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1 hour long but impossible to lose matches...is this what fun looks like?
First some context to this whole thing.
Got the game free on Epic, played with a friend who had like ~200 hours before that, I'm a fast learner, I got to Iridescent 2 and him to Iridescent 4, I have meh perks as I'm stuck with the starter survivors so games are usually pretty close.
I also sometimes play as a killer when he's not online. And now here's my issue. For a while killer was fun, I was maining Huntress, chases could take anywhere from 15-30 seconds, the pacing was nice, I'd win some games, I'd lose some, I bought Doctor because fighting vs him felt infuriating...but in a good way, like he was meant to be, constantly making you panic, didn't feel overpowered nor weak.
But then I got to silver rank with killer and game is constantly putting me vs 4 man Iridescent rank players with 2 flashlights and 2 toolboxes, they use said toolboxes to sabotage hooks the moment I grab someone, they body block, they flashlight save, they do EVERYTHING to make sure I can't get a single hook, If I chase someone they go to the most disgusting place on the map to loop me for 1 minute until their teammates finish 3 gens.
NOW finally to my point. I was sick of playing their nasty games so I now I tunnel someone until they do 2 gens, then patrol the 3 closest remaining gens on the map, forcing them to do the furthest one and 3 gening themselves, and since I play Doctor with Distressing + Calm addon, after I whack someone and if they make a small mistake I might chase for a few seconds, then I go in the center of the gens, with my huge terror radius I use Static Blast and where I see a scream I go and whack that generator with Oppression + Overcharge perk.
This leads to games taking 30-60 minutes until they eventual get greedy with the gens or they make a mistake and I catch them. Haven't lost a single game yet this way despite the matchmaking spazzing out with 15 minute queues to find me 4 man premade squads that are all Iridescent 1 with Unbreakable + Borrowed Time + Dead Hard + random perk.
Am I winning all matches? Yes. Is it fun? HELL NO, but if I can't have fun, neither will those survivors.
And what seems to be the cause of this? Gen finishing speed is too fast and loops are too powerful. Gens need to take longer and loops need to be cut shorter, especially pallets, make pallet drop animation faster (buff for survivors) but cut down the walls around them so the loop is harder (buff for killers), so that way survivors drop pallets and run instead of looping you endlessly around the same broken piece of parkour scenery.
1 week ago I didn't understand why killers were complaining, now I see why. Might go back to survivor because despite killer making more BP, 2x the BP is not worth it when matches take 4x longer.
Comments
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Respectfully, if your matches are lasting 30-60 minutes, your opponents are either not trying to win or not good.
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Where are you finding these 30-60 mins long matches? Mine are around 14-20 mins tops
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You're playing Doctor, a killer who's primary power is anti-loop. If you cannot deal with loops- and since you've only been playing with the free weekend, forgive me for believe you inexperienced in the grand scheme of things- then you need to improve.
You suggested survivors instead pre-drop pallets, rather than loop. If only you knew how strong pre-dropping truly was. It's the best survivor strategy currently in the game, and makes games even more dull because there's absolutely zero interaction on all sides. Out of the three main ways a survivor can, you know, survive- those being looping, stealthing, or pre-drop W-key-ing- looping is by far the most interactive and offers the most chances for you to one-up the other side.
If you're facing decked out 4man squads but they cannot complete 5 gens in the time it takes to tunnel one survivor, you're not facing the decked out 4man squads that people actually fear. In the time it takes for you to down one person with a non-mobility killer will be the time 4 gens have popped and the remaining three are across different sides of the map.
What I do concede from your post, even if you've said it indirectly, is the matchmaking is terrible and the new player experience is dogshit.
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I don't let them last 14-20, I force them to 3-gen then I keep patrolling the 3 gens until they make a mistake.
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Damn, you got cynical fast. Lost the fun in under a month or so?
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If you would play against good players the games wouldnt last that long, nor wouldnt they even 3gen themselves. Also grades dont equal to skill, esp. if theyre in SWF. Also you could easily adapt to this playstyle if you would try to get better instead of relying on salty gameplay. This just looks like some of those daily whiny killer threads. I guess some people are just recreating accounts to have a kind of self fullfilling prohecy going on here. Its really fishy these days.
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Well seeing how I'm now just Silver 2 as a killer, you can imagine I don't have much experience as a killer. I have like 25 matches with Huntress and ~10 with Doctor.
Pre-dropping might not promote much interaction but at least it buys the survivor time that can be quantifiable if loops were cut way shorter, currently some loops are so stupid that I literally looped a Ghostface around the shack for 3 minutes. Do you think that was fun for the Ghostface? Sure was fun for me as a survivor watching him struggle knowing my team is doing 3 gens in that time, but I doubt he liked it. Another game something similar happened with a Spirit, gen in shack, I was doing it, she came after me, my team were doing 3 other gens, I looped her around the shack for a bit, then 3 gens were done within 5 seconds of each other and then she just disconnected, do you think she had fun?
Yes I'm aware Doctor can anti-loop, that's how I'm catching people making mistakes while I patrol the 3 gens and commit for a few seconds when I see someone.
The 4 man squad? They all come to rescue that one guy after I patrol gens, it's pretty obvious when they're about it, so I static blast after they do that + I have spies from the shadows so it's very easy to find the unhooked person and hook them back again as I always try to bring them to a hook with no nearby loops. Then 2nd time I try to hook them they all come body blocking, flashlighting, toolboxing the hooks and don't do gens. I don't ALWAYS get the tunnel, so now I'm stuck vs 4 people on 3 close gens, it's very annoying but because of Oppression + Overcharge it's not that hard to not let them do the last gen by ignoring chases and just running around, giving them madness 3 to force them to waste time to snap out while I kick gens.
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Under a month? I wish, last week I was enjoying Huntress in Bronze, winning some, losing some, quick 8-12 minute matches, now I'm in this hell hole where I need to make the game unfun for everyone JUST to have a chance at winning. Either that or I'm assuming learning Nurse/Blight so their loops are hard, but I don't enjoy their playstyle.
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They are clearly farming you and when that happens just go open a gate or force it to end another way a skilled team should be able to do a match in under 20 min and a bad team could be up to twice that. The issue for new players is that so many perks are locked behind paywalls which is why the shrine of secrets exists in the store page. Ideally until you have a good build expect almost all losses so that when the time comes for you to start buying other characters you at least know what your getting from their perks. One suggestion id say to you for killer is getting leatherface first he can be strong and bbq perk is often one of the most used killer perks from mid to gold.
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I'm not letting them do anything else BUT 3 genning, they eventually give up and do that gen in the distance that I'm ignoring on purpose to force a 3 gen, Doctor + maxed out terror radius + Oppressions + Overcharge, they simply can't do those 3 gens that are closest if I don't want them to do them as I just ping-pong from one to another.
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Shack is absolutely counterable by M1 killers or anti-loop killers alike, and the fact you could loop people there for so long shows their inexperience and they didn't even attempt a mindgame.
And if you're facing a 4man squad, all 3 of them will not appear at the hook. Ever. One will go for an unhook and one will take a chase while one remains on gens. If all of them appear around the hook then you're far more likely to face solos than the stacked out DeathSquad™.
Furthermore, Overcharge vs good survivors will work a grand total of about 5 times. One for each of them and then one where they miss it through a quick check and madness. There's a reason it's never used when facing very good Squads, and it's because (no offence) the perk is dogshit.
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I'm not sure who's farming who. This was my last match: https://i.imgur.com/KBhZXQQ.jpg
Took ~40 minutes, I got nearly 8k score in each category and 3 iridescent badges, the only reason the one guy got away is because he found the hatch after an inevitable mistake of the guy below him.
It really isn't fun though, but it's better than to chase someone that loops you for 2 minutes, and once you get him, you realize 3 gens are done and a person was already waiting with the flashlight for you to pick them up and if that fails, all 3 body block the hook...so ya, if they play dirty, I play dirty, if I don't have fun, they won't either, 30+ minute timewastes for everyone.
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Then I guess I must have faced only dogshit players that somehow were missing skill checks because of madness + those perks but were also able to loop like gods, guess everyone has their strengths, but not everyone can hit tiny skill checks when you have a constant heart beat around you + a red stain on top of you forcing you to look around 24/7 as you never know where I might appear from.
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I've had them before.
For example:
- Get sent to Ironworks on Demo. Get hammered by a 3man SWF right from the get go, but eventually eliminate one and then another after they give me a 3gen. Two of them decide to sulk and play hide and seek for 45 minutes, doing just enough to avoid the crows, until I go AFK.
- End up in Eyrie as Pig versus a 4man TTV SWF from Russia. They keep the hook at the rear of the map sabo'd and immediately run there if they're injured. Refuse to complete the final gen and instead spend half an hour meme-ing on stream with bodyblocks, sabos and a pair of boon totems (Exponential/Overcome/CoH). Basically impossible to hook them.
That said:
A few thoughts:
- There are indeed loops that are a bit strong, but Doctor isn't a killer that worries as much about them. Once you have your shocks down, you should be able to contest many of these.
- Part of your problem is likely your build. Distressing is terrible, even on Doctor - you are giving people an extra two seconds to start running. I'm not sure what perks you have available, but try something like: Jolt/Surge+Sloppy+Overcharge+Oppression, based on the perks you mentioned having.
- If you have them, Starstruck+Agitation+Pop+Oppression would be another solid option for you. This will absolutely stomp the people that seem to frustrate you.
- The 'no hooks' squads are very frustrating. However, again, Doctor is one of the best killers to counter these. Survivors can't sabo in Madness III.
- Grades have no effect on your matchmaking.
- 3gens are strong, but it sounds like what you are doing is forcing a stalemate situation. If you force a stalemate, you don't get to complain about the game being a stalemate.
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I'm forcing a stalemate because If I give into the chase they all clump up on 1 gen like flies on horseshit and they win. I don't chase more than 5-10 seconds, hoping they go into an illusionary pallet or make a mistake in a dumb loop where I can static shock them and whack them, they EVENTUALY make such a mistake, that's how I can win my games.
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You are winning your games by forcing a stalemate and hoping the other side gives up first. What's going to happen is that your MMR is going to inflate and you'll be up against survivors who'll run rings around you, and you'll be having no fun.
Accept that you'll have to take a few losses as you learn how to chase, play games out (just...turn postgame chat off) and focus on the fundamentals. Eventually your MMR will stabilize at a region where you'll find your stride.
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In all honesty though you should be glad your not playing old doc before he had static blast it was truely a nightmare at times a map thats really good for him is crotus since his SS goes through walls. You also want to try and get everyones madness up before you go for hooks either 2 or 3 but 2 is the best since they cant lower it yet. You can tell what madness a character is on from the static around their portrait. Horizontal lines is T1 vertical is T2 and full on static is T3. Remember too that in T3 surivors can lower it back to T1 after they focus which means they cant do gens for that period of time. So the trick is to get everyone to T2 and leave it there if you can and just M1 everyone. Another reason to get leatherface too is for franklins demise which is a perk that lets you knock items out of players hands when you m1 them. Its not used a lot but if you see a team of survivors with 4 toolboxes you almost always want to try and bring it.
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Like I said, then those arent good players.
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I'm already facing those players, that's why I'm resorting to such dirty strategies to win.
I can chase decently well, especially since Doctor can anti-loop, sad thing is, while I lock up their loops, I get slowed down while casting static shock, so while they can't vault, they still just run around the same piece of scenery while I make like 0.2-0.4 meters of progress per loop, taking me 1-2 minutes until I eventually catch up to them as I won't let them vault.
Chat ain't the issue for me, after 15 years of online gaming chattering salty people don't do anything to me, I'm very much aware the only reason they bothered typing is because I pissed them off in some way, regardless of what they say. What they say doesn't annoy me, the gameplay does.
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Or you could kill them before they even 3gen themselves
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Actually what’s more likely to happen is eventually he’ll become better at catching the really good runners in chase more efficiently and break the stalemate that way. Using a 3-gen strategy is a good tactic, the only reason the matches are taking so long is he’s not quite good enough in the chases he gets to get the down quickly.
Also the perk choice of Overcharge and Unnerving probably isn’t helping in the early game against survivors who can still make those skill checks. Eventually switching to different perks could maybe help get the downs more quickly as well or add enough extra slowdown to give him more time to leave the 3-gen for a down.
Just speculating though.
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Easier said than done, or else killers wouldn't be complaining lol.
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Odd choice to force a 3gen doc and then whine that the game takes too long. You're bringing it on yourself.
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Not really, it is a survivor choice to extend the game that long and refuse to win the war of attrition. Not his.
That being said, because he knows that survivor mains are the way that they are. I 100% agree that this is a case of contributory negligence. As the more competent individual, he has a greater share of the responsibility to prevent this scenario because you cannot expect a survivor main to have the capacity to do it themselves. Legally speaking, that is.
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Ehh... while this is a stance I rarely take, I think your issue is that you're so focused on the 4k that you've propelled yourself into an MMR area that's beyond your skill level, and now you've entered a zone where you can only play excruciating, teeth-pulling strategies in order to keep winning. Yes, your games are extremely long, but you're making them that way.
What you need to do is deflate your MMR. Play more chill games and you'll end up in a region where you're able to enjoy your games again, and you will gradually increase your skill as you play the game so that when you end up in this MMR area again, you'll be better prepared for it and will not have to resort to stalemate Doc. (I find that playing against players slightly better than you is a good learning experience, but playing against players who are vastly better than you is not.) Winning isn't the end-all-be-all, and if you're not having any fun with what you're doing, why even play at that point?
Don't misunderstand me - you have very legitimate complaints, especially where SWFs and map resources are concerned, and it's 100% valid to play to 4k every game. But this strikes me as an issue with the current MMR - killers who 4k consistently using one tactic get pushed beyond their means very quickly, and their skill repertoire isn't fleshed out enough to deal with the opponents they meet at this level (especially not the 4-stacks), forcing them into even further reliance on their one stale trick because they have no room to successfully try anything else.
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SO you won all the games but gens repair should be slowly because you want to win faster. You are very welcome in this forum
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@iThe1One playing to win as Killer and playing to have fun are rarely, if ever, synonymous.
I just recently did a study on camping, and the early results were very quickly revealing that camping (the most boring thing you can do as killer) is far more effective at winning than not camping.
As you've acknowledged, you are leveraging a tactic that is effective.
Your issue is that this tactic is boring.
Unfortunately, that is the reality of DBD.
If you want to have fun while winning, you will need to play killers with higher skill floors.
Essentially, you want to trick you brain into focusing on learning how to master the killer's ability, and have fun with that activity, rather than draw all your satisfcation from the 4k.
Killers with higher skill floors:
Billy, Nurse¹, Huntress², Oni, Deathslinger², Executioner¹, Blight, and Cenobite
¹ Personally, I find both of these killers easier to learn than the rest of the community, and find them extremely boring once mastered
² If you're coming from thousands of hours in FPS games, these killers offer you little in the way of "skills to master"
Also, if you're considering playing a stealth killer other than Wraith, I suggest Ghost Face. Myers' novelty is short-lived, and Pig is laughably weak. Ghost Face is a great cross between the two, that offers a rewarding experience when learning his power.
Edit: idk if it was said above, but doctor has a relatively low skill ceiling, which contributes to the issues you are running into. He pub stomps at lower ranks, but veteran survivors do all the laughing against him. So while you may continue to struggle against him as survivor (maybe not as much now that you're playing him), his power is not as strong as your random teammates will lead you to believe.
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...What? You see one person post that they don't let anyone have fun because they're not having fun, and suddenly all killers are messed up and take this as a creed? I feel like I missed something.
Take a step back and think about what you're saying. Yeah, there's some killers out there that hate survivors and don't want them to be allowed to have fun. There's also survivors who make it their mission to prevent the killer from having any fun, and that doesn't make the killers who think there's some kind of evil survivor overmind that dictates BM for all any less crazy. The vast majority of players would not agree this is a good mindset, and most complaints on this forum are, whether fair or ill-advised, seeking to address the issues that prevent the game from being fun and necessitating obnoxious strategies.
Stay away from the 'all people who main a side are awful' takes; they are always gross mischaracterizations and this community really doesn't need more of them.
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Genspeeds are fine, you're not supposed to protect all 5 generators. You're just meant to slow them down or prepare for a situation where gens being gone quickly is beneficial(endgame perks like Bloodwarden and No Way Out, you only need 4 hooks to make that combo quite powerful).
Loops being too powerful, really depends on what killer you're playing. Doctor doesnt really have loops that are too powerful. You kinda have to chain loops to outplay a Doctor. Bubba has issues with some windows, but mainly he's fine. Nurse doesnt care about loops. Spirit is fast enough to run around and hit a survivor before they are finished vaulting.
A killer seed to reduce loops that are too powerful against a certain killer. Like, there is this coldwind loop that's basically a god pallet, and it has the chance to spawn 3 times against Legion, the killer who has by far the most issues with that loop, the most disgusting part about those loops? Well, remember how walls were raised in Coldwind Farm so stretched res users couldnt abuse it? Well, they added 4 super strong tiles where every survivor can do that now. If the killers were anti-loop, this would be somewhat fine, as the killers need to listen to the footsteps to use their anti-looping power. Against killers that have no anti-loop, this is basically an impossible task and survivors can loop that 1 loop for ages before they even need to drop the pallet, at which point, the killer is forced to break it and they can loop it again for ages before they get a hit.
Problem is, you cant really add in a pallet block the same way a window block exists. As you can get rid of, and brute force pallets. However, there needs to be a system at play that prevents too powerful loops from spawning in against killers that literally do not have an ability that forces survivors to drop it early.
Personally, I would love to see a high-risk, high-reward kind of area, where strong loops can only be accessed while healthy(hooks, totems and gens and chests cant spawn here for obvious reasons), as entering the area it loses you a healthstate, makes you broken for as long as you are in there and makes you exhausted. Meaning if you were to enter it while injured, you'd get downed. This area would effectively have the strongest pallets in the map, as they are resources that need to be quickly used. But leaving it succesfully reduces the exhaustion by the amount of time you have spend in that area(meaning if you're already exhausted, you could go to that area to recover exhaustion faster at the cost of a healthstate and indicating the killer exactly where you are and what you are doing). It wouldnt even be too hard to add to the tutorial.
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Also, to be fair, if you count a 3-4k as a win and are willing to spend 60 minutes achieving that, but dont have fun while doing it, why are you still aiming for the 3-4k? You're clearly in a position with too high MMR, and you're just climbing the MMR, having less and less fun, taking longer and longer. If you want fun, you cant play competitively. If you want to play competitively, you cant have fun.
This game isnt a competitively designed game, there is no competitive mode. This is exaclty why *in general* competitive games are super boring, and the most fun games arent competitive. There are exceptions ofcourse, and those are often the games that some players yearn for, but in general, this isnt the case.
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Tunneling, camping and slugging usually gets the job done
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There's not much else I can do, if I commit to a chase they'll do the last gen and I lose, because they know they need to pull me away off towards the other end of the map first. There are a few maps I do commit to the chase for a bit longer if I know the state of all 3 gens, those I can end quicker, like Dead Dawg Saloon for example, but most maps are too huge for that.
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I mean, I kinda agree with you there, not gonna lie...but playing more "chill" when the double flashlight + double toolbox tryhards all swarm me when I'm about to hook someone because I finally caught him after an entire minute chase around the jungle gym, constantly zapping to deny vaults and sloooooowly closing the gap, just to end up losing the game regardless, while they click their flashlights sure isn't chill. I can easily tell when there's only 2-3 premades and then I have a chance, so I don't tryhard like that in that case, but when all 4 have the same 3 perks and play in nasty ways, you can be sure that match will go on for an hour if that's how long it will take me to catch all 4 or the last 1 alive finds the hatch.
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No, I want gens slower so killers actually commit to chases, because even when I play survivor, I do 2-3 loops and the killer just moves on, can't blame them, they'll lose 3 gens if they don't. But now I realize that might not be a good change in low MMR games where players get caught much faster by the killer...
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I don't play like this unless I'm facing those stacked 4 premades that had too much Adderral this morning and all swarm me with flashlights and toolboxes the moment I'm about to hook someone.
I don't play like this if I chase someone, they don't taunt and I'm not getting swarmed by their teammates...you know, hook them, I go after someone else, they get rescued, rinse repeat, the match has tempo, everyone's enjoying it, then whatever, they win, I win, don't care. But if they start being nasty then you can be sure I just patrol the 3 closest gens on the map, forcing them to 3gen and then keeping them hostage until I EVENTUALLY get all of them, or the last one escapes via hatch.
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Holy crap you gave me an idea, you're right, window loops are to powerful, so what if, after a certain number of vaults (this will require visual change to windows to make sense, they might not be windows anymore) the killer can then "break" the lower part of the window, essentially making a door from a window, but again, survivors need to quick vault over them to "wear them out" so to speak, only then can the killer break it, slow vaults don't wear them out.
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It's not about the win, it's about doing the same dirty tricks and taunting like certain salty premade survivors do, if they do that to me, I do it back in the way I've described, I'm not letting them escape even if it takes 1 hour. I hate it, it's not fun, but they were having too much fun on my behalf so now no one's having fun.
I had teams completely ignoring gens, and just swarming me, refusing to let me hook, flashlighting me, etc. I'd eventually get 1 killed (thanks to madness 3) and then they start running and doing gens, but nope, too late for that, if that's how you want to play it, that's how I can play it as well.
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I don't like camping, there's a limit to how much "unfun" I'm willing to take in order to make them suffer, patrolling 3 gens isn't THAT boring like camping is, and if they're the competent teams I keep getting, camping means they usually finish 4 gens by the time that 1 person dies, that's assuming I catch that person within the first 30 seconds of the match.
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You can camp and protect a 3 gen
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You're entirely right; there's no such thing as a chill game when you're against bully squads. The problem is that since you keep beating teams through brute force strategies when it seems like otherwise you should be losing against them, you're going to keep facing these people, and at that point you're not allowed to have any fun. Take some losses and you should end up in a healthier area (even if I completely understand the desire to individually punish each group that's BMing you.) Or just punish the BMers but relax in the games where you don't hate all of the survivors personally. Your current issue is that the game thinks you're more capable of dealing with high level survivor gameplay than you are, and for as long as MMR is a thing, this is the metric we've got to work with.
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You're getting 4ks as Killer and you want to nerf survivors. LOL!!!
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It's a beginner, don't bully them too hard
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Doc and Hag are the 2 killers who draw out games, if you dont like that switch killers.
I personally lose the will to play if a match drags on like that unless I specifically want to spite you personally, so I play faster killers with no or little slowdown.
With the introduction of Boon totems, Doc and Hags ability to force stalemates is kinda worthless if you ask me. You only win against such a team is if they get bored and commit suicide.
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A buff and a nerf, buff pallet drop speed but cut down walls around pallets, that way they can drop pallets and run, but not loop around them for 1-2 minutes, that's incredibly anti-fun for most killers.
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