A Survivor Who Now Understands
I've been a survivor main for over 2 years. For background, I tend to average out at Gold each season, prefer the sneaky, Gen Jocky approach and never bring keys or flashlights as I don't really enjoy that playstyle. I play Killer occasionally to mix things up but usually only a few rounds a season. Recently, I completely most of the survivor objectives on the latest tome and thought I would dive back into Killer for a more extended period of time.
Dear god.... Guys, as a low grade Killer, this game is absolutely miserable now. I'm regularly paired up with high grade survivors who are able to coordinate flashlight saves, sabos, body blocks and display their love for the game by rapidly crouching in the killers face. It's truly unfun. More importantly, I now understand why Killers do the things we hate; tunnel, camp hooks and so on. I felt myself drawn to that playstyle just to get some kind of small win out of the misery. I also get why it takes so much longer to get a game as a survivor at night. I know that there are ways for good killers to counter this behavior but the road to getting there is pretty miserable and it's much easier to just switch back to survivor and wait to have fun.
To be clear, I'm not expecting 4Ks every time nor am I looking for a power fantasy while playing Killer. But when you put in a couple solid minutes into chasing someone, allowing the other 3 survivors to do gens, that should give you some progress. The risky flashlight save or bold sabo in a single queue game creates truly memorable moments but 4 survivor friends working together to simultaneously body block, blind and sabo, resetting all the work you've just put in might have those friends cackling with delight but is enough to make any Killer baby just stop playing.
In the meantime, I'm trying to unlock perks that can counter the worst of it so I can have fun while I get better but is this really the game we want to be playing? I cannot believe I'm saying this but I think Behavior should remove flashlights as a test like they have for other mechanics in the past and see what happens. I know there are many who love this playstyle but I have a feeling that removing them or at least removing some of the more potent add-ons will bring the game much closer to where it is intended. Baby Killers will feel less bullied and Survivors who prefer this style of play will still have options in Perks and Firecrackers.
Comments
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great more killer propaganda
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A little hard to feel for you when you don't specify what killer you have or what teachable you have/need.
At worst I assume you barely leveled your killer which would give you a hard time and at "best" the strong teachable you unlock just didn't appear yet.
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I think an issue is that high mmr killers are quitting because every game is against swf sweat squads. The match making has to give those squads to someone so lower mmr killers get them since there aren't enough high mmr killers. I play both sides and I've noticed that our squad is getting killers way below our skill more and more.
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It's the truth. Why don't you drop survivor for a month and play killer every day. Your mmr will go up and the matches will be unwinnable trash against 4 man OP SWF.
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People talking about killer propaganda, but the huge queue times should ring some bells.
Higher mmr killers stop playing due to tryhard swfs, low mmr or newbie killers cant learn to play killer, or do not proceed playing killer, because they get stomped by high mmr swf survs, which is not fun either of course. Find the issue(s)...
Mmr and swf, are the biggest problems right now. In my opinion swfs should get a handicap since they get a huge advantage. E.g each additional friend joining gives you a handicap of 5% to repair speed or something comparable
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"Killer propaganda"... love it, it's something survivors never get accused of.
Same with bad game practices... killers camp, tunnel, blah blah blah. All bad. But survivors will never point the fingers at themselves for bad/unsporting gameplay, because survivors can do no wrong (which includes being unable to cry in unison for killers to be nerfed... leading to the situation we have now)
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Both sides are guilty of this
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Technically yes, but not equally guilty. There are levels.
I often see killers who are conscious about tunnelling and camping (i.e. avoiding it deliberately). I've yet to come across any survivors who even acknowledge faults on their side, let alone play to avoid it.
I often see killers giving hatch and escapes, just for the sake of it. I very rarely see survivors giving the killers any free hooks, even for bbq stacks when everyone's chucked in cakes, etc - not saying it never happens, but it's an exceptionally rare event.
Almost every time a new killer comes out, we see the survivors crying that they're OP somehow... they have no counter-play, blah blah blah. Yet when survivor perks are released that are OP and literally have no counter-play (boon totems... grants everyone healing, at double speed, and an indicator so all survivors can see where to go, all in one perk that one survivor can carry, which the killer has to somehow find and divert themselves away to stamp out, for it to only be relit again), then they're quiet. And many will go as far as to say that it's fine... on top of DS, BT, and all the other 2nd chance perks they need.
The two sides are not the same.
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Again... this goes both ways...
Reason why you dont see Survivors giving away free kills is because that is a large portion of their BP, 5000 to be exact.
This happens with killers as well, remember Power Struggle? Buffed Lucky Break? Reworked Built to Last? Boon: Exponential? Killer mains immediately start typing away without any proper play testing.
Also you had some people say that old Undying was fine, when it clearly wasnt. Not to say Boons are fine, they definitely need tweaking.
So yes, both sides are the same. Theyre both equally as guilty
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sorry i'm already top mmr for survivor and plan to keep it that way!💋
every 4 man swf isnt op yall just are unable to capitalize off mistakes they make & can't take an occasional 1-2k match and thats YOUR problem. for every 1 4-man SWF there are 9 other lobbies with its fair share of incompetent survivors
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i literally don't get why ppl are saying that survivor queues are longer?? my queue times now (solo/1-2 man swf AND 4 man swf) have been faster than they were earlier this year.. there are millions of active players in this game from all levels of mmr and locations it is ridiculous to assume everyone has flop queue times
the only issue i see with swfs are boon totems... if u want that x% repair speed decrease then run pentimento and hope the survivors are bot enough to cleanse every totem
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Shows how entitled you are😅
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not entitlement when i know i'm right but thank u
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Well lets see, you did state that this is more killer propaganda which means you obv dont care for the other side of the game. Then, when someone said "why dont you try killer" you gave a very snarky reply which just shows that your an entitled survivor😅
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I love how some of the counter points are "What killer are you playing" "What are your perks" thus missing the point of the argument. For a game to work there has to be variety lest the game get repetitive and boring. It goes to show if you are not running a top tier killer and great perks to boot you have no chance at getting a win let alone getting a decent game. To make matters worse is the fact that new players dont have the luxury of meta perks as the best perks are locked between several killers that you have to level up to 30+ to unlock the teachable variations. New players are at an inherent disadvantage to begin with and this is only exacerbated by going against a fully kitted team of four players. With the current boon meta if you dont have any perks that regress gens you have very little chance of protecting gens. With the threat of boons its not enough to hit a survivor once, you have to commit to a down and while thats happening gens are popping like crazy.
If your argument is "Play better killers" youre admitting that there is a problem with balancing. Im sure killers are tired of playing the same killers and likewise im sure survivors are tired of going against blights and nurses. Killers like Clown and Trapper are extremely frustrating to play because they literally under powered to the point of absurdity. Play against any competent squad with those killers and you will more often than not watch the match slowly fall out of contention because you do not have enough in your toolbox to compete with survs.
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if you took the time to look through my other posts i do sympathize w killers ONLY with boon totems, most other complaints killers have are ridiculous
i don't play killer bc i don't want to, i am very good at survivor so there is no need for me to play it
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Hmmm kinda hard to believe you when you legit just belittled this entire post and missed the point completely by again saying that this is more killer propaganda.
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...killer propaganda?
I'm not sure you know what that word means.
Someone sharing an opinion about the game you disagree with does not make it propaganda.
Boons. Maps. Fake hits via dead hard. Bugs. More bugs. Unjustified nerfs to already mediocre killers. BM survivors.
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I don't think that many were that worried about Expo, it was more Overcome (which I maintain that if DH got nerfed, you'd see a lot in SWFs).
Old Undying was fine. The issue was Ruin.
Aside from Ruin and maybe Devour, which other hexes were even a mild concern with Undying?
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...because it was a post made by someone with a literal few hour old account that repeated the same exact things hundreds of other killers say here
whoever made this post is a pick-me survivor
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Having zero to little hours on a forum shouldnt and doesnt have an effect on this post. They could literally be top 10 killer or survivor in the world and just made an account for this forum to express their opinion after playing the game for a long time.
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1 post on the account. Seems legit.
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all we need is more people complaining about killer.. regardless of whoever they are, they are a pick-me survivor that just posted here so killers can have their egos fed
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All we need is for more survivors to belittle killer mains and bully them into non existence so your egos can be filled to the brim and make you feel good.
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i literally don't bully killer mains bye
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Why's SWF being the center of discussion here? Have you ever played solo Q?
SWF>>Killers>>>>>Solo Q is the general consensus and yet you complain about being matched up against what, 4~5% of the entire survivor playerbase?
You can't seriously want a "fair" asymmetrical game when there's Discord available for everyone. If you don't like playing asymmetrical games, then go play something else.
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killers will play against ONE top mmr swf and assume the entire player base is that and want all survivors nerfed to the ground. if killers played solo queue (especially prior to mmr), they would know how much of a trainwreck those games are and that it's basically u versus 4 killers
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Eh. I've been up against some genuinely great players outside of SWFs.
What is annoying is how often I feel like I lost a game not because I made any serious mistakes, but because I chose the wrong killer/perks for the map I was sent to. Haddonfield on Billy versus Haddonfield on Nurse is almost like a different game.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
Certainly the onus is on the people being nasty to stop being nasty, not the people being annoyed by them?
There isn't much you can do versus a coordinated squad who decide to stall the game out endlessly.
Post edited by StarLost on4 -
And so have I.
But that doesn't mean that the majority of the Solo Q players play like headless chickens and yet, they make up 80% of the playerbase.
I can name exceptions any time, but that doesn't change the general perception and opinions of killers and survivors in the current state. SWF beats killers and killers destroy solo q survivors. Simple as that, but do you see me crying a river?
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I don't see anyone crying a river. I see people giving feedback about a videogame on a forum specifically for this purpose.
I'd say that maybe 75% of the solos I face give me a pretty decent challenge.
The big issue, to my mind, is SBMM. A lot of my 'wat' games are either against people far less experienced than myself or far more experienced than myself.
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But if there is a 3-SWF and I'm the poor solo they don't care about (as it's usually the case for me), why should I be punished? Or does the penalty is only on them?
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There were definitely complaints about Exponential, as well as Overcome.
Old Undying was powerful with Ruin and pretty much only Ruin, just like how people say Boons are strong but really they only mean CoH, Shadow Step and Exponential are fine
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It should only apply on them. On solo queue not of course.
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To say run pentimento is the exact problem, it is just a bad game design if i am forced to use a perk only to make sure that the swf dont finish the game in 5 minutes, while one of them who is an expert in loops is keeping me busy.
It is more than obvious you are such a player since you are arguing with anybody who is critisizing swf.
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This is not really the case, i play more survivor than killer, and ONLY soloQ since I don't have any friends playing this game. And in 60% of the games I manage to escape. But anybody telling me that swf should not be treated in a different way just is rather one of these himself enjoying to stomp killers, or doesn't know a lot of the game. For some reason the killer complains are always the same same, high mmr is always sweat swf.
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My queue times as survivor are instant during the day, and killer are instant at night. What bell is ringing for me?
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Yes Op, if you mostly play survivor and now are trying to play killer, since you don't have killer experience it will be harder for you.
People don't start a new role as gods. I'm afraid.
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Aka"the state of the game right now"
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If the high mmr squads do get matched vs low mmr killers this could make even more killers quit. I imagine that a person who just started playing killer would be very likely to quit if they get bodied most of the time.
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When your average queue time becomes 10 minutes then it'll be your problem, lol. 🤡
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This thread really comes down to,
"I tried to change roles and I sucked, therefore the other side has it so bad."
The truth is, killer takes time to get good. If your time as killer is limited, well so is your opinion.
Many of us that have played long term, know the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Both sides have complaints, but both side exaggerate.
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Just an aside on one comment from the original post
But when you put in a couple solid minutes into chasing someone, allowing the other 3 survivors to do gens, that should give you some progress.
One caution for newer killers is you shouldn’t overcommit to chasing just one survivor. You really shouldn’t be in a position where you’re chasing one survivor “for a couple of minutes”. Because if that happens, like it says above, you still have three other survivors doing gens and you’ll lose the match even if you eventually down that runner.
If you chase someone you should be prepared to break chase and switch back to the gens if it becomes clear you’re not going to get a hit or down in a reasonable amount of time. A rule of thumb I use is, after I force a pallet drop and it looks like I need to break the pallet rather than game it, I’ll consider breaking off after the pallet breaks to go chase other people off the gens. Worst case the survivor I chased gets on a gen themselves while I do this, but on the other hand they may go hide for a bit or try and follow me in hopes I keep chasing them or go chest or totem shopping or who knows what? But meanwhile I’m definitely pressuring a different survivor off the gens and hopefully even catching them a little out of position or getting a survivor who isn’t as good at evading me. Switching off like that helps steer your chases toward the weaker runners which in the long run is what you want to do (down the weak links quickly to help you exert pressure on the stronger runners as the weaker survivors need to be rescued or die).
Of course as a new killer he average survivors are probably all better at loops than you are, but hopefully if you learn to know when to consider switching targets it will be a good habit to have once you get in the groove of it.
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Maybe there should be some type of formula that adjust gen speeds, survivor movement speeds and killer movement speeds depending on the MMR difference, to level the playing field. Especially if there are differences in MMR between survivors and between survivors and killers.
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I prefer killer but when I play a game or two before I sleep I sure as hell don't want the sweat fest of playing killer matches so I end up survivor. Having said that people talk about killers getting bullied...until it gets to the horrific level of Friday the 13th bullying the killers have it pretty good. Now that was a crapfest.
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So the issue would be that the matchmaking doesnt pair you with players on your skill level and NOT that playing killer is miserable (cause thats not true).
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I genuinely believe that people that think playing killer isn't miserable haven't played enough killer
Play 100 games of killer and record the kills and escape rate
Then play 100 games of solo survivor and record your deaths and escape rates
Some people would be shocked at the numbers you come up with
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I maintain that Overcome is very, very strong - possibly overpowered. The issue is that it competes with Dead Hard (which is even stronger) and SB (which a lot of people are very comfortable with). If DH got nerfed, you'd see it a lot more in SWFs.
And yes - you agree with me. The issue was Ruin, and if Ruin was too strong it should have been adjusted. Nerfing Undying instead was a nerf to all hex play.
It can be both.
The core issue with killer is that so much of your fun is outside of your control. It depends heavily on the map you get and what survivors do.
My current bugbear is duos abusing dual lockers and flashlights to stall a game out for ages (thanks to a recent video that went semi viral, I'm seeing this nonsense all too frequently) or maps with wonky hook spawns where one sabo can make an entire region of the map unhookable (Eyrie is bad for this).
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So what should that prove? People like you would just tell me that the survivors were bad, i was lucky with maps or whatever excuse they can think off. I played Trapper the last years and my games were mostly wins. Does this mean Trapper is OP? Does this mean survivors are bad? I can tell you that on a casual level there is no issue playing killer at all. And dont tell me about high MMR or Deathsquads. Thats just some edgecases 99% of the playerbase never ever encounters.
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You did admit you are a newer killer so I think your experience is very normal. It was because you was unfairly matched with higher rank survivors.
What should maybe happen is to entice more killers to play at high ranks. The survivors waiting in queue for a long time causes the server to throw the first killer that comes along.
Perhaps, killers need some more reward for playing against high rank SWF.
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