors, but for killers...eh. Honestly, even on matches I lose handily I'll get 2-3 golds, sometimes iris. I think that would massively inflate killer MMRs.
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It was a bad system compared to other games' matchmaking. Mostly because it basically came down to your monthly playtime and that you'd be placed with people not your rank. If they brought back the emblem system and worked out a few kinks that was either abusable or unfairly punished certain killers then became more strict on what ranks you can match with then it'd be an improvement over the current system. Honestly, in many's opinions, SBMM is already a downgrade and many quit over it, myself included.
Well, I didn't quit solely because of SBMM but it was that straw the broke the camel's back.
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yes i want the Emblem system to be the determining factor whether you win or lose.
because just going off of Kills / Escapes is a horrible decision and is extremely inaccurate when it comes to actually determining who is good and who is bad at the game.
just because someone died does not mean they'd be bad at the game (or worse than the people that got out for that matter) - yet MMR says so.
just because the Killer killed two people does not mean they'd be good at the game / they'd be bad at it (e.g. instant facecamp + NOED kill) - yet MMR says so.
Emblems would allow such scenarios to not matter as much as they currently do - if you were the absolute MVP this game but died right at the end, then you're still going to get MMR points (or at least not lose any), while that one claudette that hid in a corner all game and got out is not going to be treated as superior (or even equal) to you.
it would overall just be a significant improvement over the current system, thats for sure.
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I'm fine with killer MMR going off kills. Honestly, MMR works best the simpler it is and I think emblems would just cause a problem here. Killer emblems are...weird. I know that I wouldn't want my MMR going up after getting stomped just because I chased a lot.
Survivor - yes. That system needs to be a lot more nuanced. Maybe emblems would be a good way to go about this? Make MMR gains/losses some product of emblems+escape?
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Exactly. It's not like MMR doesn't work, it's how the rules applied aren't that good to determine your "skill".
Today I had another horrible day playing this game solo survivor. Like I escaped 3/20 times or so. And I always died with the most amount of points between my team.
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MMR is just as easily gamed as emblems. Maybe even easier. I've seen survivors destroy a killer, open the gate, refuse to leave, get sacrificed by EGC, and derank. Lots of BP and derank. I've seen killers do the same. Own survivors, get chili stacks, break pallets, kick gens, afk for the 4 escape and derank.
I've been playing tgis game since shortly after release, tgis is the worst matchmaking yet. Very bad for the game.
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Yes - you can smurf your MMR down. It takes significantly longer than deranking would under the old system.
I ran into smurfing SWFs a month ago. I think I've seen 1 in the past week now. I think people are starting to realize that it's just not worth the effort.
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It does not take as long as you think. I've seen people achieve it in just a couple of days.
Tgis MMR system is worse at rating skill than the Emblem system. It takes nothing you do in a match into consideration. It only measures kills and escapes.
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A couple of days is a lot more of a commitment than an hour or two.
The Emblem system might be okay for survivors, but I'm...okay with kills determining MMR as a killer.
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I can agree with that completely. As killer I do have to agree the emblems can be kinda wonky. Especially considering a very fast 4k can lead to low emblems. So maybe the best change would honestly be killer mmr being based on kills, and survivors mmr being based off emblems
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It's not like all the emblems need to have a 1:1 weighting.
As I said in a thread another day: they're already tracking everything that could make for a more comprehensive MMR system (and one that casts a much finer net than all accounts of the current MMR suggest). Just having a notion that "if all these symbols are gold/red, I did well and will probably have higher MMR going forward" is something.
And not the absolutely binary selfish survivor win/loss condition, or the killer's "Is this a win or what?" due to vagueness around how many kills count for MMR and if it's treated as a 1v4 or 4 1v1's
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I'm okay with this. I think survivor MMR could be a product of both emblems and escape status. It would have to be done very carefully to avoid survivors inadvertently inflating their MMR.
Personally, if it was up to me - I'd also make 'killed' survivor MMR gains/losses change depending on how many generators were completed before their death.
But yeah, it's really complicated.
I'm sure they will continue to refine the system as they go. I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been tweaked a lot - I know that my matches are quite a bit more even than they were a month ago.
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Except that people with high mmr literally can never go for any altruistic play if they want to keep facing decent killers while having decent teammates.
The MMR is good for new players or for super competitive players, but for 80% of the players, its worse.
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