Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Comms
What is your take on Comms?
I honestly think it ruins the game and takes a lot of the skill out of the game. This is solely my opinion and I am not saying you shouldn't be able to use comms. But it takes all the suspense and all that out of the game when you have someone who is calling out the killers every move or where a totem is. It just seems to break the game and that what I think.
Comments
-
SWF comms essentially doubles the perk capability of a survivor team capable of capitalizing on that information, by mirroring most info perks in the game, making their loadout effectively 32 perks to the killer's 4. Yeah, it sucks, and killers/SoloQ should both be buffed to compensate.
I disagree that it "ruins" anything, or that it takes the skill out of an intrinsically low-skill game, though. Most teams can't or won't manage to capitalize perfectly on that info. I think the steady changes in Cote's mission from creating a stealth horror game to an action objective game have hurt the 'suspense' far more than anything else, and I think BHVR continuing to bill this as a horror game is deceptive advertisement.
Post edited by ElusivePukka on1 -
When I do play survivor I’m the only one who really does call outs where the killers going / doing. Granted there are those teams who will call out killers every move, it’s not every game your going to face that kind of gameplay.
0 -
Solo Q got buffed, look at Small Game! We have a totem counter now!
/s
10 -
On one hand, Comms against a Legion.
On the other, Nurse against some solos.
This whole game needs an overhaul.
6 -
Comms are certainly fun to use with friends when playing the game. They are also not even remotely balanced versus the non-comms survivor experience or any killer. SWF should just go up against bot killers, leaving the solos and killers to be balanced against one another.
2 -
Comms ruin the experience for the killer. It also gives already good players a huge advantage that they don't need. Unfortunately this the reality. People should be able to talk and play with their friends, but with DBD, it comes at the cost of the other sides experience and enjoyment.
5 -
Anything related to swf now is just beating a dead hard horse.
1 -
In many cases I barely notice a swf with comms until I find out afterwards. However, there are some cases when it's way too obvious and can be very challenging.
It's a double-edged sword because on one hand it brings many more players into the game who otherwise may not have played it. In turn, this increases the desireability of the game to future investors and licences who see an opportunity to make money, which then reflects back on the prodict which entices yet more players to it. Also, a fair number of swf really are not the bully squads they are sometimes unfairly made out to be.
On the other hand, it does give an advantage above killers and SoloQ which can be seen as imbalanced and by all accounts creates an unfair advantage. This can cause people to leave the game too out of frustration.
Ultimately, it created a problem and a blessing at the same time. I'm not sure how the game would have developed without it - maybe it would be in a smaller but healthier state? Maybe it would have retained the horror and actually be better? Maybe the lack of swf would have ultimately sunk the game into obscurity. Whatever it may have done, it's here now and the game has to be worked around it. Taking it away now would almost certainly be very destructive for the game.
0 -
Cant take it away because for good or bad it is probably the most fun way to play the game. That being said they have to install some kind of progressive penalty for players swf with more players means more of a penalty. Whether that means nerfing the total perks they can use or cutting out their ability to use add ons, something needs to be done to balance out the inherent advantage of comms. This is for the sake of both sides. If they buff killers to be able to compete with comms the solo q survivors are the ones who are going to suffer.
My solution would be to remove any pre-game chats so players cant link discord info and penalize players who q with friends. If swf players complain that this ruins the experience they weren't enjoying the game to begin with but rather enjoying the sadistic pleasure of pub stomping random killers.
1 -
Their impact is really overstated. Basic comms aren't going to move the needle much against a good killer. Yeah, a team with fully synergized loadouts, a clock system, and an actual callout system is going to be a nightmare, but nobody is loading into a public match and sweating that hard.
4 -
I think it is an advantage but I don't know how to address it without pissing off majority of the fanbase.
I know some of the suggestions were buffing solos then killers but even competent no comms solos are too much for some killers already.
I honestly think things won't change much but killers are getting burned out little by little. Something needs to be done not neccessarily comms wise.
1 -
Swf should've never been more than two players at most. You could have two two-man teams then. Otherwise just grab one more person and play kyf and leave the killer piñata out of it.
0 -
The only good thing about the coms is the salt they let out if they're streaming or in a party chat on Playstation or Xbox lol
0 -
They won't ever penalize or debuff SWF, nor limit perks. They've made it very clear they don't want to punish anyone, and wish players to run whatever they like. So no tournament-level sanctions are coming.
I also see no realistic way of enforcing anything when it comes to comms, especially on the consoles, which together make up the majority of the playerbase. Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way, so Xbox is untouchable. I'm not sure for Sony but I imagine it's similar, can't speak for Discord.
Imo if we actually want our suggestions to be considered, we have to frame them with all that in mind. That only leaves getting solos the tools to make coordination & some kind of communication possible, and then rebalance the killers around that. Exactly how to do all that should be the real debate.
4 -
Correction. They don't want to punish survivors any more. killers don't matter as we can see by them attempting to stop camping.
1 -
Voice comms are cheating, this is a hard fact. I don't care if it's allowed; that's only because the devs have no way to counter voice-cheating without removing Cheat With Friends, which they won't.
This game was made for Survivors to have an information blackout. IE:
'Do I want to risk saving that Meg? She might not save me!"
Or Not knowing who the Killer is, or where the Killer is. Or where the Traps (Trapper, Hag) are.
Not knowing if the Killer is camping (Unless the hooked Survivor brought a perk)
For freaking hell: Survivors lack in-game voice chat and audio emotes EXPLICITLY because they are supposed to be hindered by not knowing if someone will save them, and not being able to communicate with the stranger next to them.
Add Voice comms? 'Freddy is chasing me; go get that gen he just kicked! Oh! He turned around! Run away!'
Or how about certain Killer states removing the TR; that means jack ######### when 1 Survivor can see you and tell his friends you're nearing. Then you can sneak away without leaving scratch marks. Whereas, with NON-CHEATERS; you would not know the Killer was near you until it was too late.
Or how about traps? 1 Survivor sees them, and then entire hive-mind of Cheat With Friends now knows where it is. Same with Totems, which makes Hex perks garbage.
Voice comms are literally cheating. They are using a 3rd party program 'to gain an unfair advantage over other players' or 'gain an advantage the game was not meant to have'.
Voice coms are, by definition, cheating. End of story. No argument can counter this hard fact.
And the fact that the devs ignore how badly they break the game just makes the game worse and worse. What's the point of perks that remove your TR when Cheat With Friends can give play-by-plays? 'Killer is camping me with Insidious! He's off to your right!'
What's the point of Hex perks when Survivors can tell Cheat With Friends where they saw the totem?
What's the point of stealth Killers when 1 Cheat With Friend sees you, so they all know where you are?
Just because the devs gave up trying to balance around voice cheats does not mean they are not cheats.
4 -
Username checks out.
I just want proximity voice chat for both the killer and survivor so It'd be fun. (Imagine sneaking up as myers and going peek a boo hehehe) If survivors aren't talking then you can assume that they are in discord and plan accordingly. It isn't like you can have your voice input on two separate apps, right?
2 -
My take is that they're openly allowed and prohibiting them would be effectively unenforceable when not outright breach of contract (e.g. conosoles).
So, my further take is to give solos a surrogate of comms in the form of chat wheel/pre-made and some basic info and then balance the game around that.
4 -
"Camping" like so many othet terms we've added to DBD lingo is a broad idea and very subjective, and certainly permissible behavior.
A killer during EGC hovering a hook to secure their kill to me is vastly different than facecamping their first down at five gens to go because their proir match went badly. And so many variants in between those examples, like "proxy camping" and so on.
If it didn't suck so bad for the poor slob on the hook in many of those cases we wouldn't even be talking about it. While there are perks to bandaid deal with it somewhat, several killers have effective ways to play around them. SWF on comms aggravate all this because their potential coordination is so much easier to pull off, particularly during EGC.
I admit there's no easy solution here I'm afraid.
0 -
Comms dont make a bad team good all of a sudden, unlike how many people make it out to be.
3 -
Comms are overrated. The main advantage of playing in an SWF is that you filter out the random Survivors who can either be really good or really terrible. If you play as a 4 man SWF, you wont have to deal with the David who hookfarms you for his WGLF-Stacks or the Meghead who throws Shack Pallet at 5 Gens when getting hit through it.
This is the advantage, not comms. E.g. I play with one friend as a 2 man SWF, and we are on Comms. But we mostly talk about random stuff. Sure, we talk about the game aka who is the Killer, if they have Corrupt Intervention or Ruin, but the impact is pretty low. However, we both have at least one person to count on. Sometimes a friend of his joins, but without Voice Chat. And we can rely on him, because he is a good player, which means, one less bad player in our games. And we dont need Comms.
Comms might be a thing in tournament plays, when the team is well-coordinated and has the Map divided into Tiles to give super-precise directions. But for regular SWFs, not really.
1 -
If you faced a team of solos with lots of experience it would be similar. SWF many times will give each other bad info, especially if you switch targets often. SWF tends to mess around until the killer starts winning and then the callouts get more intense.
I just want an indication of how many were SWF at the end of the match and some bonus bp for hosting their party.
1 -
They've confirmed multiple times that comms aren't cheating.
4 -
then why dont we have an in game voice comms system? Prove to the community that what youre saying is 100% honest and NOT just an excuse to ignore the issue. Or, could you possibly address the second part of his point? being that the game is based around information blackout on the survivors end? if thats not the case, how do you explain various information perks being in the game at all? Every time I see a response from mods and devs about this, its always ignoring any valid arguments being made and just a simple "nah its not cheating. go use our discord" which really comes across as ignoring the communitys concerns.
0 -
The reason they’ve given for not having ingame voice chat on PC is that free solid third party chat systems already exist and are widely used so they don’t feel the need to spend development resources on including their own system in game. Also they don’t want to introduce localized proximity chat to the game because they don’t want players to feel obliged to use voice chat or hear other players if they don’t like it or it ruins the atmosphere.
1 -
ok, so basically they are too lazy to create their own system? a system that could EASILY include MUTE options to avoid the problem you stated? and also, again, the VALID POINT of the game being BUILT on information blackout is being IGNORED. Can you give any solid reasoning or arguments about that point? why do various perks exist if comms absolutely counter them to a point of non existence? what is the reasoning behind that? can you explain it at all, or is it just general incompetency? Im not trying to be aggressive with that question, its a genuine question.
0 -
I mean just imagine trying to play CSGO but you dont have any in game comms. and the devs just say "######### you, go use discord if you want comms!" or any team based game at all for that matter. would you honestly defend those devs? really?
0 -
And of course you seem to forget the fact that not everyone speaks the same language - hence using communication apps is a preference. Even in Europe there's so many different languages spoken and English is not the main language at all, despite us connecting to the same server.
The game is designed to be played with friends as well as solo - that's the option, hence there's perks in the game that helps solo survivors.
2 -
while im at it, hey man. why does any car manufacturer exist? like we already have buses and public transport right? why do we need new systems created for travel when we already have some?
why do we have in home washers and dryers when we have public laundromats? right? thats the same logic youre giving me. theres already an established way to wash clothes, why would anyone need them in home? thats just a waste of time and resources, right?
why tf does anyone even have lightbulbs??? Bro we already have the sun, thats like the biggest light source ever and nobody even needs to do anything to use it, so why do we bother making other light sources, right?
same logic youre giving me. it doesnt make sense when you actually break it down and think about it.
you can simp for the devs all you want, and I get it because I love this game too, but at a certain point we as a community are allowing this bullshit to happen to us. we are all dealing with stockholm syndrome without even realizing it
0 -
so its ok for the killers perks to be dicked over by comms, simply because the survivors can play SWF? that makes it ok? an entire killers POWER, the thing that makes that killer, THAT KILLER. can be absolutely shut down by comms, but thats ok because the game is meant to be played with friends OR solo? Thats just horrendously illogical. even taking out the perks that help solo survs, what about the perks on killer side that are just made to be essentially non existent because of comms? I mean as I stated before, im not trying to come across as aggressive, but your statement of "that's the option, hence there's perks in the game that helps solo survivors" really SCREAMS "we dont care about the killers experience in the game as long as the survivors can play how they want to"
3 -
Lol, wow dude you’re really worked up over them not having ingame voice chat on PC, especially considering you think it shouldn’t even be in the game in the first place! 😄
Those analogies are ludicrous, by the way. Car Manufacturers exist because people like to buy cars, their existence doesn’t prevent Busses from existing though or vice versa. If Busses were hyper-popular then yes, you’d see a ton less cars being bought and made because why invest time and money making something that people don’t buy?
Same with DbD adding voice chat ingame. Yeah that can add it but it takes time and resources, so you have to balance that against the payoff. Would adding ingame chat on PC increase sales of DbD enough to justify the expense? If the answer is No then it would be a bad investment. And the existence of popular third party solutions in that space skews the answer to the No side.
Also, I don’t play on console so someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but DbD on console does support the consoles’ voice chat systems as far as I know. It’s not like Behaviour tries to block voice chat on consoles.
1 -
ok, I can admit my analogies were maybe a little over the top but that doesnt mean the concept isnt correct.
and the fact that youre justifying not having comms as a non profitable thing is.. damn. Like yeah, I get it, bhvr is a company that needs to make money and thats fair, but if thats the ONLY driving force for them then the game will fall apart. Do you really want bhvr to be the next EA? or do you want them to care about their game and craft it into an amazing piece of a gaming art that people will enjoy for years more? or look back on it in 20 years and think "man, that game was so amazing. Im sad it fell off because the devs cared so much and put so much into it" which if they decide to only go down the financial route, will not happen
0 -
I’m confused, are you saying you want Behaviour to add in ingame voice chat because you think it would improve the game and help sales, or are you saying you think voice chat creates serious imbalances and drives people away from the game?
1 -
im saying that if the devs claim that voice comms are NOT cheating, they should absolutely add in an IN GAME voice comms system. until then, anything they can (and HAVE SAID IN THE PAST) is blatantly ignoring valid points and arguments brought up by the community.
I dont want voice comms at all, UNLESS balance changes happen to various perks and killers powers (traps, stealth killers, information perks, etc) what those changes could be though, i dont know and dont have any suggestions. im not a game dev. its not my job to fix and balance another companys game.
Voice comms COULD be absolutely ok to have in the game, and I would be ALL FOR IT, but changes need to be made for that. Until then, they are not ok.
0 -
On Xbox the party chat is quite easy to use, and isn't dependent on what game is being played. Often I'm in one where some are playing DBD and some are on Twitch or Destiny 2 or whatever.
The devs couldn't know who is on comms or not while playing, unless they stream-snipe! ;)
2 -
To me it's cheating without actually cheating. You get so much info with 0 negatives.
1 -
So it's ok for survivors to go from having 16 perks to 32 perks against the killers 4 especially vs a killer like trapper who's whole power gets cancelled by comms?
Not mad just genuinely curious what your opinion is on this
0 -
-Replace: Kindred, Bond, Empathie, maps...
-Boost: Boons, aura perk, Head on, Adrenaline, DS, sabo save, bodyblock save, palet save, flashlight save...
-Counter: Totems, Trapper, Hag, GF, Pig, Wraith and any terror radius perk or addon.
-Cost: nothing, zéro, nada, nichts !
+BONUS: Because of comms we can't even dream of a killer who disguise as survivor...
So yeah, it's not a big deal.
1 -
Ok, so you don’t want voice comms because they’re too difficult to balance around. But you also don’t believe Behaviour when they give the reasons for why they don’t add them to the game, even though you think the existence of voice comms creates imbalances that negatively impact the game. And all because you think PC players who want to play multiplayer games with friends don’t already have Discord, etc.
… 😕
1 -
a Microphone with other people talking to you does not make you a god and unbeatable
3 -
I think a better way to put it is that comms create an imbalance between solo survivors and swfs (almost all of whom use comms). It’s not cheating at all since the devs are totally ok with comms and even use it themselves. But it is a balance issue they should be aware of, and presumably are since occasionally they do tweak something because of comms such as the revamp they did for Object of Obsession because it was truly broken on comms.
1 -
Honestly; if voice comms are not a game-changer, as the devs have stated in the past. And if they encourage using voice comms; They should add always-on proximity voice in DBD.
It's, literally, the only way to balance the game for voice communication. If Survivors are talking to each-other; the Killer can hear them if he's nearby. Even if they use discord to get around the 'proximity' effect.
Heck, at that point, they can start punishing people for using Discord, as the Killer can report them if he hears a Survivor say 'He's heading your way' to a teammate clearly across the map (and thus too far away to hear his friend in-game).
Heck, if the devs really wanted to un-break how utterly broken voice chat is; they could probably make a deal with Discord, so running both at the same time still only allows a person to be heard locally in-game.
And, of course, add mute functions. So if someone's being a screamer, breathing heavily into their mic, or blaring music; they can be muted. And them doing that just makes them easier for the Killer to find.
Of course, I fully expect Survivors to claim this is not needed, as it completely balances voice-chat, which is the single largest, broken thing they have in the game. And they will do whatever they can to never give up this utterly game-breaking advantage.
0 -
Me, receiving abuse for not talking in-game because of crippling social anxiety and being punished for using Discord to talk to my friends instead:
3 -
I have social anxiety, too; I can't run pubs in FF14. Only groups with friends. I also, literally, cannot go outside without having a panic attack, from a combo of social anxiety I've had since I was a kid and PTSD from 6 years of physical/mental abuse. So I feel your pain.
But I also feel that that would be our choice to not use voice chat in-game, were it an option. It would also be our choice to talk to other people while knowingly booting up a game that would have always-on voice chat.
It's basically the only way to un-break voice comms. Voice gives Survivors too much information, and the only way to counter it is to make talking a threat. Which is supposed to be the point of of DBD; You make noise, and the Killer may find you.
0 -
She's arguing that SWF should be baseline gameplay instead of solo. Obvious survivor main is obvious.
0 -
But that's what I'm asking if swf is the baseline then does that mean they think it's fair that with comms survivors go from having 16 perks to 32
That is my question, is that fair?
0 -
My dude, you are not listening.
I am ok with voice comms. IF they are fitting to the game. Currently, they are not fitting to the game for all the reasons ive given you. If those reasons were to be changed, fixed, balanced. whatever. then Voice comms would be fine and fitting for the game.
If you cant understand that, thats ok. But im gonna go ahead and stop replying to you after this because I cant change the mind of someone who refuses to see past their initial judgement of something, regardless of how much proof they are given to the opposite. have a great day.
0 -
Again, I'm not sure what initial judgement you think I have here? I didn't really state my position, but
- I agree that voice comms create a balance issue between solo and swf survivors. That doesn't make them "cheating" or that the devs aren't ok with having them in the game. It just means there's a balance issue in the game but the benefits of hypothetically allowing people to talk to their friends while they play outweigh the balance issue downside.
- Not wanting to spend business resources on implementing a major feature like voice chat makes total sense if there's already popular third party solutions that do the same thing which mitigate the actual benefit to the game itself. Yeah they could add it ingame if they wanted, but personally I'd just as soon have those development resources spent on other projects, like say implementing game replays or doing balance passes, etc. Getting upset that this is the reason they didn't include it seems odd.
- Half of all games have 2-4 person swfs and virtually all of those swfs use comms. They're not going to alienate literally half of the player base who do use comms just to avoid a balance issue, especially where they themselves use comms in their own games.
- It's ironic you think I'm the one who can't see past "their initial judgement of something".
0 -
I don’t think the devs are ever going to say anything regarding killers’ concerns about the imbalance that comms create at high levels in this game. It will continue to be just the canned “comms are fine” replies. I suspect they understand that it’s a problem for killers at high levels, but if they publicly say they’re going to do something about it, it will mean a massive amount of work and changes that will potentially turn off their cash cow which is the SWF player base. It would be a risky move, so their approach now is to just ignore, which will work fine as long as there are enough killers still playing the game.
I don’t have any problem with comms (the game wouldn’t be nearly as fun playing SWF without them), but there has to be some kind of adjustment made at higher levels to help correct the massive imbalance that killers face.
0
