Circle of Healing is proof the devs hate killers
Seeing as they'll NEVER fix hex totems, they decide to give survs yet another broken perk to abuse. Why can't killers rebuild their totems when they only have 4 perks vs. 16? Oh wait, they hate half their base. Why keep totem spawns so obviously surv sided? Oh yeah, hating the base. No wonder killers are dropping like flies the real agent of the Entity are the meat skins riding multiple broken systems...
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Yeah, they clearly hate the side which did receive a lot of Buffs over the last 5 years and favor the side which gets nerfed for 5 years. CoH is the first Perk which is actually Meta after the release of David. Clearly, shows how much they favor Survivors.
I would not even compare Hexes and Boons, the only thing which they have in common is that they have some glowing flame at a Totem. And thats it. Hexes dont need to be build up for 14 seconds like Boons, Hexes are not heard from miles away, Hexes work map-wide.
I am pretty sure they will nerf Boons at some point, but please at least dont complain about Survivors running the same Perks all the time if you shoot against that one Perk that made people change their Builds.
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I don't think they hate killers. Hate is a strong word. They simply just do not understand the deeper complexities of their game, they have shown many many times that they are incapable of properly play testing their game before release. Whether they do this through sheer incompetence, lack of resources, or pure ignorance is beyond me. But i can very much assure you they do not hate killers. They simply just don't know how to properly balance their game.
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True.
There are variables behind the boon mechanic that many simply overlook. I like how boons (CoH specifically), are beginning to shake a lot of survivor's builds.
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Buffs?! You mean after they nerf killers before they leave PTB but take forever to address the brokenness they create on the survivor side. The devs have nerfed all things killer related so much they even try to word the changes like they're buffs or somehow making the killer better like some politician trying hard to care during election season.
You must be kidding. Hex totems will spawn directly in front of survs at the start of the game, takes seconds to destroy, and you NEVER get it back. No one cares about the loud noise or the pretty colors of boons when you can REMAKE THEM ANYWAY, often with whole teams carrying them. Boons don't need to work map wide because they cover large areas and give free self healing. Don't try that equivalent BS.
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I don't agree with OP.
However, I guarantee you that CoH will be looked at in the same vein as old DS, Undying and MoM in a year.
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"Don't try that equivalent BS." says the guy who compared Hexes and Boons in the first place...
Killer got better and better over the years. Before Boons were introduced, Killer has been the easiest it ever was. CoH makes it harder for Killer and I am ok with that. And honestly, I dont think I really lose games because of Circle of Healing, the only times where I remember that is when it is used on multifloor Indoor Maps, and I am even saying that they should only work on the respective floor.
But you cannot really say that Killer is hard. It is harder than Survivor, but overall, DBD is a very easy game.
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When you release a game so broken you leave editable saves on peoples harddrive, you do indeed need to spend a lot of time fixing it. Shocking.
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It's fully possible that the devs just wanted to shake up the meta, or make sure Boons are note-worthy.
Which they should be, since this was a brand new mechanic.
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Takes 14s to set up CoH and ~3s to remove it....
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Snuffing out the boon does not remove the perk from play since survivors can rebless the totem again. There is no option the killer has to remove boons from the game without killing the survivor with the perk.
Let killers break the boon totem so it can't be reblessed as the first step to giving boons fair counterplay.
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3+s is a long time for a Killer to be spending on a side objective that will just pop right back up. And bonus points for being usable to tell every single Survivor where the Killer just was.
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Obviously they wanted them to be useful. You cannot release a Solo Survivor Paragraph and use the same 3 ######### Perks like they normally do for Survivors. Aside from Mettle of Man, Survivors would not need to do a single Bloodweb for years, since no Perks were really good.
But Boons changed that and it is a good thing. You want things that actually make Survivors change their build. It would have been really bad if they would released Boons as a new Mechanic, create a Survivor in a Survivor-only Paragraph for it and then they just suck.
Personally, they can nerf them into the ground, I dont care, because I dont play Boons. And probably never will. But for the Meta itself it is good that they exist.
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Circle of Healing isn't proof Devs hate killers. It's proof that Devs don't understand basic math.
Self-Care, a solo perk, lets you heal in 32 seconds.
Circle of Healing, a group perk, lets anyone self-heal in 16 seconds.
But wait, you have to Bless a totem first! Well that's okay, because the time to bless a totem is 14 seconds. Which means that your first self-heal takes 30 seconds, which is STILL faster than Self-Care! And the totem stays up for everybody else to use freely!
And EVEN BETTER: Self-Care makes your med-kits last 20% longer, while Circle of Healing makes EVERYONE'S med-kits last 100% longer, while ALSO making the med-kit heal twice as fast!
These are not complicated numbers. The totem is so embarrassingly better than every other healing option in the game that it's completely broken on its face. Even if only one survivor could use it, it would STILL be a better version of Self-Care. The fact that the whole team gets a slice is just mind-boggling.
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I had thought everything being so OP for once was because of people leaving BHVR, allowing for fresh blood to shake up the meta. I hope these trends continue personally, we got some updates that the community really wanted, new OP stuff to shake up the boring, boring meta with no balance teams to listen to the forums whining about new things that they have to learn to deal with... things are great right now.
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Im still waiting for the possibility to select my hex spawns. That's the only fix for survivors spawning near totems and hex spawns near generators which is completely dumb.
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This.
I wouldn't consider boons an issue if CoH wasn't so insanely strong. The main issue with CoH is that its power level is equivalent to a hex - something game changing that needs to be removed and carries serious penalties if you leave it ignored - but it's not a hex mechanic and it's infinitely replenishable, so you can't actually remove it. Shadow Step and Exponential are in a different weight class. The most I can say for them is that Shadow Step is very map-dependent and that Exponential was definitely not created with the Twins in mind.
Claiming BHVR hates/loves/coddles/courts the money of either side is just inflammatory rhetoric. It's distressingly common in these parts, and even understandable, but it will always be dishonest. They love this game, they're just not especially good at creating a balanced product and there are a few core issues they either don't want to or don't know how to address which spiral further out of control with every piece of new content that's added to the pile.
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Ok so you took 3s to remove a totem and they will take 14s to bless it again, or you could intervene during that process if you know where they were before.
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Because going out of your way to the corner of the map to spend 3 seconds to snuff out a boon totem that will be reblessed there when you have gens on the otherside of the map to protect is a great use of killer's time.
This is the ultimate issue with boons. It does not matter that a killer can snuff them out. It doesn't matter the act of snuffing out the boon is quick, because it's a time sink when it involves doing nothing else as the 1 player in a 1v4.
Boons are simply fundamentally broken by design.
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When you mention the time spend for a Killer to walk to a Boon, you also have to think about the fact that the Survivor spends the same time to go to said Boon to heal. So at some point the Boon will either be in an area which is not relevant for the Killer and the Survivor will not really save time while healing OR the Survivors relocate the Boon to the area of action, which makes them spend more time setting up the Boon (and makes it easier for Killers to snuff it).
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Survivor time is far less valuable than killers since it's a team of 4 survivors. It does not matter if 1 survivor has to spend time to go off and bless that totem, because it's always a net gain for the entire team.
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There's no reason to blindly ignore the state of the game for a boon totem... but that doesn't mean you will never find one while chasing a survivor or doing gen rotations
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Old MoM was less powerful than coh
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using perks is not abusing them...
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Please tell me that's not your actual argument.
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Why would you play a game if you genuinely believe its developers HATE you? Or do you think maybe you're being a little dramatic and victimy?
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Have not seen many impactful survivor nerfs compare to killer yet. That is unless you call removing infinites a nerf and not just trash tier level design.
The only real nerf to a survivor perk that didn't get 12 months of warnings and ptb's was MOM and that was because it was universally agreed to be bad for the game. Every other "nerf" was just a side grade to the perks.
Killer perks and even entire killers cease to exist past the lower ranks or new players after they are nerfed while the survivor perks are still full on meta and don't really change.
The game is/was better for killers compared to launch, but that doesn't mean it is in a good or fun state, and boons are just bringing the game back to the dark days.
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Ok so let's talk about the alternative then? What good are you doing as a killer by not snuffing the totem
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Wow, the feedback quality in these forums has really gone down hasn't it?
We are now resorting to... "they hate us".
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Your original argument is flawed.
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I don't see it. That's why I thought maybe you wanted to talk about the alternative more
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IDK man…COH is the new Self-care and I’m noticing too many of my teammates being focused on relighting their boon on the other side of the map, instead of finishing the last gen or two. I lost a game to this because my 2 teammates kept focusing on boons when we were three genned. Killer whittled us down.
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You assume that the Killer simply appears on top of the Boon when they decide to break it.
That is not the case.
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Killers recieved mostly minor buffs, high level play proves how trash the game is pretty well.
Survivors did not have a meta change for such a long time, simply because of how broken all the meta perks are.
There is not a single killer perk as strong on it's own as any of the survivor perks. And they can bring 16 of them.
Boons also are map wide, there are 4 survivors and each of them can use boon, resulting in possible total of 96m radius area covered with boon effects.
No wonder a perk that lets you heal in 8 seconds mid chase is picked by half of the players every game.
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1) Even if they buff killers (which is rare), it doesn't even matter if they buff them if the killers are still terrible. And the only reason why there haven't been any survivor meta perks since
DavidLaurie is because the current meta is so ridiculously strong that the competing perks need to be even more ridiculously powerful.2) Comparing boons to hexes are a bit of a stretch, but it is strange that the devs gave killers another objective rather than the survivors. Because one survivor placing a boon is barely any time lost, and is actually a time gain if you get enough heals out of it.
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They don't have to be on top of the totem when it's blessed. It takes 14s to bless the totem. Nothing more.
It takes 3s to then snuff the totem at any time. Nothing less.
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I don't think I lose against boons that much either. I just don't like the whole bum rush with borrow before I leave the hook.
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I'm not going to pretend that I am a killer main but I do play killer pretty often. But honestly when playing killer as of late I will admit CoH can get out of hand at first. But then after I've downed a couple survivors I tend to watch where they keep running to during chases/ after they get away. If I hear the totem I snuff it immediately and deduce whose my culprit. I mostly main Hag so honestly I don't have to worry too much since survivors panic and forget about traps and I down them too quickly when I figure out what totems they're blessing non-stop.
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Right, because having à strong perk that Can be abused by good survivors is justified as long as it changes 1 perk of the 6 meta (and in swf it can be only 1 of the 16)
How about nerfing the super strong perk that can be abused while buffing the weaker ones to make them viable to use?
Oh i guess surv probably wont use them anyway, they arent second chances that can stack right ?
There are already à lot of very good survivor perks, but since theybdont give à second chance if they ######### up, well surv players often say they are weak and dont use them
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The killer buffs have been crumbs compared to what survivors have gotten.
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I remember them nerfing the strongest survivor item in the game in the same patch CoH arrived.
Pretty mindblowing how little reaction there was to that. One of the most frustrating parts of the game gone and hardly anyone bats an eye.
CoH is probably going to get looked at next midchapter if they keep their method of reviewing dlc for the second midchapter after release
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That's not true. It's only a net gain if the boon affects more than one heal. If it gets snuffed after one heal, survivors gain nothing. If it gets snuffed before one heal, survivors lose time.
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1 CoH is fine, its an annoyance, but not breaking.
Multiple CoH breaking.
Multiple CoH on small maps, say Ormund when i had 3 CoH is just head desk material.
If survivors wonder why they will be tunnelled and camped, these are perfect reasons to.
Wounded survivors with CoH active has no value. Survivors on hooks is worth far more.
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So, if I'm holding a 3-gen in Preschool on Badham, but CoH is in shack, it should only take me three seconds to snuff the boon.
Dumb argument tbh.
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The survivors will always gain time if it takes the Killer more than 1/4 of the time to snuff it that it took to set it up. Therefore, the survivor can spend four times as much time finding it as the killer does.
Any actual effect of the boon totem is a bonus on top of that.
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You can't nerf most of the survivor meta perks.
Because they're really weak perks. The only ones that stand out as potential problems are BT, DH and IW. And that last one is apparently bugged.
BT should remove collision for its duration so it can't be used offensively, DH is much more difficult to balance.
But particularly DS and UB are really weak perks with very conditional application, limited value, and unbelievably easy counterplay. I never got hit by them once I learned to recognise a survivor trying to bait out a DS, rendering the perk entirely useless.
There's an issue with the whole 'second chance' angle, too, in general: Survivors have three hook states. The game is designed from the ground up to give survivors three chances. The fact you're complaining about perks that try to ascertain that survivors get a second chance shows you're not interested in giving them a fair shot.
Don't tunnel, don't camp, don't slug.
If killers never did any of those, DS, UB and BT would die out immediately.
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That's assuming all four survivors are up and running. And the killer takes 1/7th of the time to snuff it, so I think we're good.
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If it takes the killer 2s to snuff the totem (the actual animation lock and anim), then they gain 1.5s total assuming they took 1/4 of the time to get to the thing as the survivor did. But the odds that it took 1/4 of the time to walk to the totem are extremely low: if it's just out in the open, the time spent was likely about the same, and if it's in one of those annoying upstairs spots or the killer just doesn't stumble on it by accident and has to look, the survivors gain time.
So boons in general balance out to survivor-favoured on time if the killer snuffs it. And CoH is just timesave central if it stays up due to its ridiculous multiplier nature and being faster than self-care. With no other sources of accelerated healing, is it slower than "hide behind first wall seen and self-care"? Marginally. Every other scenario? Faster. Every survivor that doesn't then need to bring self-care or a medkit or find someone else? Now it's racked up utility on top of still being faster than whatever healing they were going to do anyway.
CoH makes the boon time equation absurd.
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Nice troll bait
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Imo circle of healing isn’t even OP, like no joke if its a big enough problem for you have you ever heard of sloppy butcher? Really does alot more than people think and alot of wraith players tend to use it
This is also probably why we’ll never see perks that are meta come from new chapters as well due to how when we do its immediately problematic and needs to be sent into orbit and burn, trust me when I say if boons were utterly useless we would get a forums post on how we never get good survivor perks and how the meta has been the same for around 4 years now
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And the devs don’t “hate” killers just because they come out with new mechanics that people think are OP.
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