Thoughts on locker flashlight saves?
I would like to hear everyone’s opinion about it.
Comments
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If the argument that everything must have counterplay goes both ways, "this thing wot can only be dodged if you have lightborn" needs fixing.
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I mean its usually pretty telegraphed when survivors try to do this, just go for the person whos about to go for the save.
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Fun way to save teammates and actually requires good timing and precision.
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I think it's good that it's something with a really high skill cap that you can do, and usually there's ways around it, but in some cases (ie two lockers next to each other where you can't pull out one because the other will get a save) I think they need to rework the map design around the knowledge this is possible.
I'm all for it staying in the game, but map design absolutely needs to be adapted for it.
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It's an animation lock...one of many /shrug.
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You’re facing a wall, therefore it shouldn’t even work in the first place.
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then you smack them and they reach a pallet and you have let the other person escape.
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I love them. It usually hands me a lot of free downs if I'm expecting it.
If I'm not expecting it, then hey; good job and well played too.
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then you're applying pressure on 2 survivors who aren't working on gens and one of them you can guarantee to keep chasing
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As much as I hate flashlights, I think locker saves are fine. They require precise timing to pull off, so there's some skill with it.
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Why is your face in a locker and you get blinded anyways? if i faced a wall in any other situation, I would avoid the blind altogether. Remove it!
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well some lockers arent always next to a long wall. Some are at a corner of a wall so then you can get a angle there.
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What if there are two lockers next to each other and the other survivor is inside one as well?
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I think this is a thing for flashlight saves in general but you shouldn't be able to get blinded if you can't even see the survivor.
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No it doesn't. On some lockers, you can 100% guarantee a save. I've had a team basically hold the game hostage on DDS using this and a few other tricks.
The problem arises when there are two lockers together. If both survivors have flashlights, there is no way to grab one without the other getting the save. It's literally 100% foolproof.
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then you have 2 survivors messing around not doing gens, move on and go pressure the others, and if they're healthy grab them out. Worst case scenario you get out of there with an injure which depending on the location (most double locker spots are at Long wall short walls) could of resulted in nothing in the first place.
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Except:
- Usually they aren't just standing there waiting. A lot of the time they just make a beeline there during chase. It works something like infinites do/did - allowing you to safely escape if the killer is chasing you. Do you think that this is healthy/balanced?
- It can also be used to take a game hostage with no way for the killer to prevent it.
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Not doing gens? You know they can just hop out of the locker the moment you go away, right?
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And you know that they don't just teleport to those lockers right? If they're screwing around doing this that means they haven't been working on gens.
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Except it doesn't because it takes 2 survivors and pretty good coordination to do so, again you might as well just walk out of there with an injure like you would have in the first place. Also it doesn't take the game hostage since their flashlights will run out eventually.
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You're talking like lockers are some type of scarce resource. On maps like MacMillian and Coldwind a lot of tiles spawn with double lockers, and main buildings usually have them as well. It's also not rare for gens to spawn next to those double lockers.
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It really doesn't. My MMR is likely pretty intermediate and I've had a 3man SWF use this to basically take the game hostage when only 2 players remained. Flashlights can last a pretty long time with the right addons, and it doesn't take much to blind when it's a 100% guarantee.
I'm quite surprised that this is a hill you are choosing to die on. To my mind, this is about on par with an infinite. Sure, you can sometimes mindgame it and one vault will eventually get blocked, but that doesn't mean it's healthy.
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I think that's the best solution but I doubt it would be implemented successfully, especially with consideration to future maps. So the easiest thing to do is just prevent flash blinds altogether when in a locker animation.
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and you're talking like double lockers where theres an angle able to save from is more common than a pallet on the game. The only ones are long wall short walls on MacMillan and I think Coldwind
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I mean I guess I'm just not dumb enough to fall for these repeatedly, my apologies I'll let them do it to me next time and I'll think about venting my frustrations with a forum post
seems to be what every one is doing anyway, complain instead of learning how to deal with it.
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MacMillian + Coldiwnd are 10 out of 37 maps in the game, so more than 25% of all maps. Also I know for sure Dead Dawg has 3 spots for double locker angles.
Edit: Chapel has one as well.
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They suck, but I doubt they will ever go away. I do not even bring flashlights in my games, but I do happen to lurk on Twitch sometimes and witness the horror that those games are. 2-3 players with flashlights, 2 lockers and built to last are awful.
Whoever works on maps should stop designing them to have 2 lockers next to each other to allow counter play, like injuring and chasing off whoever wants to pull it off.
Edit: Worded it poorly. They suck only in the case of a double locker situation.
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It’s not common because it requires the perfect set up for it.
Also, it encourages more interaction between killers and survivors.
I’ve faked the grab and went for the person with the flashlight trying to save, and to me that is a lot of pressure value because they aren’t on gens.
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I don’t think locker saves themselves are a problem, however, 2 survivors in adjacent lockers who both have flashlights is stupid and shouldn’t exist. If there’s just one locker and someone else nearby, you can try to bait them and get a hit, but in the double locker scenario there is nothing you can do that doesn’t rely on the survivors making a mistake.
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There is no way to 'deal with it'. If a duo wants to stall the game out doing this, they can do so.
What would be the harm in changing these locker spawns?
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It’s no different from a leatherface camping hooks, you just do gens, take the 3 or 2 man out and let homie die on hook..Same goes for killer, if you see 2 survivors flying to the double lockers on Macmillans with flashlights you instantly drop chase and patrol gens. That’s 2 less survivors on gens and more time cutting off their resources etc.. Double locker saving/ locker saving in general is an example of a fun accidental exploit/mechanic that rewards both sides if they are experienced enough..
Fact#1 0.60% of survivors currently actually know how to locker save (that’s not even including consistently)
Fact#2 You can’t locker save against Demogoran, Ghostface and Blight.
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This tbh
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Is it really interaction if it's a ten-minute loop of open locker -> blinded -> open locker -> blinded before the game continues as if this never happens?
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Shouldn't be a thing
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Grabs should make you invincible from flashlight saves. You can't even look away because you're locked into an animation. And no it's not the same as Huntress throwing a hatchet at a vaulting survivor, so don't even go there.
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I mean you throw in a specific scenario that doesn't happen back to back like that.
What I mean by interaction is that A) You can choose to chase the person not in the locker. So if they want to hop inside the locker, they will have to get there in time and in the meantime they are not on generators. I.E. they are wasting their time.
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Pretty sure that what causes the complaints that lead to threads like this are less "people hopping in a locker so a friend can opportunely save them" and more "teams that want to hop in lockers and flashlight stun ad nauseum", though.
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This thread could be referring to a few situations and I'm not sure which one it is.
If it's a normal pickup where someone jumps out of a locker and gets the blind, it's a rare and funny play that you can react to once you expect it. If it's a locker grab where you don't properly check your surroundings and someone swoops in for the blind, it's your fault, same as any other pickup where someone was poised to get the blind. If it's a locker grab where it's impossible to chase away the player that will get the flashlight save (certain lockers beneath two-story platforms, double lockers with two flashlight users inside), it's cheap and shouldn't exist.
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There would be no harm in changing these spots
But its like that one pallet spawn on old Gideon you were able to swing over, was it really an issue? or is it just a neat little trick?
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As with everything - it depends on the implications. Honestly, I'd just fix both.
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The spot on Gideon has been fixed with the rework
But you can still swing over some pallets like on Haddonfield and The Chapel
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Yes, there are a handful of risky pallets. There's also a trick that allows you to pass over the 'hole' in the school building in Badham. If these were fixed, that would be okay.
However, these are not things that can be abused to grief by stalling the game out for ages. Thanks to that Tru3 video, I've had 4 different duos do this recently.
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It's bad since two survivors can jump into lockers and save each other and there is nothing the killer can do unless it's Trapper perhaps, and they can keep doing this until batteries runs out.
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then you are busy screwing around with them while the others bang out gens. You don't add pressure or make progress. You get stuck in limbo or let them go.
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Unfair, I had once a match against a 4 man squad, 4 flashlights and something around 20 lockers flashlight save. I was playing chill with a ######### clown, one of the worst killers in the game... I played just one match and closed the game. It´s not fair if you can´t do anything to avoid it. I consider it a bug.
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It's a problem that needs to be addressed calling it for his true name, an exploit, a full 4 man SWF been doing it, and before anything of the "just chase the others", if I chased the others then the ones in the locker would hoop off and the survivor I was chasing would jump in...
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