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Man Solo Survivor is Rough

RiskyKara
RiskyKara Member Posts: 804
edited January 2022 in General Discussions

After losing count of the amount of times I've been left to hit struggle on first hook, or even die on first hook, I'm starting to understand better why some survivors just would rather kill themselves early on. Save themselves the grief.

Not to say I've done it yet.

But like I kind of get it now.

Comments

  • When the objective of the game is to do gens, and the win requirement is escaping, some people feel like it's only necessary for someone to die on hook. Everyone is essentially doing "their part" to help "win the game" and forget that maybe nobody's actually grabbing that player off the hook...

  • DeadArsenal
    DeadArsenal Member Posts: 221

    Like I said earlier: It's too late for that. BHVR has allowed a meta of toxicity to flourish, first among Survivors and now among Killers. There is no benefit in facilitating a fun experience. They're too busy defending twitter users from bigotry.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976
    edited January 2022

    Except that 4x DS and BT dont really affect your fun as a killer unless you're tunneling. There are some exceptions, but those arent the rule. It's like saying seeing Pop and Ruin too often is affecting the fun, when in reality, its the exceptions where those perks are unfun to face.

  • Shaped
    Shaped Member Posts: 5,996
    edited January 2022

    Are you playing at times of the day when the q's are too long for survivor?

    I know some people said they have opposite experience but when the q's are fast I usually get more reliable teammates. And that is during the day and early mornings (eu).

    I am aware that some people can't choose when to play however.

  • NOEDENJOYER
    NOEDENJOYER Member Posts: 237

    As your local Bubba main, I apologise. My race can be unkind at times.

  • DeadArsenal
    DeadArsenal Member Posts: 221

    Yeah let me know when you have to deal with a 4 man squad optimally cycling BT and DS per survivor, flashlighting you every time you pick someone up (good luck avoiding it if they intentionally go down somewhere you can't stare at a wall), and chain bodyblocking hooks. Then tell me how much fun you're having. Tip: You're not going to be having fun.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,987
  • BT and DS certainly affect the game, even more so if it's on every survivor. BT is already a get out of jail card with no activation requirements. A free perk if you will. Unhook a survivor and they will almost likely live. Then multiply that x4 and every survivor will have a decent chance of living after the first hook...

    and then DS ensures that every survivor who does get hooked has a decent chance of not being hooked again...for an entire minute at T3. Multiply that by 4 because you cant hook 4 survivors at once... 4 minutes total game time where a survivor could not be hooked, but that's only if you want to wait out the timer.

    So as a killer in high MMR you're forced to find new survivors immediately, even after 3 gens have popped, and hope for the best

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    I actually have. Here's the results:

    1. hit the unhooked survivor ASAP, give them a 16 second time sink to deal with while you chase the other.
    2. If they dont run away, or mend because they have DS, slug em, give them a 30+second time sink to deal with(or eat the DS if its early in the game, its not that hard).
    3. Fake the pick up. You can do so by standing still and looking down quickly. If there are people they will certainly try to get into position, at which point you try to keep them injured meaning they need to be a further distance away to remain somewhat safe(and silent), giving you a bigger angle for a safe pickup. This makes it so that 1 person cannot succesfully flashlight you without another teammate, which means you're keeping 3 people off gens and injured while the slug timer slowly runs out untill the right oppertunity comes.

    You have the vanilla tools at your disposal, use them.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    "BT is already a get out of jail card with no activation requirements" BT isnt a get out of jail card with no requirement, it's a "punish the (proxy)-camping killer" perk.

    "DS ensures that every survivor who does get hooked has a decent chance of not being hooked again...for an entire minute at T3." False, only if you tunnel them, or if they dont progress the game. In one case, you get punished for tunneling, in the second case, the teammates buy 5 seconds of time by being useless to the team for 60 seconds(or bait you into chasing them, either case, it's healthy).


    "even after 3 gens have popped, and hope for the best"

    The game is balanced towards the killer not being able to protect all gens. 3 gens being lost without you being able to protect them too much, is pretty much done by design. The final 2 generators is when the patrol area of the killer is minimized and their power most useful. Which is why between 2-1 gens, you tend to get 3x as many hooks as you do from 5-2 gens. The generator counter is the survivors' counter to open exit gates, not a timelimit for you to kill survivors. You can kill all 4 survivors before the first gen is popped, or after the last gen has popped. In both cases, you gained 4 kills. Your frustration at generators being done early quite quickly is self-induced.

    How to get over that bias? Grab a spreadsheet, keep track of your results. You would need to see your match history to get over that generator bias.

  • DeadArsenal
    DeadArsenal Member Posts: 221

    If those survivors have that much coordination they only need one person to pop gens in the amount of time I have to expend using those tools. I'm not putting in maximum effort for 1-2 kills at most. I'll play a different game where high skill plus maximum effort results in a win.

  • OpenX
    OpenX Member Posts: 890

    Getting DS'd by full health survivors who run in to bodyblock is definitely still a thing. "Just leave them slugged!" so they can unbreakable after ruining your chase, right

    BT is still used for body blocking habitually and aggressively. "Punish that proxy camping killer" when the survivors can freely just bomb the hook if you don't have a 1 shot.

    And then there is the huge elephant in the room that it's been proven time and time again that camping and tunneling are the only strategies to beat good survivors unless you are playing a top tier killer with a top tier build. Expecting 12 equally distributed hooks out of clown is lunacy when you have maps like "The Game" that exist and honestly I won't even argue over that point because it's been beaten to death.

    Gens are stupid fast, maps are huge and sometimes way too safe. Only a handful of killers can go in and try for 12 hooks without getting slapped (and then BM'd to boot). I personally don't care much since I only run 1 shot killers these days; there is no BT/DS/Unbreakable when people just straight up die on the hooks when you need them to. It's actually the best counter to all of them.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,416

    I used to play solo survivor all the time but stopped when it started feeling like I was playing against 4 other players more often as solo survivor than when I was killer. Killer is more fun because survivors tend to kill eachother for me. 😂

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    Ah yes, because that survivor can finish multiple gens alone in 40 seconds time.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976
    1. Unbreakable is a time sink, slugging is a time sink. You're not really supposed to waste time on a freshly unhooked survivor, if you chased them off hook and spend 50 seconds on them and pick them up, full knowing you were wasting time because of DS that's your fault. Either wait for those survivors to start progressing the game again, slug them very early on and waste minimal time to create a time sink or eat the DS. Not that hard.
    2. Just punch them and thank them for wasting their own time. They need to head to safety to mend up safely before they can safely work on a generator. Meaning that 3 second cooldown on the punch gained you at least 16 seconds of that survivor not being able to do anything untill mended.
    3. Except, it hasnt. Camping and tunneling and actually getting a survivor out early is effective, but overall, its not gonna gain you anything. Camping and tunneling has been proven time and time again, against good survivors, to consistently win survivors the game. And who said anything about 12 hooks?(also, The Game is mechanically balanced, it's just really, really, really, really ######### boring mechanics to the point of frustration. I kept track and I currently have a winrate of about 60% on The Game, including SWF's, including optimal survivors, including games where pallets gained them a ton of value, I have had fun about 10% of the time. It feels unbalanced, when in reality its really ######### boring)
    4. Gens arent fast. You're simply biased that you need to protect generators while killing survivors when that's not the case. You slow down generator progression through trying to kill survivors. Trying to protect generators will more often than not cause you to lose games, while slowing down gens does not. You can have 0 generators remaining 100% of your matches. Gencount doesnt really matter. What matters is how much benefits you gain. Maps arent necessarily too big, it's resource placement(aka, too safe or too dangerous) that's a problem on maps. It's quite hard to place resources in a somewhat fair manner for all killers, since some setups make loops impossible for 1 killer, but easy for 20 of them. Some setups make loops super easy for that same 1 killer, but impossible for 20 of them. You would need to heavily nerf killer abilities, meaning M1 is always the most effective strategy, and then balance all maps towards m1 killers to have fair maps for all. But players have indicated time, and time, and time, and time again for the abilities to be the main aspect of that killer, making it very difficult to balance maps properly.


  • OpenX
    OpenX Member Posts: 890

    Like I said i'm not arguing it. You will never change my opinion since I have thousands of hours in the game and have formed my own. I think BT/DS are fine in their current state for the most part. But to have people in here being like "they only punish campers and tunnelers!" is the same junk people used to say back when it was basically "offensive strike" and was used as 60 seconds of invincibility to do gens in the killers face. They can still be used aggressively in a way that punishes "fair" killers and it vexes me when people swear up and down they cannot.

    And I don't care, because I don't play "fair" and I eat them full well most of the time. Because like I said, it's the only way you are ever winning against competent survivors on a ton of the killer roster. So when I play weaker killers, I know my strategy is tunneling straight from 5 gens and that is that.

    Fact is, 3 gens is 80-100 seconds in any given game. You can waste like 30+ seconds on a single pallet loop against weaker killers with literally nothing they can do about it. And that's AFTER you have actually both located and caught up to a survivor at a loop. That's all the math you ever need. If you can't add it up, that's on you.

    And then you are going to say "the game is meant to be played at the 3-4 gens!" but also simultaneously say "punish those horrible proxy camper killers!" when literally by your own advice your best strategy is to hook in the middle of a 3 gen.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    Yeah, thing is, I believe a lot of the stigma around BT and DS right now are because of their old versions. DS cant really be used offensively without survivors sacrificing progression. You literally cannot do anything useful for 60 seconds as a survivor if you want to use it offensively. Sure, you could provoke a chase, but there are more than 1 survivors to chase in this game. Provoking a chase for 60 seconds against a killer that decides to focus on someone else isnt exactly an offensive use of DS. Hopping in a locker in the basement when there is a survivor hooked there, isnt exactly an offensive use either. You'd just wait for crows to appear and have an entire hookstage for free because you're not camping, you're chasing a survivor who happens to hide in a locker and you refuse to do their bidding. I cant really see DS in any offensive state, except for maybe opening the exit gates.

    I do a lot of math actually, you wouldnt really know, but during that 30+ second chase, it often removes a very strong pallet very early in the game, meaning that survivors can never really use that area again. Since that chase happens in a location where gens arent being done, that means that now there is a generator that has no real protective use, nor a relatively safe way out. Saving you time later in the game.

    "And then you are going to say "the game is meant to be played at the 3-4 gens!" but also simultaneously say "punish those horrible proxy camper killers!" when literally by your own advice your best strategy is to hook in the middle of a 3 gen."

    And this is where you are mistaken. A proxy-camp means you stick around a hook BECAUSE you hooked a survivor there regardless of the generator. You're patrolling that area purely because of a survivor being there and often risking to lose all the generators because of it. Hooking someone in the middle of your patrol area is simply good strategy. You're already patrolling the area and you've added more pressure for survivors to actually enter your area at the cost of a hooktrade at best. You're actively making sure the generators are slowed down while multitasking and quickly picking up a chase after an unhook.

    You cant really tunnel a survivor when there is 2 survivors left, you've literally exhausted your other options. DS wont really change the outcome of the game in any way at that point and it's not worth trying to adjust it because of it. In fact, it's often better for survivors to miss DS since they arent gonna gain enough BP to compensate for the time. Survivors lose all their healing progression when they lose a healthstate, so even if they were at 99%, unless they planned and prepared for such a specific situation(in which case, sure, it's used somewhat offensively, but is it really gonna matter at that moment? Before the hatch changes, sure, it could be the difference between a 2k and a 4k, but nowadays? It's at best the difference between a 3k and a 4k, not really that big of a deal).


    However, one thing I would definitely want to add here is this: Killers absolutely need Fire-Up to be basekit. Killers are fine slowly kicking pallets early game, but late game 1 second can be the difference between being able to break a pallet and catch up before they open the exit gate. Killers lack a minor build up to late game. It's not even much. 20% is fast enough to make the flow of chases much quicker. It allows killers to quickly break a pallet and prevent a gen from being finished. It allows to pick up survivors faster(and thus make flashlight saves harder to time), it allows to actually use window vaults mid-chase late in game since you're faster going through than going around. It's even good at dropping survivors faster and thus reduce the time needed to prevent an unhook from happening. It's easy to add in the tutorial too. Not that hard.

  • TheMadCat
    TheMadCat Member Posts: 2,203

    Thread went from "Solo Q is rough" to "SWF use DS and BT and I don't like it".

  • Not going to slog through a spreadsheet playing at high MMR just to tell you what I already know. Theres a reason people are not enjoying killer right now and theres a reason why survivor queues are getting longer.

    But hey, at least they're nerfing killers now... right?


    Right?

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,726

    It's not too bad when the matchmaking puts 4 equally skilled survivors against a well-matched killer. Problem is matchmaking is still pretty terrible most of the time. Teammate skill varies wildly from survivor to survivor and game to game.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,932

    Honestly I wish I could play at those times because solo at 4am was an absolute blast

  • JoByDaylight
    JoByDaylight Member Posts: 707

    OP's talking about Solo Q and you instantly bring up 4-man sweat squads and "us vs them"-mentality. Really? At least try to stick to the thread.


    Yes, Solo is rough. You can't count on your teammates. They bring killers to you while you are on a gen, they farm you, they leave you. As a solo survivor you absolutely have to watch out for yourself. BT and DS is almost a must atm. 1 survivor F'ing up the symmetry is enough to throw the game vs a decent killer who knows how to apply pressure.

    Last night is a perfect solo story. We where doing great, I ran the killer for 2 gens, then had a flashlight save. Then a few trades, 3rd gen popped. I was about to finnish the 4th gen when this survivor running Bond ran straight to me, bringing the killer with Pop to the gen who was 95% finnished. I got downed right after (I was already injured), the "teammate" tapped the gen and saved me right in the killers face without BT. I go down instantly and the killer gets another pop on the gen. And then repeat - dead. In a matter of like 45 seconds this ONE survivor throws the game away. Ended shortly after in a 4K and 1 gen remaining.

    Not saying this is terrible game at all, it can be much worse - but it truly paints a picture of what the solo q experience is like haha.

  • Interocitor
    Interocitor Member Posts: 187

    When I play survivor it's always solo queue and I haven't found it that frustrating, I escape around 70% of the time while staying at level 6 and only using the perks Kindred and WGLF, I play survivor for the tome challenges and dump the bloodpoints into killers

    I'm still relatively new to the game and particularly survivor after maining killer for about 150 hours, but have escaped over 100 times and got almost all the map specific generator escape achievements and the ones for rescuing 100 survivors/500 skill checks/vault 200 times in chases/etc. in about 60 hours of survivor gameplay. I could just be lucky with the teammates I get and the time of day I play, I get almost instant queue times during the day on the east coast in the US. That being said there are still those games where I get tunneled and then left on the hook but thankfully those games don't happen back to back often

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,731

    Solo is gonna be hard to pull off... cause it's MM with random players whom may be good or may be not so good

  • Shaped
    Shaped Member Posts: 5,996

    Yeah. I rather play killer than surv at 8pm-2am because experience as solo surv is usually bad at those times for me.

  • MrPeanutbutter
    MrPeanutbutter Member Posts: 1,586

    Don’t worry - the devs are buffing solo queue because they listen to survivor feedback. Would be nice if they did the same for killer players

  • TheMadCat
    TheMadCat Member Posts: 2,203
  • MrPeanutbutter
    MrPeanutbutter Member Posts: 1,586

    Oh, you’re one of those who makes assumptions with zero information?

    I play both sides about 50/50

  • km66
    km66 Member Posts: 111

    Yup, I have no problems suiciding on hook anymore. Too many matches where survivors are doing nothing.

  • DeadArsenal
    DeadArsenal Member Posts: 221

    I am sticking to the thread and you'd know that if you bothered to think about what I posted. In the time it takes a Killer to gauge whether they're playing against SWFs or Solos they will have already begun to fall behind. There is no room to be considerate of Survivors that aren't in sweat squads. You realize halfway through the game that you've stonewalled a disjointed group of loners and one or more of them are probably already dead on a hook.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    Guess you dont know that you're wrong tho. Because I bet that your winrates and killrates are at least 50% and 2k on average. Claiming anything less either means you're playing on an MMR that's too high for you, or you're just not realizing your own mistakes.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,489

    I don't anyone on either side is having fun atm.

    And neither side wants to change that.

  • I had consistent 4ks every game until I finally hit high MMR. Not hard to miss.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    So you're playing at too high of an MMR, point proven. You've been playing the same kind of sweaty strategies and perks untill you found opponents that do the same.

  • You're saying that as if it's true... I'm new to the game and barely bought any killers before I stopped playing. I have no sweaty strategies to think of. Trickster was the last killer I bought. I doubt I have any meaningful meta perks to speak of. Maybe if I leveled up Billy, I could get Tinkerer for my other killers...

    but that's not what this is about. Killer perks don't usually make or break the game... it's the survivor perks. The combined effort of stacking survivor perks are what make the game relentless for killers. Meta killer perks won't have any effect on the combination of certain perks in the game.

    So that needs to be fixed before killers can really compete with SWFs at a higher level. If what I'm seeing is true then solo queue survivors won't be affected by this at all because they should all be running their own unique builds anyway.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    It is, if you 4k too much, you're playing too sweaty for your own good and are facing players that are willing to play equally as sweaty.


    As for killer perks making or breaking the game? They literally are the only perks that can. Survivor perks are there to stall for time, Killer perks are there potentially flip the stakes.

    Haunted Grounds can win you the game in 60 seconds time. Noed can finish the game in 30 seconds time. Bloodwarden literally ends the game and is just a 60 second countdown without any counter. Devour Hope flips the switches of the game. Pop can prevent a 3-gen from being broken(especially in combination with Pain Resonance).


    Killers have the power to potentially end the game at any moment, survivors have the power to stall for the time that they need. Sometimes, the power of stalling is unbeatable, sometimes the potential to end the game happens at the start of the game and no amount of stalling is countering that. The perks reflect these abilities.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076
    edited January 2022

    Yes, it can be. But I've also had games where I get 3 randos who are amazing and I get carried.

    That said, it's still 100 times less stressful than playing killer is these days.

  • RiskyKara
    RiskyKara Member Posts: 804

    I have been left to die on first hook over 5 times today.

    This last game there was no reason for that. Only one other person was hooked, there was no noed. I was right there hooked by the exit gate. They just like... left.

    God this really is an FFA.

  • Potential has nothing against the very real strength of combined survivor perks. We can talk about potential until we've run it into the ground but it doesn't hold a leg much less an arm to what is tangible in this game. Yes NOED could help, and so could all of these other perks... but I already mentioned this: they're not going to drastically affect the flow of the game -- unless survivors want them to.

    NOED is a win more perk... Bloodwarden is a win more perk...Devour is a win more perk, and a hex at that...

    I don't think win more perks are going to matter when a lot of your games are going to end with 3-4 survivors still alive. Yes it's entirely possible that you could squeeze out another kill with these... but they're not perks that ultimately help you in the long run. Survivors can even play around Bloodwarden by simply leaving, and the same with NOED...

    I think you severely underestimate the knowledge most good survivors have of this game, and I'd wager most of them are in higher MMR