With all those Killer-good-bye threads I have been thinking...
Hello everyone,
Killer mains complaining and Killer mains feeling so much pressure, that they feel they have to announce a bigger break, have always been part of this forum, but lately there are a lot of these.
Most often the answers are a mix of appeasing and wholesome, uplifting words and a few more entitled or antagonistic/sarcastic ones, (somewhere between "you worked your way into the sweaty mmr, now deal with it" and "so you decide how we survs have to play, in order for you to have fun?").
And me, being a diplomatic killer main, I have always chimed in with my own experiences, and tried to also understand the other side.
But just now a thought struck me: why do we see so, so many killer mains, not only complaining, but also leaving, yet so few survivors? There is a fair share of survivors voicing "please nerf thia" or "xxx is too strong", and the survivors strongly voice their pov in the respective "bye, I'm leaving" threads, but I can't remember to have seen a single "the state of the survivor core game is so busted. Bye" threads.
So, is it, that more whiny, low-endurance and entitled brats play killers, while more though and resilient players main survivors? Or might the game actually be slanted in the survivors way, and playing killer (at least in the higher MMR) is really a lot more taxing and stressful?
Mind you, I am not aiming to attack the survivors here, but after a while it seems to be this way. Or maybe there is another explanation? I recently started to play more survivor, because I finished 2/3 of the killer tome quests, and I appreciate good survivor gameplay now much more, while despising tunneling, having experienced it myself way too often.
Yet, I still think that most snarky survivor responses in this good-bye-threads really don't know how though the killer side of things is vs a bunch of experienced survivors with all those perks and techniques at their disposal.
I know that this here is mostly rambling and "more of the same old", but yeah, I also believe that if things were truly balanced, or even more balanced, we would see a lot more survivor mains being fed up with the game.
The end.
Comments
-
The answer is yes.
Killer is extremely stressful when all players in the match know what they are doing. This causes players to burn out fast.
There is no argument.
59 -
Honestly i don't care if it's more suvivor sided i can live with that since its the more popular role.
My problem is that killer QOL at the moment is pretty bad. Sure some killers have been buffed in general but many are still lacking. The best change is to make more perks viable and fun but it seems like its constant power creep with the new perks getting introduced vs buffing old ones more consistently.
Survivors have had fun new additions but it seems like for every 2 new toys survivors get killer gets one hand me down toy.
Its gotten to the point where i dont care to play killer and just want to make life hell for others killers doing dumb suvivor stuff because that's what everybody says you should do.
For me its literally become "if you cant beat them, join them" and i kinda hate it tbh.
7 -
I don’t mean to sound cocky but remember that post I made about how exposed should work on all attacks. This is what I’m talking about! People said it would be overpowered and to strong and then complain about how the game is unfun for killers. With the way killer is right now would it really hurt just to make exposed work on M2 attacks?
7 -
Not only is the game survivor sided, with killers being intentionally weak to balance for solo queue, and not only is killer QoL in the gutter, with weak killers being nerfed and others made to feel clunky, but even when things are going well and you’re winning, many killers just aren’t that fun for a sizeable % of the playerbase.
If you think about it, playing many killers is akin to a running simulator where you’re intermittently stunned and that’s about it. You run along, chasing someone who’s just out of reach. Then you break a pallet, essentially being stunned, and run along again. Then you hit the survivor, essentially being stunned as they whizz away, then you run along again. This time you get hit by the pallet and are stunned, then you break it, stunned again, then you run some more. You hit the survivor again, they go down, and you are stunned as you pick them up, and again as you out put them on hook. It’s just a whole lot of running and being stunned with no satisfying upside.
Even the mind games are sort of boring busywork. You win the mind game and watch as the survivor whizzes away. Your reward? More running along, more pallets, more windows. If the survivor wins it’s far more satisfying as they get rewarded with more looping which is actually the most fun thing fun for them.
Then you add to that the balance issues, the bugs, so on so forth. Fun times! 😂
9 -
Whatever you believe about anything else in this game, we can all agree on one thing:
Using your killer power should FEEL FUN.
The killer powers are the entire point of the game. They change up the conventional rules from one match to the next, add variety to the killer cast, and dictate how survivors have to adjust their normal play experience. Above every other part of the game, it should feel good and fun to use the power and extremely rewarding when it actually works out.
When Huntress lands a cross-map hatchet, that feels great. When Nurse perfectly times the blink to clip a dodging survivor, it feels great. When Myers reaches T3 and proceeds to decimate an overly cocky team, it's a dream.
But, with increasing frequency, we have killers who are either designed poorly or nerfed too harshly, degrading that power-enjoyment experience. Pyramid Head was fun to use, before he got four waves of power nerfs. Freddy was a treat until he got evicerated. Wraith got buffed to be fun and then nerfed almost immediately afterwards. Spirit lost her stealth, Deathslinger lost his stealth AND his hitspeed, Twins got a punishment for SUCCESSFULLY landing your power, Trickster was released pathetic and even when he got buffed he got a nerf built in, Nemesis was released with a broken passive that still doesn't work, Pinhead got a pathetic active power and had all his useful addons nerfed to make his passive useless as well, and on and on.
It should surprise no one that people increasingly are getting less enjoyment from playing Killer. SWF, Boons, Maps, and all that aside; the Developers have lost sight of making powers Fun and Rewarding to use.
15 -
Absolutely not
0 -
It's half this, and half the sheer number of gloating, BM survivors that aren't satisfied with just winning - they want to hurt killer players.
If you are already a strong SWF group, stacking addons and a map offering just to roll, flicky flicky and teabag people, you are basically driving killers to quit.
I've had survivors in postgame state this this is their goal.
Possibly.
But...think of it this way.
There are more survivor players than killer players by a mile. One side is happily teabagging away in game, the other side are on the forums expressing their frustration.
That in and of itself indicates a problem with the role.
7 -
Funny how i just said this in another thread.
The thing is killer is just stressfull by design. They are in constant action and under constant time pressure. There never is a real downtime with killer unless your so far ahead you can't lose anymore.
Survivors just don't have this as much. While you will have times where you get tunneled back to back a single game where someone else is the target is all you need to atleast regain a little composure.
Couple that with the state of balance and killer mistakes in general being much harder punished then survivor mistakes and you have a role that's under constant pressure.
The frustration builds up causing more mistakes and more frustration untill it suddenly snaps.
You'll notice that a lot of these "I'm leaving" generally come from "mains" very rarely will somebody make a goodby post and say they play both sides. They always play the most pressured side back to back. Being a pure killermain wouldn't be a good idea even if the game was more balanced
That's why M'Cote's advice of "play something else" is so misunderstood. It really makes a world of difference to even have a little breathing room. It's one of the best advices we could have had but we took it completly the wrong way.
Even the most intense action movie will never have action non-stop. It's always action into slow scene into action into slow scene etc.
Our brain is just not wired to deal with that constant stimulation. The game and bassicly everything in life becomes a lot less frustrating if you remind yourself to take a step back once in a while
3 -
Then don’t cry and complain about how the game is survivor sided and killers are weak when I’m offering the key to help save killers from going extinct(I sound nuts but it’s true every killer is leaving)
2 -
I’m not the one complaining about a “survivor sided game”. I’m just stating I don’t agree with your idea cause it’s too OP.
0 -
I’m sorry about that I’m just annoyed right now I didn’t mean to go at you like that.
0 -
No worries it happens to a lot of us.
0 -
Honestly, I think the comparative constant stress would be fine (there's a lot of games that get to be like that when you play them all the time), if it wasn't for the current game balance/design adding stressors. I think the posts further up partly got to it: you're not getting a good payoff for doing well as a killer a lot of the time. You win a chase/mindgame, and you have to do part 2 of the chase. You land a tricky power shot or do well with it? Well, play the wrong killer and it hasn't done anything.
And every mistake is basically followed by "ping! one gen has popped". A survivor mistake can be followed by something as simple as "I need to heal."
1 -
People take this game way too seriously. Instead of getting triggered, laugh it off and be entertained. If a game is stressful for you, that's the first sign the game isn't for you. I've been playing this game as a solo killer and survivor non-stop for the past 4 months and have not once felt stressed out. Quite the opposite, it's so fun I can't stop playing. Battle Royale games stress me out and I refuse to play them. No point in wasting time complaining about something I don't have fun playing.
0 -
This may sound harsh, but you are putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm.
The core issues with killer are:
- Map imbalance. Badham, Haddonfield, Grim Pantry, Cowshed, Heaven and probably more I'm missing can be a nightmare on the wrong killer. It's not so much a size issue, as it is a density and proximity of strong loops and pseudo-infinites. Breakable walls can't be the end-all answer.
- Boons were a terrible idea and should never have gone live as-is. At the very least, snuffing a boon should destroy that totem.
- Dead Hard was the most meta of meta perks before the 'fix' (see: buff). Shifting the validation issues to killer makes this a defacto third health state that also constantly feeds killers fake hits.
- More than half the killer roster feels neglected and either has an outdated kit, awful addons or both.
- Survivors being BM. I think a lot of killer woes would vanish overnight if BHVR started moderating their game more. I know that strobing flashlight macros destroy me, and my photosensitivity issues are pretty mild.
- MMR not adjusting for SWF groups and throwing killers into SWFs with 10x their hours because they waited in the queue for a bit.
You could look at it that way, but you'd think that by the law of averages you'd see as many survivor focused complaint posts on the forums.
Aside from Sluzzy posts, the only ones I see are 'I see too many Blights and Nurses at high MMR' or 'camping/tunneling is bad'.
Killers on the other hand will pen entire theses on how to improve the game.
6 -
Yes, because you'd just be masking the issue.
1 -
I don't play multiplayer games that often so i don't know that many of them but there are very few games i know that have this constant action like killer in dbd has.
In shooters there is a timer when you die or you have to wait for the next match. In moba's there is a lot of farming as far as i know. In a lot of rts's there is a rebuilding fase after armies clash.
Fighting games are the closest to this i can think of but those matches are a lot shorter then dbd matches
0 -
And besides a few complaining threads, you never see (at least I can't remember) survivors announcing, that they leave the game. This could be, because most play at least partially with their friends so the important peeps already know, but I also got a feeling, that this might validate, at least partially what wr all feel: that the balance is tilted in an unhealthy way.
0 -
I know personally, I was so killer main I only owned 4 survivors and had the rest of the perks thru the shrine.
I have fully switched to survivor lately. Brother is the same, and the 2 friends I know have done the same. All of us without telling the others, we have done it independently.
0 -
I’ve just never understood why killers would want a team that doesn’t know what they’re doing. That’s kind of like taking candy from a baby or, babies in that matter.
0 -
Really? All I've been thinking reading those threads is "attention seekers". Especially, when I read them and there's a whole lot of whining about non-issues, like that guy complaining about 'being forced to run lightborn'.
2 -
A lot of games (some platformers, soulslikes, racing games) only really have a stress-free downtime when you choose to stop at a menu and navigate things. In that regard, I think most action games are actually pretty similar to DBD: when you're in game, there's rarely going to be a breather where you can stop and take it easy.
DBD has the same menu -> period of constant action structure, so I don't think it's terribly atypical in that regard, but the stress doesn't really have corresponding moment-to-moment highs, it's all in the kills/results.
0 -
I already left, only time I play the game again is if my friends plan on playing dbd and I have nothing else I want to play at that time.
0 -
I honestly think it's because there are more killer players on the forums, to be honest.
1 -
Tbh, that lightborn complaint is a real non-issue. But not all killer complaints are just attention seeking rants.
0 -
Don't strawman.
It's not any more fun to stomp lowbies than it is to get stomped by monsters.
Winning or losing is fine. What we want is close, balanced and fun games - and not having to camp out a survivor during EOGC to secure a kill because someone sent Trapper to Haddonfield.
The problem is that MMR likes to throw you to the monsters as a snack because they had a long queue time, and that survivor groups tend to be extremely ungracious when they win.
There is almost a soft expectation for the killer to give the last survivor gate/hatch, to the point where not doing so is widely considered to be BM. Whenever I don't do this, it's almost a guarantee that I'll get cussed out in postgame.
There is no expectation whatsoever for the reverse - I think I've been given a 'pity kill' twice in my 300 hours odd of playing killer, once because someone was lag-switching with No Mither and once because a survivor was legitimately embarrassed by the behavior of their SWF.
Not to mention that - if you play killer - you'll have survivors teabagging, flicking and hanging around in the exit gates to try and do the 'nope, get stuffed loser' last second 'heres a charity hit, no just kidding lul' thing. Every single match, without fail.
Double standards frustrate people, especially when they are always at the greasy end.
I'd probably agree.
The thing is - why?
People generally come to the forums because they are unhappy with some aspect of the game. When this consists overwhelmingly of one side, it's an indication that something is badly wrong with your game.
6 -
Same can be said for SWF vs. killers...
0 -
Survivors have voiced their opinions but to me it has always seemed like there are more killer players than there are survivor ones that frequent the forums.
That is the general assumption from the outside in, and why the forums have become sort of a meme. Similar to Reddit.
4 -
Well I stopped playing survivor for over a year because solo queue is such an unbearable shitshow. I am considering myself a casual player, but that doesn't mean I like to be completely out of control of the match outcome and enjoy 80% of matches being 4ks for the killer with 3-5 gens left. I just didn't feel the need to write a goodbye post just because I'm personally not having fun anymore while many others still do (besides, I wasn't really saying goodbye to the whole game, I was playing killer during that time. It's 100% the better experience because I'm fully in control and if I lose it's only up to me).
0 -
Yep. A lot of killers just want much easier games. This is also why they complain about MMR so much. Killer isn't that hard (unless you get a VERY good SWF team). It's kinda funny seeing all these threads at this point, though. Very entertaing to read.
1 -
Yep. It's pretty obvious.
0 -
The name is sheer irony.
It's not a matter of 'being good'.
When I can play 10 matches out with the same build, same level of skill and same style, but:
- Stomp game 1 because I got queued into newbies on DDS
- Get stomped in 2 because I'm playing Pig and got sent to Haddonfield, The Game or Badham
- Win 2 because a survivor DCed the second I down them
- Get stomped in 1 because someone is hacking/lag switching
- Win 1 because survivors couldn't find the hooked survivor/boxes in RPD
- Win 1 because survivors got unlucky with boxes and their heads exploded
- Get stomped in 2 because I got queued into a fully stacked SWF with 10,000 hours between them to my 300
Then my lack of enjoyment doesn't come down to 'play better' - it comes down to design problems and the community.
2 -
Very true.
1 -
Difference between knowing what they are doing and being just plain evil in how they play. I’m fine with a team not being complete noobs. I’m not fine with map offerings, DH, DS, BT, and two flashlights. Add on the rude behavior, trolling, and hit validation. It’s too much.
0 -
And I was trying to explain the reason.
Killers have a lot of legitimate gripes. The role is stressful, and a big part of that stress comes from some areas of this game that are poorly designed, outdated or imbalanced. Combine that with how BM survivors generally are, and you get one role that is becoming increasingly frustrated. They then come to the forums to express that frustration and suggest ways to improve things.
Aren't you the guy that pops up in basically every thread and goes 'no, x killer is totally fine, I main that killer trust me'?
Just...stop.
When one side of your game is incredibly unhappy with how things are, then it's usually an indication that something needs to change.
Part of that change is going to be balance related. Part of that change is going to be moderating this community and getting rid of the chuds.
Easier =/= Fairer.
We want fairer games. Stop matching 10k hour fully stacked stompcomps up against killers with a few hundred hours. Fix the maps so that you can't just loop a killer for 5 minutes on a pseudo-infinite because you got a lucky window spawn. Bring all killers up to Plague level.
It's also pretty amusing how you constantly claim to play killer, and yet - whenever you pop up - you make me think of Elmer Fudd in a rabbit disguise.
If you want to disagree, explain your reasons. Otherwise, you're just that 'git gud' meme.
7 -
those killer mains who make these threads are just baiting. they're really not leaving, they're just hoping that bhvr will make the game easier for them by expressing the woes of killer. if they were really leaving, why tf would you open a thread? just move on to the next game then
0 -
No, I usually only say that when I get accused of being a noob survivor main by all the salty killers on this forum. I am allowed to post as long as I'm not breaking the rules and I will continue to do so.
0 -
Shrug. That's on you then. Just remember - it's fine to be wrong, but when you stubbornly stick to your guns despite people spelling out in great detail why you are wrong and your only response is 'no u' - then you really are just embarrassing yourself. And this is the case whenever anyone tries to have a discussion with you.
Your constant, ever changing 'x is fine, I play that killer' responses really do not contribute anything to a discussion besides derailing it.
Is that your intention?
Because it's entirely possible to really like something, but also point out it's flaws and give feedback on how to fix them.
Naturally, this is the internet - so any feedback you agree with is amazing and if the devs don't implement it immediately they clearly don't care about their game, and any feedback you disagree with is whining and should probably just get people permabanned.
4 -
Honestly, i have a burn out with DbD, and i'm playing both sides.
The game is unfair, there is always something that is unfair, everytime.
- Killer gameplay is way to redundant to be fun
- Killers are too weak
- Too many design flaws with bad maps, too many perks, too many clunky actions, gen rush...
- Too much camping/tunneling
- Too much reward with low skill mechanics
I have around 2000 hours. Never felt so bad with DbD. I just don't want to play anymore.
2 -
I already explained that in the post above.
1 -
I honestly have a hard time (without accusing anyone specific) believing all those "I play killer and survivors equally and I have no problem getting 4ks while playing casually".
Apparently it's just "SBMM doing its job". I guess that a lot of this people haven't really experienced the killers side in a meaningful way, besides doing a daily ritual here or there. Playing survivors a few days opened my eyes to how aweful real tunneling feels. But really aweful SWF stomp groups won't show up just at the casual low ranks.
Sorry if this comes over as entitled or salty, for I am not salty at all.
0 -
No you didn't, but I'm not going to spend another hour going around in circles with you again.
Just understand that when people are frustrated and making balance suggestions, popping into their threads and just negating everything without trying even slightly to defend this negation, all you are doing is derailing them.
2 -
I'm both salty and as good as I think I am.
3 -
Going into a thread and giving my opinion on the topic being discussed isn't derailing it. If you or anyone else has a problem with my posts, then feel free to ignore them.
1 -
Indeed, every view and opinion is valued in asserting the situation at hand, not just the ones confirming our biases. So keep going on.
2 -
Stressful survivor game - tunnelled and over in 2 mins; possible abuse by 1 person.
Stressful killer game - taunted and immasculated for 20mins; potentially abused at the end by 4 people.
I know which my mental health would prefer.
2 -
I stopped reading the thread at this post because it is completely spot on.
I'm up to the red ranks for survivor and I'm at silver 1 on killer, I play survivor more often but I still put in a fair bit of time with killer, I'll probably have 3 survivor games to 1 killer game but I enjoy both, yes killer can be extremely unrewarding and at times downright unenjoyable, pop back onto survivor have a couple of chilled out games and then go back to killer.
And when I say that killer can be extremely unrewarding it can also be a helluva lot more rewarding than survivor.
escaping a game after escaping three chases getting 2 unhooks and popping 3 gens is nowhere near as rewarding as nailing your perks, acing all of your chases and getting 4k with only one or two gens pop as killer
0 -
hear hear
0 -
You don't see many killer mains "leaving" you see a lot of them announcing it just because they want attention.
Pretty much this.
3 -
Don't bother with how much killer this guy claims to play he doesn't have time to play survivor. Everyone of his post are killer is ez I 4k no perk gg get gud posts.
0
