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NOED Is Overrated
From all the complaints I've seen from Survivors saying NOED is a crutch perk, it's so op, etc. Sure it helps out killer players that aren't doing well in some games but, maybe that's because oh I don't know the killer should have the advantage if they're getting destroyed and NOED helps with that and even then it's still not op like most players say.
Survivors have many perks that can help them find totems, Boons, Small Game, Detectives Hunch, and Counterforce yet for some reason from all of my games playing Killer and Survivor they don't get brought a lot not to mention you guys have maps and can put some addons on to help find them you have so many ways to find them.
So why don't you guys use these perks and items? You have them but just wanna be upset about one perk that can easily be beaten. I'm sure you can sacrifice your Unbreakable, BT, DS or whatever you carry the most to help find totems.
Comments
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The thing is that, in my experience, NOED doesn't actually help if the killer is playing badly. It can help if they're having a bad game but aren't a bad player, certainly, but even in that case it's hard to claw back from a defeat with just NOED when you've only got one guy on death hook and he's the one you downed so you don't even have any pressure to keep the others in the match. Just as an example.
The real reason that NOED gives "unearned" kills is because survivors seem, based on forum posts here, to refuse to employ very basic counterplay like keeping track of where dull totems are or just leaving the trial ASAP to avoid giving the perk any value.
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It is hard to claw back with NOED I can agree with that in some scenarios it won't be much useful if the survivors know how to loop and what not
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IMO noed is the strongest hex perk and has super synergy with no way out, as seen in most comp games. Obviously that opinions shift for different killers, mainly s tier killers. That being said, if you have 4 survivors alive when noed procks, you might secure a 2k most of the time, likely will still be a 1k.
Obviously none of this is fact just a guess as to how it would end. Sometimes 4k sometimes 0k.
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90 percent of the time survivors just need to search for the totem. They don't. But the killer camps and you just go find it. No big deal really.
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I'm literally doing a two-part experiment right now.
Survivor teams simply do not have time to cleanse all 5 totems and they shouldn't if MMR does its job.
I think I've recorded over 50 games so far.
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These 3 posts tell a story
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My problem with NOED is how it conditions the gameplay of those who use it. What do I mean by this?
I often find that a lot of killers who bring NOED will try to camp/tunnel the first person they can out of the game to give them the 3 v 1 advantage. A lot of them don't even try to defend gens
Why is that? Because they know they don't have to care about the gens too much because they have NOED and good players typically realise when a killer is camping - they need to just sit on gens since there's nothing else they can do apart from trade. Against most killers, this is managable (due to BT in most cases) but certain killers make hook diving suicidal - Bubba, Trickster, Hag etc
A lot of the time Survivors are in a lose lose when it comes to this playstyle.
Do bones while their teammate is being tunnelled/camped to death and probably lose because gens aren't being done + it'll be a 3 v 1 soon
Or do what you're supposed to do when a killer commits to a camp & get hit with NOED. Probably end up slugged or get like 1/2 people out if the killer decides to camp the first person they down with it.
Then again, MMR rewards selfishness - if NOED procs and the gates are prepared typically people just leave, which is smart bc altruism is risky. Fun to try though.
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Noed is fine. Expect it when you bring boons. Just keep an eye on where totems are. Last gen pops play it smart. Crush bones, or bail .
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OP? No
Unhealthy for the game? Yes
Overrated? No.
NOED on average will single handedly net you significantly more kills than you would have got other wise. Not because you did anything skillful, but simply because the survivors were lazy.
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I’m a bit skeptical NOED significantly improves kill rates more than other good perks. It can get one or maybe two downs at the end of the match that you might not get without it, but for instance Haunted Grounds gets you one or two downs early in the match and early downs can snowball into a 3v1 before the gens are completed which significantly increases the chances of a 3-4k. And running NOED means you have an unused perk slot for the first 80% of the match or so.
If NOED actually statistically overperformed in terms of kill rates it probably would have been nerfed a long time ago given how long it’s been around and how many people complain about it.
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lol it kinda does
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noed is definitely a over complained about perk. survivors have so much time to cleanse or prevent it. i soloq and have no issues with noed. i even purposefully run the killer with it.
i really do think survs don't even try and play against it when they complain. as for killers who complain, idk why.
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NOED makes me happy...It's the only time in the game when the survivor's are actually scared of the killer. The T bagging and clickity clicks stop real quick.
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bloodwarden actually punishes the teabagging.
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Combo them make it more terrifying
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Haunted Grounds is actually quite a bad perk. Only 60 seconds of 1 hit downs that you do not control when it happens or even if it happens at all. Extremely overrated perk.
Especially now that we're in a boon meta noed is almost always guaranteed to activate. At any given time, especially near end game, you will generally always have someone on a hook or about to be on a hook. Those couple downs from NOED turns that 1 hook at end game into 2 quite easily and that's at bare minimum depending on the map rng of totem spawns. You can quite easily turn a 1k into a 4k solely from noed alone.
Also while I do think comp games are a joke in a game that's this unbalanced, they are very good players. Go watch their matches and you'll see the killers always running NOED. If you had any doubt about it being a good perk, that should alleviate it. There's a reason they do.
"If NOED actually statistically overperformed in terms of kill rates it probably would have been nerfed a long time ago given how long it’s been around and how many people complain about it."
Actually no, they wouldn't.
It's kept in that state because it artificially increases the kill rate statistics to higher levels as a scapegoat to justify the balance changes they make towards keeping the game skewed towards the very average casual survivor. IE we point out how unbalanced the game is and they go, "no look at the data killers are actually much better than you think". Now they do not overtly tell you what conclusions to draw from said data as I was slightly hyperbolic there. They tell you not to draw conclusions from it because they themselves know how flawed that data is from multiple things, noed being one of them.
Many killers kills come from entirely NOED as well at lower tiers and removing that would make many of them quit the game.
Like I said earlier, I am not saying noed is op whatsoever, it's not. I'm just saying it is good if you care about winning and is unhealthy design for the game.
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Survivors have all the time in the world to find Totems. There isn't a time limit to survivors doing gens. Killers are at a time crunch, at the start of the match killers have to find survivors and they to apply pressure to keep the game in their favor.
As others said there are items and perks that allow anyone to find them. In my soloQ matches I can easily find 3 or 4 before last gen is done. Before other survivors complain about NOED they need to do things other than Gens. If one single survivor can find that many totems a 4 man team can find them all.
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As a killer main I hate NOED. I fully believe this single perk gives devs the wrong impression about how balanced the game truly is.
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I assume your experiment is also taking into account what the impact of NOED is after it procs, in a more nuanced way than just counting the kills?
I ask because I've been slapping NOED onto my builds as killer recently to see how much value I get out of it, and very consistently I only get one down with it. There was even a very interesting outlier game where a four-man escape turned into a 4k after NOED activated, but NOED had nothing to do with it- they all just stepped in bear traps after the last generator was completed. A game like that would throw off the stats if you only look at kills.
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Well, as killer you keep track of the gens locations and gates. Sure you 4k every game. Sounds easy
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I'll admit I wasn't particularly clear, but I feel like this is engaging in bad faith. But, to take it at face value: What I mean is that if you find that you're facing NOED quite a lot, you can make a habit of making a mental note any time you pass a dull totem in the trial. That way, if you choose to stay in the trial, you can minimise the risk by running straight to where you remember dulls being to check if they're lit.
But it is a risk. It's like running towards the killer when someone else procs Haunted Grounds, you can still pull it off but you're choosing to take a risk; staying in the trial when NOED is announced is a risk, one you're choosing to take.
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Hot take: Any form of competitive dbd is just a normal game with money as a reward. Dbd is not fit for competitive.
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I mean i definitely enjoy the comp scene, as others do. The reason comp works is because each team plays both sides with limited perks ect. That's why we see perks with less rng like corrupt, pop, noed, no way out.
I can see why some people don't like it but there is for sure alot of fun to be had in being competitive.
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Survivor control the lenght of the match if they do 2 gen first minute the game have the potentiel to end in 3 minute. Survivor are in control of the chase unless its a nurse.
The only thing the killer control is if he kill someone when he is on hook but even then only a small portion of killer control that.
So saying survivor dont have time to chase bones i believe is false. If survivor want they can finish all gen in 20 minute whitout interacting with the killer. Its the killer that is on a time limit and that time limit change every match depending on the survivor.
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That scapegoat theory sounds like bunk honestly. The devs nerf killer perks they perceive to be overpowered all the time, they don’t leave them in the game to somehow artificially inflate kill rates.
Moreover I’ve never seen actual data indicating NOED inflates kill rates overall compared to other good perks, just a lot of speculation about how good or bad it is. Has anybody actually tracked results of randomly sampled games on kill rates in games with NOED versus games without it? If so it’s be an interesting read.
On a tangent I’ve had good results with Haunted Ground but that’s just me. It rarely doesn’t go off early in the match because survivors are hyper aware of removing hexes nowadays. And since it goes off early in the match it normally happens within a time frame I am already chasing a healthy survivor. So while I don’t know how good or bad it is overall I doubt it’s as bad as you seem to think. 🤷♂️
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"That scapegoat theory sounds like bunk honestly. The devs nerf killer perks they perceive to be overpowered all the time, they don’t leave them in the game to somehow artificially inflate kill rates."
You'll notice most those perks that were nerfed are perks that required some semblance of skill to use. NOED helps low tier players especially without a skill requirement which is where most their balancing is focused towards.
"Moreover I’ve never seen actual data indicating NOED inflates kill rates overall compared to other good perks"
We've never seen this data period, much less NOED specifically, so that's kinda irrelevant.
"Has anybody actually tracked results of randomly sampled games on kill rates in games with NOED versus games without it? If so it’s be an interesting read."
We have no data on things like this for any perks. That's why I'd like to see a NOED free weekend to see the data change as well.
We can call this speculation all you want but that's basically all we have. I also value my speculation quite high as I'm using a rather large sample size with my hours in game nearing 8k.
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You'd need more than just kill rates- I've been slapping NOED onto my killer builds recently to try and figure out exactly how good it is myself, and I've noticed that even when it procs and I get kills in the endgame, it's not usually because of NOED. Survivors could be injured and thus the instadown does nothing, or I down them with a power (especially bear traps from Trapper), etc etc.
The speed might help, though, hard to gauge that.
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Someone here once pointed out a good point. If you can do bones, do them. If your excuse is "I don't have time" then that means the killer is putting enough pressure on your team that you cannot spare time. Which in that case, means the killer didn't "do nothing" and actually may have legit earned that win since you admit he put sufficient pressure on the team with 3 perks. If the killer has to put sufficient pressure so you don't have time to do the bones, in order to even use the perk, then it's probably fine.
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For the Killer part of the challenge, yes, I am recording what impact it had.
The Survivor part is just seeing how often all 5 totems are cleansed in a match, even with me looking for them and running Small Game. It's not a lot.
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Cool, I'd be interested in seeing that once you're done compiling the numbers!
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3/10 stars, would not recommend.
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It may not be for a while.
I got told that I needed at least 300 games, if not more. I'm shooting for 300 but I think I'm at 55 rn
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Noed is just a reason for bad or new killers to keep playing. It makes them think they're good when they get a 4k at the end after hooking 1 person earlier in the trial so they keep using it and therefore keep playing.
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just delete the perk together with boons, it's trash anyway
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That's an incredibly silly statement.
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Explain to me why its silly? Because everything i said i believe its true. When you are looping the killer when do the killer hit you its because you made a mistake or because its a nurse. Same with the lenght of the match like i said survivor control that too if they want fast match they do gen if they want long match they do bones, chest and gen with some imteraction with the killer.
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I can agree with the aspect of camping a hooked survivor with NoEd. A lot of killers, as the ones mentioned like Trickster, Bubba and Hag, etc..., make it risky to go for a save.
Totem looking has also become a wild goose chase at times since a lot of hiding spots for totems are ones that people wouldn't consider.
NoEd is a rather OP perk since it provides the killer an increase in speed *4% I think at tier 3) and grants the insta-down.
I've never used this perk because I rather work hard and earn my kills that have a perk hand me a win a way. NoEd doesn't always grant a guarantee 4k since many survivors will do the logical thing and leave once they see a survivor is being camped by a NoEd killer or try to hunt down the totem.
I can say that there are a few killers who I believe benefit from this perk; however, I've only seen killers who already have an insta-down equipped with it.
My question is...if you're very good at playing as a killer, why use NoEd anyway?
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I agree there's some placements you wouldn't think of looking at but, if you have counterforce you cleanse a totem than you just follow the trail because 1 gets revealed and than keep going until they're gone
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I've been experimenting with it lately. What I am seeing right now is my matches are so lop sided that it rarely matters. Either I stomp the survivors so hard that it never activates at all, or I get stomped so hard that it doesn't matter at all. I've not had matches where it comes in clutch or gives me a genuine 4k after getting stomped. It tends to either not activate, or if it does activate, I get the surprise down and the survivors are so on point they just break the hex within 60 seconds, unhook the guy, and leave. Which is only furthering my opinion NOED isn't a very good perk. It just sucks to die to for the unlucky guy who gets downed by it and has a team who can't cleanse it. I sure haven't experienced any sudden 4k win's from NOED after a match of getting utterly stomped, though.
And on another topic I feel if sbmm was working right, I wouldn't be getting matches that are so onesided, be they in my favor or not.
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Very well put. Totems though difficult to find can be made easy using rainbow maps, counterforce and small game.
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