To anyone who thinks the grind is okay...
... why? I honestly don't get why someone could think it's at a remotely acceptable level especially given the game just dropped for free on yet another platform to bring in new players.
Like, let's take my current thoughts: I want to play with Artist's Scourge Hook perk, so I need to get her to level 35. Then I need to farm out the one character I've been unlocking perks on consistently so I can get that. Hm, but if I'm considering double scourge hook play, maybe I should grab Agitation? Well, I haven't done anything with Trapper, so that's another 40 levels plus perk unlocks...
To play with one perk combo on one character. That's... what, 1.5mil BP for 75 levels? 2 mil? Which is, optimally, about 21 games with BBQ+max BP, and if we're generous and say 4 games an hour factoring in gameplay and queuing and loading screens and menu, that's five hours minimum. 10 hours if we halve that BP gain just for things not going perfectly.
10 hours of farming and not trying anything new until I can play... one perk combo.
There are 25 more killers alone to theoretically level. And prestige. And then there's survivors too.
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Don't worry, we're getting 30k bp every other day! That's just under half the amount you get for a average bbq match :D
You'll get your levels in no time!
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or 1 good Survivor game where you escape and you brought at least one good bloodpoint offering :)
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Oh yeah baby, we be swimming in bloodpoints
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I see enough of the meta without it being an immediate option.
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I mean, that's even less fair on newer players. "I want to see less meta, so it's good that you won't be able to employ competitive loadouts for another 100 hours of gameplay."
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Don't see how it's not/less fair. Like everyone else we put the time and effort into the characters for the perks, then did it again for the other characters we wanted them on.
New players have it no different, target the perks you want first then casually dump BP into grinding out the other stuff.
The only players this is actually tough on are completionists that chose to put everything on everyone.
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Because new players are eternally faced with an even steeper and steeper grind to achieve parity. Every new release is like a casual 2-3 mil BP dumped onto the pile, on top of the millions and millions already needed.
If you started when there were less than half the characters, unlocking meta perks, levelling who you wanted, and getting meta perks would've been a comparatively small task. Each new content drop isn't that much in isolation (though if you want all perks on everyone for options then each release is also an incrementally larger grind than the previous one). But when you add it all up then even without prestige it's a freakin' cliff now.
The way the grind is set up is doubly punishing if you're new to it. You want to get good perks on one character? Well, you need to level this character, and every other character with a perk, then that first character again. Want to try a new perk? Hah, 40+ level grind. Want to try a new character? Well, hope you're either planning to wait another 16 hours of gameplay to actually have a nice selection or like playing with random derp.
Repeat this fifty something times across both roles.
Having been able to spread this grind out over the past five years is a massive advantage. Should every newcomer to the game be faced with a several year wait to just be able to make free choices? Except the amount of total grinding needed is exponentially (I mean this literally)† increasing with every content update?
† It's like compound interest. You add new fixed BP reqs (new character to get to 40-50, plus optional prestige) and a variable amount of BP that's based on the number of times you've done this before (unlocking all perks). I think the game is actually close to the tipping point, if not past it, where that variable perk-obtaining step is growing faster than the raw BP requirement to get the character stuff.
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I found playing killer fun enough without the exact perks I wanted. I got addicted, bought every killer, leveled up up almost all of them to unlock their best perks, now after 3 months of playing I can have even more fun playing with some crazy builds with all the unlock options now available for my killers.
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There was a time where you can get two maxed out perks in one blood web but now that's seemingly impossible. The ######### happened.
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I'm a completionist so I want all characters on both sides p3 lv 50 with all perks as of last November I had that on 13 survivors & 11 killers on ps4.
Then I got a series X & started the whole grind again.
Currently Meg is p350 with all perks (including newest chapter) kate is also p350.
All other survivors are level 50 not prestiged.
All my killers are also level 50 none prestiged.
I play a lot (well I did time is way more limited recently, so limited i've only claimed the advent calendar twice!) & as a new play which I sort of was (started from scratch at least) I can see why some find it off putting but personally I think without the grind I wouldn't play nearly as much after so many years.
Like achievements in general my goal motivates me to continue onwards & I will make it too I don't doubt that.
At best i'd make all perks 1 level rather than 3 it would save millions of blood points & reduce the grind quite a bit.
Or maybe my preferred option would be to rework the entire bloodweb, add more perks per level & remove so many useless things your forced to buy that don't remotely resemble value for bloodpoints.
I'd also like an option to sell or I guess the entity would probably say burn junk my characters have for say a 50% bloodpoint refund which will also futher help with the grind at least a little.
The grind will always remain in some fashion or another like the archives its designed to encourage players to keep playing it works for me & many others until that changes not much else will either.
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I don't remember anyone saying the grind was fine
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The grind always existing is one thing. It's when it's defended as okay in its current state that I get confused.
Bloodwebs full of random junk; no control over what perks appear when; needing them to show up multiple times... and it's all so very delayed, presumably as that's the best way to pad out non-completionist grinds on release. 40 bloodwebs for perk unlocks. Another half a dozenish or more per character per set of perks.
to just play with new perks on one character and every single character needs this same grind so don't you dare want to play with someone new unless you like MMR screwing with you and bad QoL...
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Well, there's at least one post in this thread already that strongly implies it.
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There's no time disparity between new and old players. Older players have spent that time across the game's existence, new player have that ahead of them.
In the end both players have/had to invest the same amount of time. It's not an advantage to have purchased the game sooner; if anything it means the grind was longer for the veterans as they actually had to wait between the dlc drops with some wasting BP on maxed out characters for add-ons and offerings.
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And having to invest the same amount of time actually makes for a surprisingly unfair playing experience, because only new players who have a lot of time to spend on this in particular are ever going to even slightly catch up. Meanwhile, more content is added, which is easier to grind for experienced players (more likely to have BP offerings etc. on other people, challenges to bank, BP saved...), and even more to catch up on.
DBD has the same sort of player-every-day incentive as mobile games do, but what it doesn't have is the sort of thing a lot of those start implementing once the game gets too much content for new players to ever reasonably catch up: outright free resources, some sort of time-limited bonus to make the early game grind much more bearable, or an outright skip button.
Because if you want everyone to go through the same time investment, you create a game state where newer players can't equally take part in new releases. Tome challenges that need characters and perks that might have not gotten attention, new character releases and even less position to try them out or experiment with their perks etc. on other characters, even random stuff like the event-limited addons you don't have the other tools to use. And this gap only gets worse and worse.
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Kinda curious on what a hardcore completionist like yourself would run on their survivor or killer. I'd assume it's all stuff to get bp like wglf/bbq etc.
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It’s fine because I have everything already! (Please BHVR change it now)
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I'm certainly not saying the grind is completely fine & I suggested a few ideas on how it could be lessened with various bloodweb changes & partial refunds in particular.
The vast majority of the bloodweb is irrelevant to me.
On the survivor side I never uses torches just not my thing so every torch & add on is a watse of blood points.
Most killer add ons aren't worth even half of what they cost.
I don't use map or mist offerings or those new pointless basement based here offering along with so many more.
The bloodweb needs a complete overhaul.
I would not be in favor of players choosing perks though while the grind & more especially the luck if which perks you unlock first promotes more varied game play.
New players should be looking to try out what they have not automatically jumping to meta perks they saw a streamer or guide use.
I don't run any meta perks on either side & do well enough with both.
Playing with multiple perks will ultimately make you a better player & give you far more varied games than just running meta all the time.
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In all online games you will always find shills. Don't think this one out too hard. Some people defend vexing features like the obscene grind, because they have an agenda and others do it because they like being contrarian edgelords.
You won't be able to change either's mind with rational arguments, because they aren't doing what they're doing for rational motives.
Look no further than this thread.
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A lot of "try out what you have" runs face first into some perks being outright bad though, or totally unsuited for the killer in question. And everyone wants BBQ.
It'd be even more miserable if Jolt wasn't a generic perk now to make it easy to get; no gen regression assistance at all without getting the right characters. MMR doesn't care; do well you'll be shoved into a position you want something or other.
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Survivor I almost always use either
Spine chill, kindred, dark sense & it use to be small game now detective hunch.
Or I play survivors in rotation using only their adept perks.
On killer I'll use a random mix of whatever I have available.
On ps4 it was usually bbq, tinker, & 2 others
In xbox its pretty much any 4 none hex or slowdown perks.
Most of my killers don't have BBQ & I rarely use it these days because I don't pay much attention to looking around when I hook someone & no personally I don't believe the majority only use it for blood points.
I also play both sides perkless quite often just dor the challenge & or stat collection further down the line.
I do or did play a lot (as in at least 4 hours virtually every day) in particular on xbox over the past year (or at least until late October this year then time became less available)
But like I said I know i'll get there, the grind doesn't bother me personally I actively want to achieve my set goals but I don't actively have a time frame for doing so.
If I combined all my dead by daylight play time across all 5 platforms i've played on i'd be doing very well.
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The economy of DBD suuuucks. The the pittance of BP we are gifted is an insult in the face of the absurd grind. They could give us 100K every day of the year, and it would barely make a difference. I mean how many BP does it take to max out a character (not even prestiging, but getting all level 3 perks), 10 mil?
I can think a of a few ways to address this, if it will only help a bit:
- For the love of god, get rid of the perk tiers. This might have made sense like 3-4 years ago, but there are just too many now. It's oppressive.
- Get rid of items that don't do a damn thing (i.e. fog offerings, luck offerings, etc.)
- Simply give more BP, or reduce the BP cost of items/perks/add-ons.
And prestige...for get that. I P3'd a few characters before I realized it was a total waste, especially in this economy. I don't play this game all day every day, I'll keep my stuff, thanks.
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The grind is fine for ME. As it is, I take a break not long after capping out perks and screwing around with new builds. I wouldn't play nearly as much if the grind were less.
It does suck for newer players though or people wanting to get all perks on all their characters.
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Iv got 4k hrs, 5 surv at p350 and 23 killers p350 without full perks, i abuse every bloodhunt, did all archives, all daily rituals,every giveaway codes, everytime playing with bps, sur pudding and escape cake playing like 10 hr a day and still sucks so the grind is a problem. Ps also with bbq and wglf.
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I'm at 5k hours and have every survivor p3 50 and 12 killers p3 50 and still grinding away. It's ridiculous.
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Yea this thread has surprised me a lot 😂
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Im thinking of expaning bp pe match, atm max. Is 32k bp. So if is gonna be 50k is somwhow decent. Instead of 8 k in a category to get 12.5k in each category. Or just make perks tier purple 3 all.
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I saved up 1.8 million give or take a few and only got artist to level 44. Some characters have more Red/purples which cost more to level those ones up (Mike, Artist, Bubba come to mind). I took all killers to P3 not necessarily because I have to complete everything but because I didn't want them to add something for prestige down the road after I get all perks without prestige.
Really small things could help with the grind (Rifts help) like selling unwanted items, plain removing unused items from web, remove perk tiers at the very least tier 1, reducing cost of items in blood web by half at least. I think it would be cool to be able to choose some perks to take with me after prestige or all of them off course. If you are going to prestige it's best to not spend anything on the character once they hit 50 so maybe they can take perks that they own up to that point IDK. Selling unwanted items sounds the most fun.
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Without the grind, there is no reason to play this game.
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If you join a PVP game with progression after it's been growing for 5+ years you should expect to be considerably behind the curve.
We've all done it. They can manage it. Someone should make sure they know the efficient way of unlocking perks on a survivor.
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Honestly, I do think the grind is horrible, but it works. But I really wish they would reduce the grind
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they said in the last Q&A stream they plan too, hopefully that will be soon.
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The grind is fine.
IN MY OPINION, it's acceptable for survivor, but perhaps a little steep for killer.
The two main reasons I believe it's worse for killer are:
1) The strong perks are much more spread around the characters/ more exist in the DLCs.
2) You need to unlock the perks on every killer you want to use them on. Survivors are all the same, so you only need to unlock on the one.
Most people however, new and old to the game, main survivor. Survivor grind is in my opinion, absolutely fine. More than fine. You can have the unlocks from just a single character and have a top tier build with ease. ALL FREE. The free characters have amazing perks.
Generic: Kindred. Spine Chill. Resilience.
Meg: Sprint Burst. Adrenaline.
Bill: Borrowed Time. Unbreakable.
David: WGLF. Dead Hard.
If you've barely played the game. You're still a certified noob. You've earned 2-3M BP. You can be playing as one of those three survivors, with the perks unlocked from the other two. You have nine fantastic perks to choose from, as well as all the other mediocre ones. It speaks VOLUMES, that I haven't listed Jake above, as he only has a single top tier perk, which is more than most survivors. He has Iron Will (only level 30 too), which is arguably the best survivor perk in the game (most of the competition for that title coming from perks listed above).
I don't think new players can have any complaints about the strength of the perks available to them, or even the variation available to them. I really don't. So they can't try out every build in the game... Well that's the fun of the grind, but if you're a noob and you think you've not got access to top tier builds, then the good news is that you're just plain wrong.
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Bloodweb doesn’t bother me since I just play with the perks I get as I go, I don’t try and unlock specific perks on specific killers. And I don’t buy dlc killers for their perks, I get them to play as that killer. I even prestige when I get to 50 just to reset and do the killer with a new set of random perks from the web.
I totally get how people who want a specific perk on a specific killer think it’s a grind. But if like me you don’t care about that then it’s not.
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It took me around 150 hours during the anniversary event to level every survivor and killer to 40, and that was WITH 500% bonus bp. Something really needs to be done about the grind. I feel bad for people that start playing now
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I don't want to try out new Killers because the amount of time it takes me to grind for even the perk that will let me grind at a less horrifying rate is disgusting. It's more than "a little steep."
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The grind is fine...partially.
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You think that the grind for just the perk BBQ is "disgusting"?
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Level 35 on a DLC Killer and then you need to hope it pops up on every Killer you want to play some time soonish? Yeah, that's kind of a pain to go through.
It doesn't help that generic Killer perks have, like, one good perk and a handful of situational ones? Jolt is useful. Fearmonger also sometimes (and those were previously DLC). Something like Thrill of the Hunt may be handy. Free killers... well, there's Tinkerer's as the standout for general utility. Nurse has some useful perks, on Nurse.
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It sounds like you guys at least agree with me that the situation for killer is much worse than for survivor. You're even giving the same reasons. I wouldn't have expected a guy with 500 posts on these forums (let alone 10k), to think the grind was too much though.
How many killers do you really fancy playing much, as a noob? If you're just doing a daily, or trying them out for a game or two, surely you don't need any perks at all. If you find a killer you enjoy, you'd then level that one up, no?
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Yes. In the time that I played as Artist in PTB, I never saw even the Tier 1 version of it.
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I play Xbox. I don't even know how the PTBs function. Not sure they're a good measure of this topic though.
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Survivor is way better except for completionists, at least if you just want to get a "good" perk selection and then just experiment, yeah. That much is pretty clear.
The problem is, if you focus on levelling even one Killer for a while, to the point of at least having a few perk choices, that's all well and good--well, until you want to try specific things (see my initial scourge hook complaint--I like the idea of scourge hooks and having the other one to go with Pinhead's would be fun, buuuut). Or, worse, outright play a new killer. Because MMR isn't super kind about it all, going into games with the RNG derp the Bloodweb's feeding you is not fun.
And personally, I find the least fun way to try a new character is "half blind, half deaf, with nothing to help with time pressure, or extra pressure on Survivors". I'm not going to get regularly matched against no-perk and random-perk survivors unless I do really badly, the extra disadvantages don't help make it enjoyable.
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While I do agree that the grind is terrible
What I do is to at least have 500,000 BP saved up before I do anything in the bloodwebs
I know that it won't help but it's something
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I find it very boring prestiging or leveling up a new killer, especially with how many perks there are now you never really get any of the perks you want. So much so that I see no real point in prestiging anymore because the cosmetics don't even look good most of the time.
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For the purposes of traversing the blood web, it functions identically to the main game.
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I believe the opposite to be true. That might be partly because I have ~200 hours of playing pig (that you probably don't have) and any new killer I try, will always be against survivors I find easy to do well against with any/no perks. I think the separate rankings for different killers is one of the few positives of the MMR because you can just jump onto any killer you've never used before and do absolutely fine. Even if that isn't the case for you, it surely soon would be the case after a few games, when your MMR decreases.
Look, I agree with you that the system is "a little steep" (as I said) for killer. I really do think you're making too much of it though. The game should not be designed so that any random noobie can just hop on and try any build they want. A lot of people enjoy grinds like this. You get it when you earn it. It encourages you to play more, which ultimately will lead to you buying more, so the developers will never make it too easy.
I'm personally in the situation now where I have every survivor and killer at 40, with Pig, PH and Kate having all perks. So I still have to dump multiple millions of BP into any killer I wish to truly experiment with. I've played ~700 hours to get here but honestly I never had any large annoyance at the system along the way. How many killers do you seriously want to play a lot of? If you want to master multiple, then the amount of BP you'll earn along the path of doing that will fund their webs just fine.
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I play only Pig partially because the grind for any other Killer is unbearable.
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Personally, I don't mind the grind. I like seeing numbers go up.
I think the fact it's not skippable helps people play unique builds (since it forces them to), and unique strategies are good.
However, it shouldn't be required, since it does limit accessibility.
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Most games I've started years after the game's been in progress at least have some sort of catch-up on the grind. DBD... does not. It's still maintaining the same proposal to new players that it has for... what, the past 5 years now? Since patch 1.3.0?
Always telling newcomers "after you have hundreds or thousands of hours in the game, now you can play with different combinations of abilities on different people" is just... weird. You have a game with 2 sides, 26 distinct character abilities on one side, 90 perks on the Killer side and 101 perks on the Survivor side.
There's 2.5 million perk combinations on the Killer side, and 4 million on the Survivor side. "You must literally spend enough time to master the game" (assuming 1000 hours investment is enough for basic mastery) to everyone who wants to... experience that, ever, is not great. Not everyone's going to be able to put in more than a few hours a day, or maybe they can only play a few times a week. Several years of playing to be able to catch up to where a moving target was and still be way behind is a bad grind. And then there's prestige.
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