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The NOED & DS Problem (Rework)
Introduction
Since I have already made a DS thread and many fog travelers liked it, I'll leave the link here so I don't have to retype everything.The Decisive Strike Problem (Rework)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/23199/the-decisive-strike-problem-rework/p1
Explanation
Now, we all have mixed feelings about NOED since it's either a crutch perk or a side effect to rushing the generators. However, I feel like NOED is not balanced for solo Q survivors but it is balanced for SWF. This is the problem.A single survivor can't do anything to this perk without sacrificing a lot of time. However, they can of course use a perk to aid them but then you feel the need to always use a perk and you don't get rewarded since you didn't get a lot of emblem points.
Common Complaints
"Just break the totem"Like I said before, you are a single survivor trying to destroy all 5 totems before your teammates power on the exit gates. Basically, you can destroy a few totems but have NOED activate because your teammates didn't want to help out. Can you see the problem? You're 1v1 the killer when the game is built around a 1v4. Knowing this, destroying 5 totems will be difficult to the single survivor. This is just unfair.
"Don't rush the generators"
The killer failed his objective which is maintaining at least 3 generators and now the killer should be punished for that. You can relate this to DS where the survivor was caught fair and square but gets rewarded instead of being punished. We should have perks that reduce the punishment such as Technician and Boil Over but not straight out counteract the failure.
The NOED Rework
No One Escapes Death: (Version 1)Not a Hex
You are infuriated by the progress your pray makes. Gain a 5%/10%/15% haste effect whenever a generator is completed until you perform an offensive action. Upon the the completion of the last generator, all survivors will suffer from the exposed status effect for 40/50/60 seconds.
No One Escapes Death: (Version 2)
It's a Hex
You have Hex bounded to the power of dull totems. Upon the completion of the final generator, a random dull totem will repair itself and have this Hex applied to it. Additionally, survivors that haven't cleansed a totem will have their auras revealed for 5/7/9 seconds every 30 seconds and they will now suffer from the exposed status effect.
The Hex effects will persist until the related Hex totem is standing.
No One Escapes Death: (Version 3)
Emblem Tweak
Destroying any random dull totem will award 5% in the Lightbringer category for "Precautions"
In-depth explanation of the perk's version's purpose.
Version 1: Reduces the failure
Focuses on giving the killer a boost when survivors make some progress while not counteracting the failure of losing all generators since the benefits are limited.
Version 2: Solo Q survivor friendly
Basically the same thing as the current NOED but more Solo Q survivor friendly and everyone will have to waste some of their time. Since it's easy to counter, I made the punishment for not cleansing a totem severe.
Version 3: Emblem friendly
Since you get rewarded for hunting dull totems, survivors of all forms including solo Q survivors will be tempted to cleanse more totems. Now we have more teamwork rather than a 1v1 totem hunting simulator.
Please tell me your opinions on NOED and DS? What would you change? Do you have a favorite rework version? Do have some civilized criticism? Please tell me!
Comments
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NOED is a crutch, but so many killers are absolute ass at stopping generators from being popped like crazy that it almost becomes necessary for some in order to not basically become an auto-depip.
I would be fine with these changes if BHVR would continue to fix some of the mechanics surrounding how stealth and chases work, but right now a lot of killers simply can't do ######### without NOED to fall back on.
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I think NOED is fine the way it is. Yes it is a crutch perk, but it's also a consequence to survivors who gen-rushed without taking their time of breaking the totems just in case of a possible NOED. I've seen this happen in several games but that doesn't mean it's going to happen EVERY single match.
Even devs at the moment (from what I've seen on this forum) will just say the same response: "just break the totems" along with many others. I doubt they have any plans on changing it.
As they also said; while being right in front of the killer you shouldn't feel safe and try your best to get to safety as fast as possible. This is the whole point of survivors. Sometimes, you will have unfair matches it sucks but it happens. You won't ALWAYS win in every game.
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Noed and ds are fine, people seriously need to adjust, killers are able to completely bypass ds by dribbling to a hook, you can have your rework when THAT gets addressed FIRST!
Noed can be taken care of before gens are done even with a swf gen rush build, matches last about 15-35min if everyone does their part killer and survivors which is enough to take care of totems if only 2 are on gens and 1 is chase looping without being hooked/saved for the duration of the match.
if noed is such a common problem the fault is in user error not the perk because it’s completely possible to avoid being seen while getting all the totems before the gens are even done.
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Cool, I found someone who can defend 4 gens at the same time.Demoth said:NOED is a crutch, but so many killers are absolute ass at stopping generators from being popped like crazy that it almost becomes necessary for some in order to not basically become an auto-depip.
I would be fine with these changes if BHVR would continue to fix some of the mechanics surrounding how stealth and chases work, but right now a lot of killers simply can't do ######### without NOED to fall back on.
Please teach us senpai.1 -
I dont understand why ask for change when everything is fine with those 2 perks. It does break your games so hard or what?
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Noed the perk that has been complained about since launch. Its no where near as scary as early 2016. Considering it actually has a counter. Compared to back then it had 0 counter play. Ill never forget the days of killers sweeping teams with that after they opened the gate. Noed now is a cake walk vs then. And thus is why I say its fine as is.
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To cleanse totems you shouldnt have such info like how many totems left to cleanse so when you play solo its how it supposed to be its players problem if they dont cleanse totems, rank problem ,lack of knowledge how to play, different style of playing etc
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DS should be disabled on survivors that are not the obsession, it is really annoying when someone all of a sudden DSs you when you are about to hook them
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@Theluckyboi said:
DS should be disabled on survivors that are not the obsession, it is really annoying when someone all of a sudden DSs you when you are about to hook themYou should always expect ds just like survivors expect noed so dont carry them long
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Break the totems and dont rush gens.
Ez
Sorry but i just had to meme my inner survivor.0 -
That's exactly the issue if you play solo survivor. You CAN'T hunt all 5 totems by your own. It's wasting to much time. You can only do 3 at best and hope that the others do them. And even that wastes a lot of time if the killer is pressuring.
Imagine all 4 solo survivors are hunting the totems and only do gens of they confirmed all 5 totems are broken. Well, to this point noed doesn't even matter anymore cuz the killer slaughtered all survivors with so much time he has.
But you will see some people in this community defending this ######### and as soon as you come with ideas like kindred basekit and how many totems are left in the HUD to give solos some tools what swf already has they go mental.Post edited by DwightsLifeMatters on3 -
Whoever keeps saying, “noed is a consequence to survivors for gen rushing” is like survivor mains saying that, “DS is a consequence for picking up a survivor.” Do you not understand it HAS to happen for one side to win. They’re both crutches and reward both sides for minimal effort.0
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@Nickenzie said:
No One Escapes Death: (Version 1)
Not a Hex
You are infuriated by the progress your pray makes. Gain a 5%/10%/15% haste effect whenever a generator is completed until you perform an offensive action. Upon the the completion of the last generator, all survivors will suffer from the exposed status effect for 40/50/60 seconds.https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Hex:_No_One_Escapes_Death#Patch_1.0.5
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This content has been removed.
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"Noed can be wiped away."jackmadrox said:
Yeah but Noed can be wiped away. DS can't.Slayer said:@Theluckyboi said:
DS should be disabled on survivors that are not the obsession, it is really annoying when someone all of a sudden DSs you when you are about to hook themYou should always expect ds just like survivors expect noed so dont carry them long
Sure, SWF can do it easily but solo Q survivors? Multiple survivors can be looking for totems while the killer is putting pressure on them. This will just cripple the solo Q survivor team.
Remember, a single totem is easy to find but 5 totems aren't easy to find since you're playing hide and seek world championship. You're basically bringing 5 Hex totems to the game when you use NOED since any dull totem can become a Hex. Telling survivors to "Break the totem" won't solve the issue as well since as previously state in my OP:Nickenzie said:Common Complaints
"Just break the totem"
Like I said before, you are a single survivor trying to destroy all 5 totems before your teammates power on the exit gates. Basically, you can destroy a few totems but have NOED activate because your teammates didn't want to help out. Can you see the problem? You're 1v1 the killer when the game is built around a 1v4. Knowing this, destroying 5 totems will be difficult to the single survivor. This is just unfair.
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@Tsulan said:
Demoth said:NOED is a crutch, but so many killers are absolute ass at stopping generators from being popped like crazy that it almost becomes necessary for some in order to not basically become an auto-depip.
I would be fine with these changes if BHVR would continue to fix some of the mechanics surrounding how stealth and chases work, but right now a lot of killers simply can't do ######### without NOED to fall back on.
Cool, I found someone who can defend 4 gens at the same time.
Please teach us senpai.Oh man, count me in for lessons!
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NOED is not OP and this is coming from a survivor main. Its easy to counter but survivors get greedy and stubborn with their current loadouts to change anything to counter it. Not even that, they dont even bother to cleanse totems they come across and then complain when NOED is activated.
Totems can be cleansed in under 3-5 mins uninterrupted by a single survivor with the Small Game perk. Stop complaining at the developers and adapt with the perks the have given us. The perk is not OP in the slightest. I hate the perk as much as anyone but we have the tools given to us to adapt to these situations. But nobody uses them. @Vietfox knows exactly what im talking about.
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You're right @MuteNewtMuteNewt said:NOED is not OP and this is coming from a survivor main. Its easy to counter but survivors get greedy and stubborn with their current loadouts to change anything to counter it. Not even that, they dont even bother to cleanse totems they come across and then complain when NOED is activated.
Totems can be cleansed in under 3-5 mins uninterrupted by a single survivor with the Small Game perk. Stop complaining at the developers and adapt with the perks the have given us. The perk is not OP in the slightest. I hate the perk as much as anyone but we have the tools given to us to adapt to these situations. But nobody uses them. @Vietfox knows exactly what im talking about.
Everyone knows i'm a survivor main too and they know as well i have no issues with noed. As you said, you can get rid of all 5 totems in no time thanks to small game and still genrush. The only problem with noed is survivors who don't want to change their build or have a different playstyle to counter it. If people get killed by noed it's totally on them since there's a damn counter.1 -
@Vietfox Im glad you see sense with me here
It can be countered and we have been given tools to make it easier to counter also. I play every game with Small Game. Because I treat every killer as if they are using it. Because there is a high number of killers that run with it (and with good reason). Even if they arent using it, you farmed a ton of points with the totems and have a perk to aid you against a Trapper or Hag. I think it irritates me that people are blaming the devs before themselves and how they play.In saying all this I will agree that DS needs a rework. Half the reason survivors act less scared and overly confident is because of the second chance DS gives to being caught. Personally I like to get rid of DS asap and hate the thought of dribbling when the perk can come back to bite you later in the game. I always use Enduring to counter DS but it doesnt really feel like a counter at all. Nothing worse than chasing a DS user for ages only to have him get out and continue another lap of the map.
DS definitely needs a rework. In my opinion.
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^ That's the main problem of this community, they blame the game instead of themselves.MuteNewt said:it irritates me that people are blaming the devs before themselves and how they play.
I commented in another thread that DS might need to have an increased wiggle progress for non obsesion DS users. But honestly, a competent swf group NEVER runs 4 DS, they just need 1 DS user, aka "the looper" (2 as maximum) while the others genrush.
Any swf group which needs 4 DS won't be that good.1 -
@Vietfox That is exactly it. Its also become the standard now to blame Behaviour for a persons loss. Like in any competitive game you will win and you will lose, based on skill, tactics and judgement. Thats just the way it is. Is Dead by Daylight perfect? No. But the developers are on top of things and have been addressing the biggest issues the community has put fourth. People need to realise things take time. DS is gonna be next on the list im sure.
Id agree the wiggle for non obsession users is needed. But in a sense it wouldnt be enough I dont think. A SWF on comms could body block to make sure that bar is filled to activation. Pretty happy to see in the PTB patch notes that the killers perks and add ons wont be revealed until the game has fully ended. Good call on the devs end
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That was such great feedback!Severus_Swiggleton said:There really is no DS problem and even less of a NOED problem. Stop whining about perks that are perfectly fine and play better.
Thank You!
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Thats exactly ds can be wiped away noed cant you either get insta downed or complete secondary objectivesjackmadrox said:
Yeah but Noed can be wiped away. DS can't.Slayer said:@Theluckyboi said:
DS should be disabled on survivors that are not the obsession, it is really annoying when someone all of a sudden DSs you when you are about to hook themYou should always expect ds just like survivors expect noed so dont carry them long
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People aren't getting how perks are supposed to work. They should be things that slightly cover your weakness or give you a slight advantage in one area.
NOED is so relied on by weak killers, I get that but a killer shouldn't only be viable by the use of a single perk anyways. I'd buff the weak killers and then look at NOED as a whole. Perhaps version 1 will really work well for the new version of NOED.
What do you think @Vietfox?0 -
Lets face it noed is not op its only op when gates spawn close to each other but thats just rng. Devs need to remove rng from the game like on every killer favoured map there should be three gens that located very close to each other and on every survivor favoured map they need to be located slightly close. There shouldnt be maps where all gens are far away from each other etc.0
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The problem is the it takes a solo Q survivor team too much time to remove NOED while SWF can remove it in a heart beat. I don't think RNG will be the factor that decides in NOEX activating, it's the fact that humans are lazy. I even had games where I cleansed 4 totems then got hooked because the killer knew I was hitting totems. Sadly, I couldn't get all the totems before my teammates powered on the last generator so I hoped at least they destroyed the last totem. Nope, I couldn't rely on my team to do one simple thing. This lead to me getting sacrificed unfairly but I didn't care, you're gonna have those games. However, when it keeps happening something is wrong because there's only so much that you can do. That's why NOED version two will make the whole team participate rather than the single survivor.Slayer said:Lets face it noed is not op its only op when gates spawn close to each other but thats an rng. Devs need to remove rng from the game like on every killer favoured map there should be three gens that located very close to each other and on every survivor favoured map they need to be located slightly close. There shouldnt be maps where all gens are far away from each other etc.0 -
They are not lazy they just dont see that big of a deal in noed.Nickenzie said:
The problem is the it takes a solo Q survivor team too much time to remove NOED while SWF can remove it in a heart beat. I don't think RNG will be the factor that decides in NOEX activating, it's the fact that humans are lazy. I even had games where I cleansed 4 totems then got hooked because the killer knew I was hitting totems. Sadly, I couldn't get all the totems before my teammates powered on the last generator so I hoped at least they destroyed the last totem. Nope, I couldn't rely on my team to do one simple thing. This lead to me getting sacrificed unfairly but I didn't care, you're gonna have those games. However, when it keeps happening something is wrong because there's only so much that you can do. That's why NOED version two will make the whole team participate rather than the single survivor.Slayer said:Lets face it noed is not op its only op when gates spawn close to each other but thats an rng. Devs need to remove rng from the game like on every killer favoured map there should be three gens that located very close to each other and on every survivor favoured map they need to be located slightly close. There shouldnt be maps where all gens are far away from each other etc.0 -
I been targeted too for being caught cleansing totems also. But there is plenty of time to get the totems if you don't get into chases. But it's gonna happen at times and there's not much you can do about it. If all survivors chimed in and cleansed there wouldn't be a NOED problem.
Maybe most players don't feel there's much incentive to cleansing them or are just to lazy. Having the prospect of NOED turning a winnable game into a complete loss should be incentive enough to cleanse the totems. It is for me which is why I do my best to cleanse all totems every round.
Small Game, Distortion and Urban Evasion are my go to perks. If I have any handy I bring a pink map with add ons that let the team see the location of the totems too.
I see what you are getting at though @Nickenzie. More of a team effort to disable NOED. But it's just players choice not to do so unfortunately. I rarely if ever see anyone equip Small Game or maps. But that's just who I been put with in the thousands of players the game has chosen from. I know for sure there is tons more people out there that play to disable NOED before it ruins a game.
It's just a luck of the draw who you are teamed with if you are a solo player.0 -
Exactly if noed would turn loser into winner everyone would cleanse totems every game but they dont. There s another reason why people dont take maps , flashlights , keys. Cause if they do killer may simply dodge the lobby i hope with dedicated servers killer wont be able to dodge or at least they will but without forcing survivors to wait way longer.MuteNewt said:I been targeted too for being caught cleansing totems also. But there is plenty of time to get the totems if you don't get into chases. But it's gonna happen at times and there's not much you can do about it. If all survivors chimed in and cleansed there wouldn't be a NOED problem.
Maybe most players don't feel there's much incentive to cleansing them or are just to lazy. Having the prospect of NOED turning a winnable game into a complete loss should be incentive enough to cleanse the totems. It is for me which is why I do my best to cleanse all totems every round.
Small Game, Distortion and Urban Evasion are my go to perks. If I have any handy I bring a pink map with add ons that let the team see the location of the totems too.
I see what you are getting at though @Nickenzie. More of a team effort to disable NOED. But it's just players choice not to do so unfortunately. I rarely if ever see anyone equip Small Game or maps. But that's just who I been put with in the thousands of players the game has chosen from. I know for sure there is tons more people out there that play to disable NOED before it ruins a game.
It's just a luck of the draw who you are teamed with if you are a solo player.1 -
I really do think either version 1, 2, and 3 can be possible rework methods. Preferably version 2 so those lazy survivors will actually have to do something.MuteNewt said:I been targeted too for being caught cleansing totems also. But there is plenty of time to get the totems if you don't get into chases. But it's gonna happen at times and there's not much you can do about it. If all survivors chimed in and cleansed there wouldn't be a NOED problem.
Maybe most players don't feel there's much incentive to cleansing them or are just to lazy. Having the prospect of NOED turning a winnable game into a complete loss should be incentive enough to cleanse the totems. It is for me which is why I do my best to cleanse all totems every round.
Small Game, Distortion and Urban Evasion are my go to perks. If I have any handy I bring a pink map with add ons that let the team see the location of the totems too.
I see what you are getting at though @Nickenzie. More of a team effort to disable NOED. But it's just players choice not to do so unfortunately. I rarely if ever see anyone equip Small Game or maps. But that's just who I been put with in the thousands of players the game has chosen from. I know for sure there is tons more people out there that play to disable NOED before it ruins a game.
It's just a luck of the draw who you are teamed with if you are a solo player.
Thank you for your feedback! This is what I come to the forums for! 1 -
Remove Noed
Remove DS
Replace them with some gimmicky perk to have fun with.0
