Who in the world thought snowman armor was a good idea?
I say we give the dunce cap to whomever decided that being hit inside the snowman does not damage the survivor within.
Comments
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Snowman OP thread #843057 and counting..
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That's only because you assume the fun for the killer side and the added difficulty (yet another second chance for survivors) has any weight in their decisions.
It's not that they don't learn big maps are bad, killers are pressed with time already, etc ...
They simply don't care ^_^.
Once you put that into perspective, the event is a success.
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I wouldn't say it's much protection, a lot of times you can injure or down them just as they jump in.
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As you say, they are of no use when you're an inch from certain doom, but they are of use when planned ahead. The survivor can enter it earlier than the killer's swing range, after pallets or windows. The added diversion time may not look much if you look at the 1v1 situation only, but this game is 4v1 and that means 3x survs are getting free time, even if you consider snowman's effect on the chase nonexistant.
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Two solutions I've found is death slinger shooting them just negates it. Second, clowns pinky finger add on still insta-downs them through snow man. Very funny the salt you get. But tbh most survivors just want the event prizes and are chill. If snowman costumes are causing you to lose games then I got bad news for you man. This is from a nearly 2000 hour killer main so maybe I'm based.
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Well, in recent 6 matches 4 of them had survivors abuse the snowman. They sometimes cost me the game, and sometimes were just annoyances. However, that doesn't change that the snowman does have an impact on the gameplay balance.
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It's not really that useful as armour. There's a reason that survivors who don't want to mess around are, at least in my experience, simply ignoring the snowmen- they can be hit during the enter animation, they don't get any distance beyond what they can get from a wipe animation, multiple killer powers hard shut down the snowmen, and they can't do anything while they're inside the snowman so their timing (and luck on snowman placement) would have to be absolutely perfect to get the miniscule value they can actually get.
The only serious advantage survivors can get if their timing is good would be to counter very specific killers- mostly just Twins and Ghostface, and kinda Legion but not really.
People keep making the snowmen out to be unbalanced and a "free hit" or "third health state" for the survivors, when that just doesn't bear out in reality.
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As I said, they are not useful as "Oh no, the killer's swinging, I should get in", but useful pre-planned, such as after a vault. You probably would get some time back, such as going back over the previous vault position. Even if the situation doesn't get better, at least the situation stays the same, provided that the snowman survivor planned ahead instead of deciding to enter the snowman at the last second, so other survivors would get free time.
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That is predicated on a HUGE "if", that being, if there's a snowman positioned to a place they can do that. I don't think I've ever seen that actually happen, and even if it did, that's at best an extra vault on one window, which isn't that huge.
It's also predicated on the "if" of the killer not playing someone that just shuts down snowmen, too.
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It's another stupid dev idea, and its execution is amatuer. Yes sir you are correct. I feel sorry for the Behavior they try so hard and keep failing.
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And I'm just saying that that "if" occurs more often than you would expect.
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Considering the almost limitless possibilities they could have gone with it's a pretty weak gimic. I feel like they focus so much time on cosmetics these days they could actually use that time improving their game. But I suppose that's not as much as a cash cow. But then again in the long run a good game keeps people playing longer
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I'm sure you'll forgive me for not believing that right off the bat. I've been playing through this whole event, and I think a survivor got any value at all out of a snowman all of once- and even then, they got downed about five seconds afterwards since the snowmen are actually pretty garbage as tactical objects.
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Most skilled survivors ignore the snowman. Those are the ones you should be worried about lol
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If they can keep tricking people with a Candy Cane weapon, frosty eyes, charms and Sweaters. They deserve their fans.
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I'm just throwing it out there, I didn't know there was a candy cane weapon. I retract my earlier statement
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It's really cool.
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Is that seriously it? I wanted to bludgeon somebody with an oversized treat
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Convince me that this is tactically useless
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...Is this... a joke?
I don't speak the same language as this streamer so I'm not sure what they're saying, but why did they stop? That hook was so close they genuinely could've hit the snowman and ALSO hit the Cheryl if they chose to keep bodyblocking without the Steve wiggling free, and they also just stood there after dropping Steve for some reason?
To top it all off, the clip ends with the Cheryl escaping and the Steve getting hooked, which is exactly what would've happened if the snowmen weren't in the trial?
I honestly thought the Cheryl was going to hop out and get a pallet save, which would've technically been some minor value from snowmen, but even that could've been played around by just not picking up the Steve so it wouldn't have been a strong point anyway.
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The point is, that the killer had to swing, and the survivor got a free swing off. If the downed place was further apart, it would've resulted in a drop.
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Okay? Fine? That's such a niche use that requires really precise timing to work that I honestly don't mind that extremely minor advantage being in the game so we can have the fun goofy snowman shenanigans most people are using them for.
Like, sure, survivors can use snowmen to take a protection hit that would've otherwise downed them to save a carried teammate, IF there's a snowman placed just right that they have time to crawl over there before the killer can either freely hit them or just move to a different hook. You've convinced me, how OP!
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I've shown just a sing example of usage, and that wasn't all. I don't record my games, so it just is that I don't possess more of vids to show.
However, I can assure you that the video ISN'T the sole purpose of it.
You forgot, or are ignoring, that I said it can be used after vaults. I also showed you that it can be used as makeshift loops, or protection, to waste killer time which is 4x more valuable than the survivors. Also, if there is a snowman in otherwise dead end, which occurs after the introduction of breakable walls, it also can be a ticket out of that dead end.
Taking only one of the points I said, and responding in sarcasm that I've displayed only one point, seems like a douche move to make to me.
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I've already covered being used after vaults, I pointed out that there needs to be a snowman near a vault and that the value it gives that survivor is slightly less than just vaulting back would. It also requires that the killer can't circumvent the snowman, which a fair few can.
I don't see how it could be a ticket out of a dead end, unless the survivor was already close enough to a good loop that all they needed was the amount of time it takes for a weapon wipe animation- less if the killer hits the snowman from the front, since that makes survivors run into them.
I'm not ignoring anything here, friend- you're ignoring the reality of how little distance you get out of snowmen, which is what prevents them from actually helping at loops, in chase, even in deadzones. You can get miniscule value out of them in hyper specific scenarios, or against two of the killer roster, but to make out like they're anything other than a fun novelty with extremely limited application is simply wrong.
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Just vaulting back like you say isn't possible, as the killer would down the vaulting survivor. How can you go back into the vault location that the killet just came through, without the snowman and the noclip effect?
As for a dead end, I was refering to literal dead ends, like the 2F room in Dead Dawg Saloon. If a snowman is there, then get in. The killer has to hit you, giving you time to get back out.
Finally, I never said it was a "Get outta Jail Free Card". It buys your team more time to do more repairs, AND if you're lucky, gives you advantage in a chase. I'm saying that the snowman's effect is more on the whole game's outcome rather than the outcome of the specific chase.
Simply put, even if, and that's an if, you lose distance overall by going into the snowman, the killer time wasted would result in more in total, as it is 4x more valuable.
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It's not "Oh no, I lost a chase because of snowmen", but "Oh no, snowmen caused me to use up too much time."
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If the killer just vaulted through it, you're getting hit in the enter animation. If you finished the enter animation before they finish the vault, you would've wasted more of their time running somewhere else.
Which is really what it comes down to. You keep saying it "wastes killer time", but if you're losing distance and gaining nothing, what time is being wasted here? It's either exactly the same for the killer, or they lose less time because the snowmen are kind of rubbish and only work for goofing off or very specific niche situations that don't pop up that often.
So it's not a problem for the vast majority of cases, we've covered that. The niche scenarios it is useful for only give a small amount of extra time-wasting, we've covered that. What's left is to remind you that these aren't designed for serious, tactical play, they're designed to be funny disguises that survivors can use to goof off- the cost of that is a very slight advantage they can gain some of the time, and that is more than worth it for the limited amount of time they're in the game.
Now, it's more of a problem that specific killers like Twins and Ghostface don't get to use their powers, that's a thing I'd like to see corrected if they pull this out for next year, but if you're not playing those two (and debateably kind of Legion? A little bit?) then everything else still stands.
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The issue is more that killers don't get any sort of new tool to play with, while survivors do. The Halloween event demonstrated that BHVR can make an event with fun and dynamic stuff for both sides.
I think you are drastically underestimating how strong the snowmen can be when used correctly. I see a lot of people run into them and use my miss animation to just make it to a pallet they wouldn't have been able to without it.
And yes, the fact that it futzes with killer powers while being completely negated by others (Doctor, Bubba) is annoying.
It just feels like this event was farted out without much testing or consideration.
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I don't subscribe that much to the idea of "one side" getting things while the others don't; both sides got the comedy of snowmen trudging along in the middle of the trial. Now, that being said, I think that comedy would have been increased if killers could also hop into snowmen, so I'd definitely support that being made as a change if this rolls around next year, but that's a slightly different matter- an improvement, not a "fix".
As to your other points- did they really manage that, though? The snowman would have to be in an extremely precise location for that to work out, since the enter animation is nowhere near instant. If by the time you've caught up they're fully inside the snowman, I find it really hard to believe they wouldn't have reached the pallet in time anyway.
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Yeah man, I get a lot of enjoyment out of watching other people in interact with the cool new stuff in the game. The stuff that does nothing but stymie me while giving my opponents an edge.
Killers should have gotten something out of this event. It shows where the devs' perspective and focus is that the entire event is focused around survivor enjoyment.
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I do often find that pushback on that sentiment is predicated on survivors getting "an edge" from snowmen.
Killers did get something out of this. As already said, killers get to enjoy the goofy nonsense of the snowmen just as much as the survivors, and killers got more of the cosmetics.
Giving more directly interactable things for killers would be an improvement, but it's not a fix.
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Most likely a survivor main on the dev team. Many Survivor mains for some bizzare reason lack the empathy to understand why this event sucks for killers. And the thing is, no one can convince me that if this event could randomly make the survivors exposed or exhausted mid game, while giving them nothing to do or any benefits at all, that this forum would not be on fire with survivor complaints, and rightfully so.
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Funny thing is they 'Take the hit' for pig's head traps too... XD
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