I wonder why no one is playing killer? (Small rant, please be sympathetic to the other side)
I'm a killer main, and I generally enjoy the role, however, I just played a match against a TTV that made me beyond frustrated that I immediately switched to survivor after only one match.
For context, this is a TTV in a 4-man SWF, I entered their chat, said my pleasantries and proceeded to load into the match. I'm Demogorgon, and we loaded into Haddonfield. So I already know that I'm not going to have a pleasant experience. For the entirety of the game, the survivors were very efficient, splitting up, doing gens, holding W incredibly early (which on Haddonfield.. bruh), body blocking for each other, using COH. Fine, all of these things can be frustrating for me as the killer, but the survivors should do these things, it helps them survive, naturally.
However, because of the nature of the map and how the survivors are playing, along with the fact that I'm Demogorgon with trash perks (Spies from the shadows, jolt, bitter murmur, BBQ) against their meta perks, I can't win by playing ''fair and nice'' as they put it. It's taking too long to down people because they're holding W on a survivor-sided map, so to apply pressure, I decide to camp hooks more and patrol. By doing this, I squeezed a 3K out, and yes, it wasn't interesting and I could tell it wasn't fun for them, but I did it anyway, because I wasn't going to allow myself to have 2-3 chases with zero kills by the time all the generators are done.
Load into the post-game chat, of course, everyone is salty, upset, toxic, and telling me that I face camped every hook and that I shouldn't have bothered to ''GL & HF'' in their stream if I was going to do that. I explained my position, got practically ignored with my reasoning and then told that I shouldn't face camp because X Y Z reason that wasn't even valid in a debate and that if I can't win without camping, that I should just accept my lose.
It's the sense of entitlement and double standards that makes me hate playing killer. Survivors expect killers to not play at their most efficient when they do so themselves, and that the killer merely exists for their pleasure and enjoyment. Forget about the killers enjoyment right? Let's bring COH, Haddonfield, Hold W extra early, meta perks, 4-man SWF with comms and then expect the killer to accept the bullying and loss.
Honestly, just have more sympathy for killers (and for the other side in general).
Comments
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They won't (have sympathy). On this forum you will generally get very binary responses. It is what it is.
What you need to remember is that the other team does not get to dictate how you will play. Obey the TOS, and abuse everything else that you can so that the entity hauls their meatsacks into the sky as you watch from a beautiful, bloodied hill.
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It's actually the reason I stopped to play Killer, while I've just started to learn. I was playing Demo as well, and mock me, but I had no idea how the portals worked. It was the third time I've been playing Demo and I never got any kill with him. So, I didn't expect my MMR being high.
But I've got a very strong SWF who stopped to do generators when they noticed how bad I was. They kept me "hostage" for a dozen of minutes in The Game. At least, I've eventually discovered how to use my portals. I didn't know I had to look to other portals to choose which one to travel to.
I'm sorry you had a bad match...
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So you chose to not play nice (meaning the boring way) by Camping and expected them to what? Cheer you on? I don't get it.
Look. I get why you did what you had to do but they don't owe you anything. Yes, not even sympathy. You yourself just told us how you were already prepped to lose because of the perks you were running so much that you had to rely on the playstyles you chose. So it shouldn't come as a surprise if others don't enjoy those playstyles.
I am not going to say "Accept your loss" but understand that you shouldn't also expect people to not be bored by that playstyle. Like, at that point just take your win and move on. Because it seems as if you aren't satisfied even after you beat them.
They do not owe you their satisfaction.
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Most Killer players either completely stopped playing Killer, switched to Survivor or stopped playing altogether. Why? Because, with the introductions of SBMM, Boons, unnecessary nerfs, bad map balance etc., games stopped being fun.
Also, why do people bully Demogorgon so much?
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So why being salty and residing to salty gameplay instead of taking your loss? there are so many people that cant take a loss, its incredible.
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Just remind yourself it's not your place -as a solo queueing killer- to satisfy the needs of the 4 other players you did not queue with.
Long story short: Let them be mad. Play how you want.
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YEs, you camped them and they should have sympathize for you because you deserved the 4k
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I mean this in the most sincere way but I have never laughed harder at anything else in my life than asking people to be sympathetic on this forum
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If they try to win, we can try to win. What's wrong about that?
He is not really angry about how they played, just their response.
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I play more killer than survivor these days. My main issue is how rampant hacking has gotten.
I dont mind losing to better players, etc. Its that I can no longer tell clearly who is a better player and who is using subtle hacks.
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What can survs can do to get 4 escapes if you have 8 hooks and no gens done yet? But killers can facecamp to get at least 2 kills. And you want survs to thank you because you can facecamp them?
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If you wanna play tough, then act tough. I cant stand when people on either side go all out and then cant handle a counter punch.
Its human nature to apply different rules than to yourself, so all we can do is not let it bother us.
Put up a Strode Key, and you'll be decorating my Christmas Tree. That's only fair. When this happens when I play survivor, I get ready for the worst and the only person I blame for the match is the BL user lol
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Most survivors are bad at other games, they can't play games like Counter Strike. Check their profiles most of them have anime dating games, board games, hello kitty, farmville etc. A lot of them are horror movie fans who barely play games.
Since DBD is heavily survivor sided, and survivor takes basically no skill to play, it gives them a sense of entitlement. This is the first game they've played where they win all the time. If you beat them, despite the deck being stacked against you, you aren't playing "fair".
It's been this way for years and it's not gonna change, most have never played killer because it's too hard for them, so they have no idea what's necessary to win games sometimes.
Take comfort in knowing getting a 3K on Haddonfield vs SWF is harder than anything a survivor has to do.
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Turn off post game chat and play your game in your style. Problem solved. Don't expect pats on your back.
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I had some interesting matches couple days ago. Was playing late at night so I got the same three man SWF three games in a row.
I was playing the Artist. My build is BBQ, Pain Resonance, Pop, and Franklins. Mind yall I run Franklins on Artist because if you’ve played her a bit, she massively struggles with flashlights. Not blinds, but burning the crows.
First game I got a 1k. Second a 0k. Stole all their items. Teabagged in exit gate? Got your medkit.
The third game. Them again. Let’s go. I won every chase. Multiple cross maps snipes. One player DC’d only halfway through the match after getting downed at a distance. Other two didn’t have a chance after that. Gens never moved forward and I got their items a third time in a row.
That DC tells me that even though they had good matches before, I was putting a lot of pressure on them. They were winning. And they broke first. Didn’t see them after that lol.
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Just to clarify, did they bring Haddonfield, or did they just get Haddonfield?
If they just got Haddonfield then thats whatever, also I'm not sure why they are playing that comp style as a streamer (running extremely early, playing intensely safe) since that stuff does not make for really entertaining gameplay unless I'm missing something?
But if we are comparing apples to apples, you did the killer version of playing comp style. Strong patrol, proxy camping.
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Killer is always wrong. Play to win by tunneling and camping when needed, you are a terrible person. Play nice by giving free saves, never tunneling and not using slowdown perks, enjoy the tbags, ggez and the ggs the survivors only give when they escape. When playing killer you have to just not care about what the survivors want, or say. That team was a 4 man SWF using meta perks and on and on and they still get mad that you played to win, just like they did, because they probably only play survivor so they have ZERO empathy for the killer role.
Try not to let people that don't understand what you need to do to win as killer against survivors that are playing to win get to you. The game is so one sided when everyone knows how to play to win in a trial but most people refuse to accept it. You have to camp and tunnel at times, or you just throw the game.
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They shouldn't have the mindset that the Killer owes them something and must play a certain way.
Even when I get camped or tunneled, even though it isn't fun, I understand the necessity.
It just makes me argue even harder for unfun (if absolutely necessary) mechanics to be removed and reworked into something more fun and healthy
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There does need to be more sportsmanlike and empathic actions in gaming in general, but especially here.
One match I had a few days ago was against a Spirit. I got heavily tunnelled by Spirit after being unhooked with 1 gen to go, and I very nearly made it, even with the 2 remaining survivors trying to fend her off, but she got me about 20m from the exit , and then chased the other 2 off. In fairness, she played well so I gave her a "ggwp" and said there were some fun chases. She replied in kind and apologised for the tunnel, and I replied that was actually the only sensible thing she could do, and honestly at that point I may well have done the same, considering the circumstances.
People need to understand that in some cases there is no other play, and the only way to do that is for people to play both sides more. If someone plays only one side, it's not possible to understand the other.
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SWF needs to have bot killers, not human players. Leave human killers and solo survivors to be balanced against one another and let SWF go against a bot that directly scales with the team's average MMR.
Bots can't come soon enough.
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There is no double standard for the OP.
The survivors went all out first and the killer reacted in kind.
The survivors doing it first THEN complaining that they got the logical reaction out of the killer is a double standard.
Don't go all out if you don't want the other side to react in kind and that goes for everyone.
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The portals are so inconsistent
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Bots will come eventually but not to eliminate SWFs. You can't promote a game by telling people they can't play with their friends because if they do all they get are bots, especially when the 4v1 asymmetrical genre is getting new faces out there
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Right. Been a lot of sketchy s*** lately like one dead, one on hook, one in chase, but 2 gens pop simultaneously
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It's a little bit awkward, IMO, to introduce yourself in someone's TTV chat and then play super aggressively, but I also can't tell from the description whether they were playing aggressively first.
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I don’t understand the necessity because I myself don’t do it to force a win. Also who am I to tell someone what their mindset should be? Boring is boring.
So, yes when I see someone else do it the first words in my head are “I guess they had to do what they did” but don’t expect me to celebrate with you. Because I do think Camping is broken because of this.
As I said before take the points and go. I don’t owe you a GG or a celebration for your victory because you chose the (IMO) boring cheesy way.
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The Survivors were doing the exact same thing.
Why does the Killer owe them a game without camping?
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You can play with your friends. But your challenge is the computer. It becomes like Left 4 Dead or Back 4 Blood.
It's literally impossible to fix the advantages SWF have over solo queue without making a different queue. And having bot killers for SWF means they can tweak numbers up and down super easily to make every game a fun challenge. No more tunneling. No more camping. No more slugging. Have bots for all the killers and you get a wider experience than Nurse/Blight/Huntress/Spirit at high MMR. And best of all: instant queues. It's literally the solution to every complaint that survivors have.
The only thing that bot games take away from SWF is that the players are not stomping on other human players. So, if the only reason you play DbD is the chance to ruin another person's day, I guess bots would kill the game experience for you. But surely not ALL SWF groups are made just to easily stomp other players, right? It's about playing with your friends and having a chill time, right?
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By what? Expressing that Camping is boring?
Newsflash. Most people think it is.
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No, by using a "cheesy boring tactic."
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Come again? What is the cheesy boring tactic they did?
Have the game lottery pick Haddonfield? Cuz there is nothing more I hate than when a killer gives up on spawn.
I know you are trying to come to their defense, but you weren't there and I am only going by the anecdotal facts they are giving us.
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So you, the company trying to sell a product that's supposed to be a 4v1 asymmetrical multiplayer game will just decide that from now on everyone who plays with friends will have to do this specific thing and won't be allowed to vs other players. How does it look?
This is a game to us the player base, but it's business to the developers, you can't just expect a solution that will be detrimental to their economic interests. That's not how the market works. Especially now when you have at least a couple of other DbD look-alikes and a potential rival with Bubba's new game next year.
With that same mindset, you could say that anyone that doesn't want to play against SWF could just go play some story mode single-player game. The idea is to try and find the best possible balance, but explicitly segregating a part of the player base is not the way.
And for the last paragraph, yes. Some people do play this game with friends to chill and not to stomp on anyone, same as some killers play to have fun and not to stomp on Solo Qs. Behind these "mains" there are people, and not everyone is out there hating on the other side or trying to stomp on anyone else.
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"the survivors were very efficient, splitting up, doing gens, holding W incredibly early (which on Haddonfield.. bruh), body blocking for each other, using COH."
The OP even says they didn't have a problem with that. They should play to win. They say their issue is that the Survivors imposed a double standard of OP by being upset when OP played to win as well.
Both strategies are unfun and boring. It's always been my personal rule that if I'm trying to win, I can't begrudge the other side for doing the same.
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I am sorry but Camping is not the equivalent of those things. Even holding W at least takes some skill because you have to understand timing and know the map incredibly well. Camping is basically acknowledging they are outpacing you, so you flip the switch to "now I get pressure for free". Because I can guarantee you that if they were playing smarter and stuck to gens like they "claim", the Demo would have lost.
Also even if I were to agree that he is meeting boring with.... Boring. I would never expect anyone to celebrate my boring playstyle. Especially when I've already said that Camping has elements that need to be looked at (and they are) and for a very good reason.
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I play killer at night - like now, because i get instant q times.
But really fun it is not. It is kinda stressful. But you get bp faster.
Today i got 0k, 2k, 0k, 2k games...
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I don't believe OP is asking for celebration. They are asking that people check their own double standards.
Oh? And by your own logic, camping takes skill too then. You must know how to not get baited out when a Survivor goes for a grab. You have to know the map and the optimal hook spots for camping.
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Whatever dude. You know what I mean. Celebration/Acknowledgement/etc. The things that leave a bad killer dreaming for who wins via taking "shortcuts".
No, I believe my logic is that Camping isn't equivalent to any of those things you've listed. That is where I am at.
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I think you are biased and need to check your own double standards.
You believe "camping" is a boring playstyle but refuse to acknowledge the Survivor equivalent. Not only that, you will decry people for using camping in response to Survivors playing in an extremely efficient but boring way.
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You don't get it. Survivors are allowed any tactic to win. There is no unfun or overpowered tactic or strategy a survivor can employ. There's an excuse to why every single one is fine. But the killer can employ many tactics (in fact, most killer tactics are unfun!) that are unfair and the killer who uses it should be banned!
Or at least, that's the gist of what I get from survivor mains on these forums.
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I'd rather stay away from us vs them arguments.
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You can think whatever you want of me. Not you pointing out my "bias" when in every other thread where someone is complaining about killer in some form you are right there to come to their defense. It's no wonder people think you are a killer main (Yeah I have seen people call you that).
I play both sides and I am well aware that there are discrepancies in this game that allow for one side to out-pace the other. However, I am not going to compare Holding W or any of the things you have listed the same as flat out Camping. Not when I understand how tremendously easy it is to do it.
What if they had gotten a killer-sided map? Do you think OP would have simply... not opted to use that same playstyle if they had been doing poorly? I don't think so. There is a reason this tactic is deemed as playing poorly (even by other killer mains).
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Oh, I'm biased and I've never claimed not to be. Although, funnily enough, I've been called a Survivor main more often than a Killer main because of my mini-crusade against NOED.
I think we are arguing about vastly different things and I see no way for us to agree. I suggest we stop now because it's begun to become personal. It would be the responsible and adult thing to do.
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I'll shake your hand on that. Because contrary to what you may believe right now, I do agree with other things you have said in the past and I think you are a swell guy.
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You compare late game vs early game.
If you got 8 hooks and 0 gens done, you played that terribly and you deserve to die.
If you want compare same thing then you would have to compare 1 hook and all gens done. Then what can killer do? Try to face-camp and get extra kill, but unless you are bubba, or Trickster, you will not get it against decent squad.
Not really thank, but why cry and group on killer with your friends just because some of you died?
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I had a game mid 2021 I was playing Spirit with a meme build (Sloppy, Mindbreaker, Furtive Chase, and Dragon's Grip) aginst a team with a ttv that was a swf as well they got upset cause I beat them and I was streaming this at the time as well and this didn't bother me at first. However these guys had such an ego that one of them was like you should raid him and tell everyone to leave.
The streamer at first wasn't down and there friends just ended up convincing them to it and they said alright guys we're gonna raid the spirit player and I want you all to leave once we raid That's exactly what happened and I was upset the day afterwards when I was making the highlight cause you're a streamer and this is how you treat other streamers you loose to a video game and go and do something stupid like that.
Survivor's have such big Ego's when things don't go there way. Not all of them do there's a bunch that play and have fun and if they loose they just move on to the next one.
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And solo queue still WOULD be 4v1 asymmetrical. SWF would be an alternate game mode, which is exactly what it is.
And if you imagine that I would not immediately switch to All-Bot Survivors the very second it became available, you have gravely misread the situation. Bots is a beautiful solution to a fundamentally unbalanced game. If you want another human being on the other end of the connection, and you want to play using all the comms benefits that the majority of survivor players do not get access to, you will just have to accept that the game isn't going to balanced and killers will continue to do the scummiest, least fun play method to secure kills.
And hey: if you're perfectly fine with tunneling, camping, slugging, and potentially long queue times: then okay. That's your business and you've made your choice. I suspect most survivors are less enthusiastic about those things, though.
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People wouldn't enjoy it because there's no point trying to BM and ruin the day of an AI with your clicking and tbagging and other BM's. You can't bully an AI since it has no emotion.
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That's pretty much what the argument against Bots boils down to. "I don't want to go against a bot. I want to feel like I'm getting one over on a stranger out there."
And I tell you what: we could even add a "Solo Queue" and "SWF Queue" to the killer options. So the default game is solo survivor vs. killer and the default team game is SWF vs. Bot, but on the RARE occasions when somebody feels like subjecting themselves to the wildly one-sided challenge, they can play as a killer vs a team. And hey! If that's an option, the survivors will never REALLY know if they were beating up on a bot or a person, so they can just pretend whatever they like.
It's like how, in a firing squad, one of the guns is loaded with blanks. So every person in the line can say to themselves: "I was the one with the blanks." But in this case, it's SWF teams saying "That was a real person we chain stunned, teabagged, sabo'd, and clicker macro'd."
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Most people are wrong. Camping INCORRECTLY is boring and a crappy strategy. Camping when it's a good strategy is the most fun a killer can ask for.
Clicky squad swarming you, trading places on the hook, getting slugged, crawling far enough away for a heal, healer gets slugged. Oh #########, Bill's unbreakable! Not smart enough to run away and heal up though, so he's down again. Getting to death hook for everyone now, did Steve just break off to finish gens or scout the hatch? Aw man, I killed two, but I'm way too far from a third hook to turn this into a snowball, Dammit Bill got away again! That sumbitch hates dying. Where the hell is Steve?
It's this simple: If you're camping and it's boring, stop, it's a bad plan. They're doing gens, you're boring and going to lose. Get back on patrol now.
But if they come running, camping is your business and business is fun as hell. The survivors might get mad, but they had an exciting match and they get mad no matter what.
And this idea that camping or tunneling just means an easy win in this game, that's only true at entry level. At higher MMR there are plenty of survivors that can handle camping/tunneling, even against Bubba. So I've heard.
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Again, I am not going to tell a group that Camping is boring even if my idea of it is different. I am going to move on get my points and go.
If someone tells me that they had a boring time because I camped them I don't try to debate, because it isn't up to me to decide what is/isn't boring to them. However, there is something to be said about it since many people on these very forums complain about it because it is very common.
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