http://dbd.game/killswitch
When a brown medkit with no add-ons is viable...
... you know medkits are too strong.
I don't harp nearly as hard on medkit healing speed as most others do. But maybe that's just ignorant of me. These instances of survivors being able to heal themselves in less than 10 seconds, no matter how rare, should not even be possible. But even though the heal isn't usually quite that quick, medkits and their healing speed are still an issue.
Ironically nobody at high level uses medkits to heal their teammates. Prior to the introduction of boons, survivors would run a brown, yellow, or purple medkit, and a healing speed add-on OR a green medkit which imo doesn't really need speed add-ons because it's already so fast. Now with boons, they're getting the healing speed bonus from CoH on top of their medkit healing speed OR without a medkit.
Why would you ever use Self-Care nowadays?
What medkits and CoH allow is for survivors to heal themselves very quickly without needing teammates to stop doing gens to heal them. For killers, this is devastating. It can take from 10 to 60 seconds to get 1 hit in depending on what happens in the chase, and if the killer doesn't commit to that injured survivor they basically undo that chase within a couple of seconds. Meanwhile, their team gets to stay on gens because the killer can't be everywhere at once. So survivors can get 2-3 gens done per chase regardless of if the killer commits to downing someone or not.
Not needing to heal each other and instead focusing gens while your teammates heal themselves up is super stress free and game winning for survivors. They save so much time on actions it's insane. Because let me remind you, it's a race against time for killers. Unless you're able to pressure all 4 survivors at once, they're progressing the gens, which realistically can't be undone. If you're slugging and detaching during chase and stuff like that, maybe you get 3 survivors off gens at once. But that 4th survivor is still on one. So no matter what, the gens can't come to a standstill through anything you can do. You can only slow them down, which is why Corrupt/Deadlock is meta. For those still running Ruin/Pop, welcome to the present.
But that's basically what you'll see. 2 or 3 survivors running medkits, even low level ones with mediocre add-ons, and they'll be saving their team a hideous amount of time, to where the gens can't not get done in time. They'll be done with time to spare, as a matter of fact. I was on the fence for the longest time about medkits being the "strongest item in the game" as others have claimed, but now I'm in total agreement. I can see them getting at least a sliver of a nerf, and really that's all they need.
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i don't mind medkits as they have a lifespan.
Multiple boons is just crap. Stomp one they use the other and vice versa, on smaller maps its horrible, al it does for me is just force into proxy camp and tunnel. Why wound when they can get a free heal at leisure, or i can stay near this bait on the hook and at least get 1 out.
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What? A medkit takes 16 seconds for self healing. The only exception is a green medkit.
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You also forget to mention that the Healing speed from the medkit and COH still stacks despite the medkit completely depleted. So just get a great skill check on your common medkit.
I've been noticing Killers has been snuffing my boons a lot actually but it could be just my Randoms being stupid that they'd heal beside the boon instead of taking advantage of the huge 24m radius. :l
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Yes, there is that bug where even when your medkit is depleted, it keeps the speed. Imagine if toolboxes did the same.
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shhh dont let the devs know
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I think med kits should be changed to altruistic only med kits, basically have a med kit only work on teammates to heal them faster, having a med kit work on yourself means you can break chase and heal in 16 seconds, at least if they make altruistic only med kits you will have to use it on someone else and at the same time it will force you to find someone else to heal you (that also has a med kit) so basically even if they break chase they will be forced to find someone else first (maybe it will take a survivor 15 - 20 seconds to find someone else and then spend an extra 16 seconds to heal the teammate with the med kit) instead of the standard break chase and heal yourself in 16 seconds...
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Edit: I'm mean. Sorry
Post edited by brokedownpalace on3 -
Hell no.
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Only an idea, propose something instead of just saying no then?
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The thing about altruistic healing with medkits is that it is pretty much never more efficient than it is to just give them your medkit and let them do it; the only exception is trying to pick up a slug more quickly. A green medkit for example takes 10.67 seconds to heal someone else with, or it also takes 10.67 seconds for that person to heal themselves if you just give them the medkit (and in the meantime you can do something else).
I think medkit self healing speed could be reduced to something between what it is now and self-care (so it still has an advantage to use over self care). A green medkit would become the equivalent of a brown medkit now (it would allow you to heal in the regular time). Altruistic medkit healing speeds would then be slightly buffed so that it isn't more efficient to just give someone else your medkit and makes altruistic healing more attractive.
I think styptics and syringes should just be changed to require at least enough charges left on the medkit to use (aka, you don't get to hit a great skill check on a brown medkit, then use the syringe when the medkit is nearly depleted) and then syringes should just be on a flat 20 second timer, after which time it heals you, and it has no regard for anything that impacts healing speed, either positively or negatively (no self-healing in 8 seconds while looping near COH). I think styptics should also be an iridescent addon, not purple.
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I don't think anything about medkits need to be changed. If people are healing too fast, the solution is to cap healing speeds so people aren't healing under 10 seconds. Not make medkits useless for solo q. Almost nobody uses medkits to heal others outside of topping somebody off quickly.
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It's tricky. As it stands right now it's pretty much -always- more useful to never use your medkit on someone else and to solely use it for self-healing. Maybe getting rid of the self-healing but buffing the speed at which you heal others could be a compromise, though since medkits stack with healing speed buffs from perks that can already get pretty crazy.
Medkits just in general are a -lot- stronger than people give them credit for and are easily the best item you can bring in terms of time saved.
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I don’t see the issue with medkits honestly.
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Just cap the healing speeds so people can't heal themselves in 5 seconds. That's the main issue at hand. With the boons + medkits + add ons + healing speed perks the fastest heal is what 3 seconds?
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Same here. Medkits are fine as they are, but as soon as a streamer says "x or y op" everyone else has to say the same thing even when they didnt think they were an issue before.
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Medkits are fine tbh. CoH and Built to last are not
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I think medkits should be limited to 2.5 health states. More than that is kind of BS, but otherwise medkits are fine. CoH is not though.
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I like my brown kits.
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Medkits aren't really an issue if they only have 2 or less self heals in them at normal speed.
They become an issue with 2+ self fast self heals(Aka stacked/Purple medkits).
Finally they are being exasperated by the existence of CoH which lets you self heal at double speed even without a full medkit.
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Why would they be weaker specifically for solo queue?
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Sometimes a content creator's opinion puts our thoughts into words. We already had that opinion, but we assume that now since they've said something, we'll have more weight behind our argument since it's not just us saying it.
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Always, it a full heal
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Medkits should definitely be dialed back. They become really problematic when multiple survivors have the ability to heal themselves multiple times over the course of a trial. You're saving ~20% of a gen every time someone can self-heal at normal speed and someone who would be healing is working on a gen the entire time. It also (in theory) allows survivors to spread out more easily.
I think a charge cap at 16 charges would be good, and any speed increases reduces charges.
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So cap at one heal and any speed increase wouldn't give you a full heal? Why would anyone ever run that?
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You mean the most extreme example possible? One where you burn every perk slot to make it happen?
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You get 1 heal out of a default medkit without anything on it bruh
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So you want to make them completely useless. Like bloodwebs aren't already full of enough trash as it is..
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This does raise an interesting question of what the primary purpose of medkits are, and specifically what the effect of healing is on overall game balance. Because the idea would seem to be that medkits let survivors heal each other faster, but they're primarily used for self healing.
And every complaint about self-healing speeds and CoH circle back to the same thing: if Survivors can heal themselves at normal speed or more, it completely neuters the way most Killers are designed to apply pressure and slow the game down. Cue the endless tunnelling/genrushing argument.
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4 coh solo-q gangstaz
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To heal teammates faster in an emergency. Medkits at a single heal puts them in line with toolboxes in terms of time saved on gens.
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Ironically, any time I've tried to go for a build with tons of heals in a medkit, it's been a Leatherface, a Plague, or some other killer who always commits to a down.
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I haven't tried Built To Last (which was fine even before the buff) on medkits, but I have tried it on toolboxes and it's freaking broken.
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Your problem is with the bloodweb then. I've suggested they let us ban 1 or 2 things from showing up in the bloodweb for each character.
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Brown medkits have always been an insanely strong item ever since they made them so a full heal.
No idea why anyone would bring selfcare when you can always bring a cheap brown medkit to do a quick 16s solo heal(8sec with CoH).
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That's what I'm saying. I'm thinking to these guys, "Y'all don't think that heal is quick?" It's like nobody's taking into account that their teammates don't have to get off gens to heal them.
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All item should be decreased to a single version of them: Brown
And they should work just slightly better than a perk. Example a Brown medkit without addon takes 24sec to heal.
In return, all items are free. Only addon would cost (such as a Brown addon increase healing speed to 16sec heal)
In the end, brown medkit isnt a big deal, its when you pair a Ranger with double charge addon on top of Build to last. Build to last alone isnt strong.
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Brown medkit is still a very strong item. Idk how you can say a quick 16s heal that you can do solo at anytime is not strong.
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Go ahead and nerf them if you want 4 CoH every single match, do you prefer that?
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You still see that now with the brown medkits lol.
You'd be dumb to not take at least CoH and have up to 4 boon heal zones on the map AND still have medkits.
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I know its strong, but its still limited to 1 use. The problem is its possible to have 4 Ranger medkit and double charge addon which can increased to 12-14 heals.
Items overall should be reworked to be a slightly stronger perk slot that limited use, as I suggested: 24sec to heal, one use, 0 BP. And limited to only 1 version for every item. And then, every survivors may bring a medkit. But the best they can bring is 2 heals with 16sec heal (2 best addon).
How items work currently is broken. If 4 survivors invest 80k BP into a match, you lose by the investment, not even about map RNG.
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The game needs to force survivor interaction it’s too easy to do things solo. It should take a team mate to heal and two to fix a gen.
med kits make healing quicker but again you can only heal others.
initially it takes two to fix a gen and the last gen can be done solo. BNP no longer super bumps a gens completion but rather makes it possible to fix solo.
you get the early game slowdown because the split up on 4 gens right at the start is no longer an issue and you get teams forced to be altruistic to heal one another.
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No, my problem is with making an item useless. Keys do nothing without addons. The green maps are useless without addons. So, no I don't want another useless item.
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a brown medkit with no add ons lets you heal once. The speed difference using it on someone else is barely anything, and get interupted or miss a skill check and you cant even heal a full state. I'd say they're barely viable alone.
Uncapped speeds of medkits with addons + COH are the issue, medkits alone are not. The main reason to bring a medkit is so you can heal yourself without needing to find another person, idk why people want that nerfed
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You're missing the point. It's not about the durability of medkits. It's practically a meme to try and put loads of charges on a medkit through add-ons and perks. It's the speed in which heals take place without a teammate needing to get off a gen. You just need 1 or 2 heals in a medkit for a match and you're good, because by that time the gens are most likely all done.
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Yes, I mentioned medkit (items in general) should be nerfed. So you dont lose the game just because survivors spent more BP than you.
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I honestly think that a Brown medkit should either heal you at 80% of the normal healing speed or have 14 charges so you can't heal fully with it, the yellow medkit should be like the current brown, the green should be like the current yellow and the purple should be like the current green medkit.
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I think they are fine as is. They have counters in the form of Sloppy Butcher, Franklin’s, Nurse’s Calling, & Overwhelming presence with anything that boosts your terror radius. This is why you are allowed to see what survivors are bringing in- so you can adapt. Killers should be able to switch their characters in a lobby, though.
@danielmaster87 you know who you should use if you don’t already? Legion & Plague. Those two negate healing- ESPECIALLY Plague. With these two you can focus on anti-loop & gen slowdown perks, while their main power negates healing to being useless.
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The only counter you listed there is franklins and thats more of annoyance if anything.
Heal slowdown doesn't matter anymore because of CoH cucking it hard.
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I've never seen someone suggest using Overwhelming Presence before to counter items, probably because you can't afford to run meme perks like that. Medkits actually counter things like Sloppy, not the other way around. And I shouldn't be limited to 2 killers if I want to not worry about healing.
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I was giving perk suggestions to counter medkits- I only saw this in the original post & not CoH.
Nerfing medkits is not realistic & it’s not going to happen. We have options available. Although they are not the best, they can alleviate some of the stress associated with the speed of medkits (personally i think they are balanced & fine). Sloppy slows down healing by 20%- an emergency medkit gives you a boost of 50%. Having them heal at 30% now, could be a difference maker if you catch them with say Nurse’s calling. Maybe you get to them just in time before they fully heal and down them, as opposed to 50% where they just finish healing in your face. Then it’s a hit and another time wasting chase to pursue. There are options and you can try different combos with perks and add-ons.
As far as Legion & Plague goes- It has nothing to do with being “limited to 2 killers,” but more about experimenting & increasing your skill set. Everyone has their fav killers, but if medkits are that bothersome- then it couldn’t hurt to learn & optimize Legion & Plague so you can have more games where that item is rendered useless. It’s good to switch it up. I get the whole “i shouldn’t have to run this perk or use this killer to counter this mechanic” argument- i really do. But it is what it is, and with only 4 perk slots available for both killer and survivor- we all are leaving ourselves exposed to something.
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