Which of these is the biggest problem with hexes?

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Hexes are supposed to be high-risk, high-reward perks, but they rarely last long in games with a particularly competent team--especially with boons having moved hexes more into the open and encouraged people to look for totems even further.

Is it:

1) Hexes are cleansed too fast: without thrill of the hunt, hexes go poof just like that. And because TotH and Undying don't provide totemvision, unless a survivor is bold enough to run to a hex in your face, there's essentially no way to even try and protect them.

2) The effects announce themselves: even when the reward is supposed to be high, the fact survivors immediately know what the effect is and what's causing the effect makes it obvious.

3) Hexes that should not be hexes: something like Huntress Lullaby, and arguably Blood Favour or Crowd Control (which could have some other means of gathering tokens to use--chase time?). Or TotH, which seems like it should take a prize as a perk to protect hexes that is specifically itself a hex and already stakes most of its effect on the number of totems standing.

Or something else?

Comments

  • GentlemanFridge
    GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 5,400
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    About 2, that’s actually the case. When a survivor gets in range of a boon totem, it says what perk(s) you’ve just entered the range of. It comes with a “Blessed” status effect, much like how hexes come with a “Cursed” status effect. In that regard, they are the same, just not in the way you described.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2021
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    I wasn't talking about survivors.

    I was talking about information that killer has.

    He gets sound that tells him, it's a thing, but you don't know if it is only CoH (most of the times) or some full boon squad.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,544
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    RNG

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2021
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    Yeah and wait till you see new map...

    I have seen some of those spawns on PTB, that's going to be worst totem map.


  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,216
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    Great, as if I didn't have plenty of reasons to dislike that map already.

    Good thing I will never play on it. At least not on the nearby future.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    I think 3 is most valid point. Some hexes are too weak and not worth being hex.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
    edited November 2021
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    Maybe totems should just be invisible until you're pretty much standing on them? If killers have to play the audio totem hunt too...

    Obviously some of these spawns are still absurd given that, but it would reduce the need to find weird corners that couldn't possibly hold anything else to squirrel them away in.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2021
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    I would just want every spawn in a way, where you have to walk there and look around a corner. The MacMillan Estate has some of those.

    But then you have those totems on a hill where everyone can see those 40 meters away -> Ormond.

    Lot of guaranteed spawns -> Grim Pantry.

    Totems just alone in open place -> Coldwind Farm, Gas Heaven.


    I don't think it's that hard to create maps from start with possible totem spawns. They know totems will be needed somewhere...

    I would love to show them good hiding spots even on current maps. It's not really that hard to do, but they failed somehow. They are like those little kids hiding behind a curtain even tho their feet are visible.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,140
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    Hex's power is fine. Except Huntress Lullaby is too weak and it should be buffed that starts with 1 token. Mainly totems spawn is a problem.

    But the biggest problem is its counter part Boon that no risk and unlimited reward

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2021
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    I don't think it would be broken if it just started with 5 from start (no warning sound).

    You could make that penalty based on tokens... up to 3

  • ThiccMick
    ThiccMick Member Posts: 17
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    Hex Totems should only be visible (The lit effect) after a dull totem has been cleansed.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2021
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    That's an interesting idea...

    Devour hope would be kinda broken tho with this. Ruin too


    I mean it wouldn't be that bad, survivors might learn to always do bones just to be sure... Nah, they would just get moried and cry on forum.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,140
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    I feel like if it starts with 5 tokens, it would work just like the old Ruin, which survivors find for Hex instead of try to power through Ruin.

    The best version I can think of is it start with 1 token, each hook gain a token (to 4 tokens). Between 1-2-3-4 tokens, the warning delay is mixed between 1-2-3-4 token (its far better than having the same delay for each token). Then silent at 5 token.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2021
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    Problem is that this perk is just useless when survivors do gens fast and survivors know about it from first hook and have ######### tons of time to find it, so it just has too low value.

    Let's be honest, it's not that hard to finish gen even with lullaby. You just have to focus a little... That effect is way weaker than old ruin

  • Kira4Evr
    Kira4Evr Member Posts: 2,025
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    The only problem with Hexes in my opinion is the spawns.

    1. They should never spawn on the same side survivors spawn.
    2. They should be a bit more hidden.
    3. Thrill of the Hunt should not be a hex.


  • WishIcouldmain
    WishIcouldmain Member Posts: 4,081
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    They spawn in too stupid of spots

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,333
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    Stupid totem spawn locations is the main problem, but that's been awknowledged for years and never been fixed, much less even on the new map. It clearly isn't happening.

    Like 80% of the entire list of hex perks aren't good enough to warrant being hexes. They're supposed to be high risk/high reward, instead we get mostly high risk/low-mediocre reward.

    Those are the main issues. Spawn locations, followed be undertuned/weak hexes.

  • EvilJoshy
    EvilJoshy Member Posts: 5,295
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    I think the biggest flaw with hex perks is they only function if the survivors choose to ignore them. With boons now everyone is finding bonez. Making hex perks even less viable. Before boons you could get some value from a hex because gen rushers ignored it.

    The point im trying to make is you shouldn't design something that depends on your opponents negligence to get value out of it.

  • lovemeplz
    lovemeplz Member Posts: 84
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    The issue with hex is before the era of boon we could say hex are high risk high reward. Now we cant say that specially when boon are stronger then hex perk so now killer woke up and realise hex perk were high reward if survivor ignore the perk. For the meta we are in its not worth taking the risk to bring an hex perk its not reliable enough.

  • Michi
    Michi Member Posts: 119
    edited November 2021
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    I think the spawns and the visibility are the problem.


    An easy fix would be to just let 12-15 crates spawn around the map (they only appear at Totem spots) and 5 of them can contain a Totem. They can be destroyed by killers and survivors the same way they could destroy the pumpkins.

    With this addition survs will not find totems immediately while getting chased and totems will survive longer since survs would only open them for boons or if they are sure a strong hex is in play. They wont be able to see totems from miles away anymore.


    Additionally new perks can be created that trigger while interacting with boxes, mindgames are possible where Killers open up a create with their devour to make people think it's haunted ground etc etc.


    With this spawns could stay as they are since even totems on hills would be hidden by crates, it would be minimal effort to inplement this since box skins exist already and the kick/destroy mechanics are also in the game.

  • Tr1nity
    Tr1nity Member Posts: 5,047
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    One time I photoshopped Waldo out of one of those pages and sent it to my friends.

  • GoshJosh
    GoshJosh Member Posts: 4,992
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    After my last match as Blight with Blood Favour since the buff, it should definitely be a hex. Maybe you haven’t tried it since they vastly strengthened it. I’ve never had an easier time on Temple of Purgation, one of the best survivor maps.

    I would like to see most totem spawns fixed, only realize it will also help hide boons from killers as well. Also, only turn them into hex totems once the perk is in play (i.e. Devour Hope gets two tokens, first hit with Third Seal, etc.).

  • Nathan13
    Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,639
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    totem spawns are just really bad.

  • RainehDaze
    RainehDaze Member Posts: 2,573
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    Tbh, with Blood Favour it's just another one of those annoying "Oh that would be a useful effect if it wasn't going to be cleansed immediately" things. I guess I'd rather see more stuff like Spirit Fury which have a distinct charge condition and can't be disabled, rather than more perks that depend on the totems being left alone then you need to activate it by doing something else.

  • Labrac
    Labrac Applicant Posts: 1,285
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    Hexes should have some sort of buff where they don't spawn in the map until 2 minutes have passed (but their effects are active).

  • twitch_ravKenclaw
    twitch_ravKenclaw Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2021
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    Ugh, this makes my head hurt reading all these commonly replied solutions. If the devs / BHVR wanted ANY of these to happen, THEY. WOULD. HAPPEN.

  • BigChapAlien21
    BigChapAlien21 Member Posts: 250
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    Random totem spawn sucks the most of all of them. Nobody wants to see their "powerful" Hex totem cleansed seconds into the game.


    I'll also throw in another issue - you can't tell which is which. Some hexes want to be cleansed i.e Haunted Grounds, Retribution, but if you run these perks with other hex totems like Ruin then it suddenly becomes harder to know which totem you need to actually defend