'You Don't NEED A 4K!' - The Toxic Mindset
Comments
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Those comparisons are not even close to the same thing. Standard Killer complaints involve things that are just being a terrible person to get a negative response (Teabagging, flashlight clicking, bully squads). Standard Survivor complaints are camping, tunneling, and slugging which are actual game objectives.
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A win is getting a kill for a killer or an escape as a Survivor.
Source: the developers.
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That is definitely not true and the forum shows thus. How long have you been on here? Because If you were here long you would also see a bunch of killers complain about multiple legal survivor mechanics. Similar to how tunneling, camping and slugging are legal mechanics. To deny that killers don't complain about this is just bias.
Op has made a completely untrue claim that only survivors shame killers for trying to win when killers most definitely do the same thing
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You just described "The survivors' rulebook for killers" meme. It was in game since it was started. I just don't care about survivors' opinion during the match. In this we are opponents. My mission is to wipe them out. Their - to escape. That's all. If I see survivor was playing good, or he is was abandoned by his mates, or he just was respectfull and didn't try to bully killer in the game - I can give him hatch, but only if I want to do it. Not because he want's to.
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everyone in this game thinks they're a victim
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I have seen survivors giving free kills to the killer more than one time (after all gens were done and the gate 99%), or just line up at the hook to each get hooked twice so the killer gets some points out of it.
It does happen. But i admit, i never gave the killer a free kill. But i also never teabagged, never flashlight-clicked him, and always was respectful in the after game chat, because i know the killer is just my fellow gamer, not my enemy. I tried to never do things to the killer that i didn´t like to be done to me when i played killer.
(however, i did things as killer sometimes that i hated when i was a survivor, but then, i was a good survivor but a bad killer)
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I don't remember the last time I saw a Killer shame a Survivor for trying to win. Unless you are incorrectly trying to claim that Dead Harding to a pallet with validation on your side, flashlight clicking, or teabagging are "trying to win", because those things have nothing to do with completing a generator. Winning for a Survivor is doing a generator and walking out the exit gate - and nothing more.
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Both Killers and Survivors are getting shamed for trying their hardest to win
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So we just completely ignore that survivors action have no influence on gameplay, while killer actions are heavily influencing gameplay of one particular or more persons who are not at fault?
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"If you use X, you're bad" is a scrub mentality blaming/shaming tactic all kinds of players use, no matter if they're survivors or killers. You see people claim using dead hard means you're bad, you see people claim using NOED means you're bad and so on, and no matter who does it it's lame as hell. Blaming players for their grievances with the game itself, as well as trying to shame them into compliance at the same time is peak scrub behavior.
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You should play survivor since it's so much better, easier and so much more fun.
It's funny because I've always played both sides. Up until recently, I was more of a survivor player but I've gotten so sick of how unfun survivor is because of tunneling-off-hook and face-camping/proxy-camping that I'm enjoying Killer way more.
You really don't understand how bad playing survivor has gotten. At least I can actually play the game as Killer. I can't even play the game as survivor half the time.
The clicking of flashlights and but-dancing is no where near how awful it feels to not even get to play the game.
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You don't need a 4k every time usually refers to leaving one survivor to either nearly or completely bleed out while you hunt down the 4th.
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Ok? And...What? I should not try for that 4K because my opponents don't like it?
I get that it's not fun, but when I play a PvP game; I go in expecting my opponent to try to win, barring only: cheats, exploits/glitches, and treating your opponent like dirt.
This means I expect Survivors to use their best perks and tactics, while I use mine. If I don't like said perk or tactic; oh well. It's not my place to tell my opponent what they can or cannot do within the rules of the game and fair play.
And no, fair play does not mean 'Think of your opponents feelings while they lose'. Humans are competitive; we used to compete for food, for the choice mates, then it was land and money, and now games can be added to that. We hate losing. Losing sucks.
That does not mean your opponent(s) should give up his 4K (or 4E) because you, I, or anyone, don't like being slugged, or camped, or Dead Hard'd, etc.
This was addressed in my post, too; this mindset of 'Think of their feelings!' that causes people to shame others for how they play.
Sure: Think of your opponent as the human being they are: Don't be a <bleep> in victory or defeat. But that does not mean you have to stop trying to win, or 'Be happy with a 3K (or 3E)' because someone finds it toxic to slug & hunt, or whatever.
The thing of it is that people yell 'Slugging is toxic!' because they feel bad they got slugged while the Killer hunts for the 4th Survivor. ...Oh well?
Losing in Tekken feels bad. Being sniped in Fortnite feels bad. Does that mean losing should be banned because someone can't accept their opponent trying to win?
Treating your opponent like dirt is bad. Slugging to go for the 4K is just part of the game. It's not inherently bad or 'toxic', as some people would claim. Which is why I hate this 'You don't need a 4K' mindset; it's shaming Killers into giving up early because Survivors feel bad. It's baffling.
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How in the world do you handle other games with toxicity? This game doesn't hold a candle to games like Halo and call of duty, in Halo infinite I can shoot and then while you're respawning be over there teabagging and hitting your dead body while trashing you in the built in voice chat, but dbd the worst you can get is people who aren't physically speaking to you tbagging in front of you that you CAN do something about or they can facecamp and hit you on the hook while nodding I mean that's about as bad as it gets outside of the endgame chat, this game really isn't all that bad about toxicity people are just more sensitive these days and can't handle losing or being BM'd and to respond more direct to what you're talking about anyone who feels they should win every match in dominating fashion is the problem people expect their opponent to not try and that's an issue
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This is the first game I’ve ever played where one side of the community (survivor mains) tell the other side of the community (killer mains) that they should just be playing to have “fun” while at the same time they are always trying to win (escape). As a killer main, I wholeheartedly reject this notion. I play killer because I want kills. As such, I pay no mind to the survivor rule book. I play however I want to and I 3k/4k the majority of the time. Do I get destroyed sometimes? Of course. But I accept that I can’t win them all nor can I control how survivors decide to play. There’s only 3 possible outcomes for a match 1. Tough back and forth 2. Stomp 3. Get stomped.
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I was told I was sweating hard after a 1k Deathslinger match. I was like ...what?
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don't think I've ever in my life seen a survivor complain about how they didn't 4-man escape.
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Well, first of all, make an actual system that punishes the behavior like most PVP games second no I don't, not the game or the people but ignoring it makes it worse cause it grows and grows. Why do you think that some people who see streamers play dbd and act in the most inappropriate way are allowed to continue to be that way unless a third party intervenes? Not BHVR, not the game but something outside of both has to do it which is a bad way of running things
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I agree with everything you said except how you're saying it's just survivors, let's not pretend killers don't give survivors ######### for the perks they run or the map they play, ANYONE should be able to run whatever they want without getting trashed on just for having fun, I don't care if I'm playing end game nurse behind the gates with blood warden, insidious, Noed and kill everyone while nodding at the end, it shouldn't matter how I play or what I play because it's just a game and as long as you're having fun that's all that counts
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Most PvP games don't have anything in place for in game BM, I could get you in Halo infinite and have my entire team tbagging and hitting your dead body and it's not reportable at all, most games don't have such a soft player base that cries about anything and everything, the only true toxic thing in any game is the chat because people say some very ######### things or threaten you for literally nothing, in fact they need to get it over with and just give both survivors and killers a middle finger emote, I know I'd pay for it if it ever came to be in the game.
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1K on Deathslinger? Sounds like he needs another nerf.
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We heard you wanting nerfs for Deathslinger 1Ks and are taking steps: We've nerfed Pig and Legion. 🙃
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I'm not talking about bming I mean the other ######### where BHVR failed to do something about so now people have to turn off chat and private their accounts just to not get spam from people whining about ######### and that is something that shouldn't be ignored but it is, there should be a system for that but there's not and nowadays so many people say just ignore it when that shouldn't be a thing.
Also I have played other game with pvp and I never had people account message me for bullshit unlike this game so as much as you want to compare this to games with more players such as halo and cod the facts are that this game has less players but more toxic bullshit and unlike those games where its one team against another this one can have the potential of a more singular target mentality.
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For this, it's shown more by survivors trying to stroke their egos while not realizing or just being flat out ignorant that this game is more survivor-sided than killer-sided. While the things you mentioned for killer perks are true tell me this how many times have you had a killer act like hot ######### while using/being carried by noed and such compared to survivors acting like hot ######### while using/ being carried by the meta perks. Honestly, IMO if there is any game modes that should be added there should be a no perk version of the game so there are no crutches, no gimmicks and no broken saves/bullshit.
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if a killer literally camps the first person, anything above a 1k is the survivors’ fault. Camping is not the same thing and does not have the same impact as survivors running dh, decisive, bt, iron will, unbreakable, adrenaline etc and playing a crap map offering like Haddonfield/Badham/Red Forest/Game etc because doing so actually wildly skews the match in the survivors’ favor.
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I have started playing the game in the last like 4 days so I might be able to give a sort of clean opinion on this topic. The very first match my friend tried to introduce me to the game we got a killer that hooked a single survivor and camped them. This survivor happened to be me. It was miserable. It was honestly a miracle that after that encounter I kept playing because I sure as heck did not want to. Like it or not, often the Survivors' fun is based on how the Killer plays. If the killer decides to be a butthurt camper then the survivors straight up won't have fun, especially the one they decide to focus and/or camp.
On the other hand, I have played matches as killer when the only reason I wasn't bullied to hell and back 4 times was because I played Hillbilly and have the flashlight immunity perk on (which I debated for a long while to swap for something "more useful", thank god I didn't).
As much fun the game is, the devs need to put in some countermeasures against unfun tactics. Give more penality for camping hooks would be my first idea. Secondly, many survivor strats needs to be less effective. I feel like when there is a survivor with the Boon totem perk you either focus them down asap or lose the match. There is no in between. If there are two high level Genshin Impact looking ass girls on the survivor team it's a lost cause unless they REALLY mess up (doesn't mean I don't try since leaving uses up my offerings which I don't have many yet and it's not fun just giving up but stil). Sabotaging needs a good look at. It is a really cool moment when a survivor sabotages a hook just in time to save the survivor on their back, but when an entire team takes full bully sabotage build it's not fun for the killer. For flashlight bully builds, maybe give the killers an enrage buff after getting flashed or something for a second or two increasing movement speed or making every hit a one hit down or something like that as well as giving them some immunity to flashes for some time (similar to the stun buff in Darkest Dungeon where if a character gets stunned, they get a 50% stun resistance buff for 2 turns).
As a closing note, I'd like to say that DH is not op and it's kind of fun to notice that a survivor has DH and the next time I chase them we have engaged in a battle of minds where you have to call them calling your bluff with reverse-reverse pshychology and stuff. It shouldn't be a basic part of survivors' kit tho (I read such a suggestion somewhere which seems a bit excessive? It's good that it is kind of a trade-off between some other perk or DH).
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But you know what? It never works in reverse. I've never seen someone say 'You don't NEED a 4E!'.
I've never seen Survivors give the Killer a kill if they're all going to escape.
I've never seen Survivors shamed for playing for a 4E, or not thinking of Killers feelings.
I've seen all of these things. What are you talking about?
1) 4 escape sucks, unless it's 8 hooks. It means the game was unbalanced and was probably bad matchmaking. And plenty of people sacrifice themselves when they feel bad for killers.
2) Sweaty survivors. Toxic Nea. Are you joking me? People say this stuff all the time.
3) Plenty of shame going around against survivors. What are you talking about?
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This is why you play for YOUR fun. When I play killer, I'll do whatever I need to do to 4k. If the survivors get 4k, that is on them. I know they truly are stronger than the killer when played well. If the people playing survivor can't play at a level where they should win, that is on them.
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"You should play survivor since it's so much better"
Good advice. I do. Haven't touched killer since the first couple days of artist. Exclusively play survivor. Far far more fun and chill. No stress at all.
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Not sure why you quoted me in that, since your post has nothing to do with anything I said.
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I don't even know what this sentence is supposed to mean.
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I think they mean the Survivor can't knock the Killer out of the match, while the Killer can do so to Survivors.
Which, I mean; duh? That's the Killer's goal, but also the biggest 'excuse' Survivors use for anti-camping; How DARE Killers knock a player out 'early'! (You know; ignoring that there's no way of knowing what 'early' is on a per-Survivor basis)
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Actually that's untrue because It really depends on what killer you are, if you play a lower tier killer and you know your MMR is high then that's on you if you lose for choosing to handicap yourself, not only that but camping (which I honestly don't mind) will grant you more than one kill almost every time because I can't control how my trash solo teammates decide to play that situation, my point was that it doesn't matter what either side is running people should be able to play how they want without hearing excuses about Noed or dead hard or any of that junk because that's exactly what it is , a bunch of crying because whoever lost isn't as good as they thought they were and made mistakes to get themselves there, the perks are meant to be used to have fun not to shame someone for running a perk and doing well with it, there's always an excuse for these people
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My point is it doesn't matter what perks they run, who gives a #########? Not me I can tell you that much for sure, it doesn't matter what side you are when you play or if you play equally if you complain 24/7 about anything and everything you're the problem here not the killer running Noed or the survivor running dead hard. I got Hacked for slugging at 4 gens with nurse and kicked off the game for a week just recently so I play killer I know how people are and not everyone who plays is a complainer but I'm telling you they don't make enough tissues to soak up the tears from people constantly crying and complaining about this game.
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No surprise.
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I've read it 3 times now, I don't know if it's a translation thing, where English isn't the poster's first language or what, but I'm not sure either, hopefully they will clarify.
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As i have mentioned in another topic, for me as killer, the problem isn't if i get a 4K.
MY problem is that the survivors have the need to mock and bully the killer, especially beginners.
It's a game and i really don't have a problem of 4E, i for sure, congratulate the survivors for doing it, IF they have played legit, without cheating and bullying the killer. Relax guys, you are 4 vs 1. If your strength, your ego and your brutality comes out if you bully or mock a poor killer then you are pathetic. Killers are also players who are on the opposite site BUT THEY MUST HAVE A RESPECT AS A PLAYER. If you don't respect other players, then don't ask for respect to yourself.
On the other hand, survivors have a problem if a killer gets 4K, if he camps, etc. This is the fcking game. A camping Killer doesn't moke you, or bully you and it isn't against the game rules. That doesn't mean that he doesn't respect you. These are 2 different things.
The killer uses his only way he has to win the game. You have to deal with it. Unfortunately the game mechanics for the killer to win is hooking and bleeding, if you like it or not.
I wish there was a way for him to win just throwing flowers to you. Does this will make you feel better? This is the game and those are the game's mechanics. Bad behaviour, bullying, mocking, toxicity are a different things.
If you do this you are acting like kilds. Like my 4 yo son who can't stop me when i feed him with spinach and he throws me his plate.
Grow up and act like adults and not like kids.
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They do it indirectly. The killer gets 2-3k and then the other survivors complain about tactics or call the killer a loser/no life. They are implicitly mad because more didn’t get out.
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ok lmao.
any killer complaint is now officially them complaining about not 4king.
t-bagging complaint? You're just mad you didn't 4K
Dead hard complaint? You're just mad you didn't 4K
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Yea, they're mad because the killer didn't let more out. Why should the killer do anything except get as many kills as possible? It's not the killer's job to make sure everyone has fun. That falls on the devs, and they have been failing miserably.
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Are they really though, or are we just saying this because you know survivors don't actually complain and want 4man escapes like killers do with 4 kills?
I've never in my life seen someone say the killer should let them go and give them a 4man escape lmao.
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You must be joking.... have you really not seen the endless threads on this forum demanding nerfs to weak killers/perks? It all comes from the sense of entitlement survivors have: I lost, therefore this thing needs to go. If survivors didn't want the 4 man out, they wouldn't complain about the killer securing kills. Just because they don't use the words "i want a 4 man escape" does not mean that they are thinking reasonably.
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So in conclusion, if i have understand well, the survivors are going mad, they gain toxicity, mock and bully, because the KILLER, who his job to win is to KILL, KILLS the survivor in order to win the game.
So survivors don't want KILLERS to do their job, which is to KILL, because it will make the KILLER win and this is not good for survivors...
So KILLERS are bad because they KILL to win and they must not KILL, according to survivors, because they will win.
So KILLERS must never win this game, according to survivors.
Great....!!!
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
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"t-bagging complaint? You're just mad you didn't 4K
Dead hard complaint? You're just mad you didn't 4K"
I have had many great games where I laughed and got a 0K because they were not doing either of those things.
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That's for mmr (which is a joke anyway). So it's not a win if you run the killer for 5gens you get face camped to death and in turn 3 survivors escape? Or it is a win if you just hide the entire game and then escape? lmao
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dude. chill. if you want the 4k then go play for the 4k, why open a thread that serves no purpose? a game should not affect you this much mentally.
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You're kind of ignoring the undercurrent of toxicity in the game, with a reply like that.
Who cares if it affects me or not. Who cares if the insults actually affect anyone or not. They should still be discouraged. But this game seems to have this undercurrent of 'It's okay to be an #########' coupled with 'Why do the Killers do things I don't find fun?' and/or 'Why is the Killer not thinking of MY fun?'
There was a reply either today or yesterday in another thread where someone literally said 'I get sweaty killers going for the 4K instead of trying to have fun'. And that is the mindset I'm referring too; this idea that Killers are responsible for Survivor fun, and should stop 'sweating for the 4K'. IE: They should stop trying to win, because it makes Survivors sad.
Again; this is the only PvP game I've ever played where one side thinks the other side should consider their fun, and play accordingly.
I've never heard of this excuse in LoL, Fortnite, Overwatch, Planetside 2, PUBG, Dark Souls PvP circles, CSGO, TF2, Armello, DBFZ, Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc. etc.
But in DBD, for some unholy reason, each side seems to think 'My fun' is an excuse for balance. They also think it's an excuse to shame the 'other side' for how they play, and demand the 'other side' play according to their own 'fun'.
You what to know something, readers? DBD is known for having one of the most toxic player bases in current gaming.
When New World launched, and PvP players were demanding PvE players be forced to PvP, or PvP players be allowed to push PvE players off gathering nodes, and PvP players literally claiming they're just better human beings than 'scrubby PvE players'; I actually saw someone say 'This community is horrible' and one of the first replies was 'No way. You want a horrible community? Play DBD.'
You don't counter toxicity by ignoring it & letting the spewers continue to act this way to other people.
You stop these mindsets, from both sides, at the bud. You punish toxicity by confronting it and removing it, not ignoring it. And since the developers have said they don't care, and anything short of racism and death threats is fine; it's up to the community to be the adults that the devs are too lazy to be.
We, the players, need to tell our teammates that it's not cool to insult the Killers.
We, the players, need to not insult Survivors AS the Killer.
We, the players, need to be good sports, win or lose, regardless of what perks and tactics are used. It does not matter if you, I, or Bill or Dwight and Ghostface think a perk is 'cheap' or 'OP' or 'unfair'; that is no excuse to treat another human being like garbage.
And part of that is to stop this toxic mindset that you (royal 'you'; not the person I quoted or anyone specific) are owed fun. Or you expect the other team to consider your fun over their attempt to win.
It's an unreasonable expectation. Both sides are trying to win and, short of cheats or unintended exploits; they have a right to try to win however they want. And it gets frustrating, as a Killer, when Survivors bring 4 meta perks each, play as hard as they can (and have a right too), and then scream at me over the perks I chose & the tactics I employed, because 'my fun' is an accepted excuse to be a miserable human being to someone else.
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No.
Yes.
In that order.
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Every player, every healthy minded person should think like that in every game.
This is a general rule and advice. Games are for fun.
We struggle in our RL, we struggle in our families, we struggle in our routine and gaming is life savior.
If we ruin games we ruin FUN, we ruin the special moments we have during the day for our pleasure.
The moments we enjoy, we forget our problems, WE HAVE FUN.
If we ruin our games, and get bully and toxicity it's better for us to quit and watch a movie.
Don't let toxic people ruin DBD. All the friends and the teammates should talk if they see such a behavior.
"You don't counter toxicity by ignoring it & letting the spewers continue to act this way to other people.
You stop these mindsets, from both sides, at the bud. You punish toxicity by confronting it and removing it, not ignoring it. And since the developers have said they don't care, and anything short of racism and death threats is fine; it's up to the community to be the adults that the devs are too lazy to be.
We, the players, need to tell our teammates that it's not cool to insult the Killers.
We, the players, need to not insult Survivors AS the Killer.
We, the players, need to be good sports, win or lose, regardless of what perks and tactics are used. It does not matter if you, I, or Bill or Dwight and Ghostface think a perk is 'cheap' or 'OP' or 'unfair'; that is no excuse to treat another human being like garbage."
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Exactly.
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