What can be stopped next to the skin? Pure question.
I am Japanese.
I understood that this suspension of Baba's skin is a measure to stop racism, harassment, spread of hate, etc.
But I have a genuine question.
If that is the case, is it possible that all kinds of characters will be unavailable from DbD at some point?
BHVR seems to be taking steps to stop skins, but the fact that this has happened makes me fear that something will be stopped for some reason in the future, and I'll lose that character I love so much.
Stopping skins does not completely eliminate discrimination, it only reflects discrimination on other subjects, so I imagine a future where everything is banned in a snowball fashion, or am I thinking too much?
Comments
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You're not wrong. This sets a dangerous precedent that a group of players can get cosmetics banned for the entire playerbase. Not just the cosmetics being abused, either: all four Bubba masks are being removed for "equal treatment." But this will only encourage trolls who enjoy ruining other people's fun to pick new cosmetics to use in a harassing manner in the hopes of getting them removed for everyone.
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thats a good point and it should be a thing to worry about, id just prefer bhvr to keep the masks. Im all for decreasing hate and harassment, but as most people said, its not the masks that should be removed it should be the players that should be removed.
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And the worst part is they didn't even bother making their report system worth a flying damn before jumping to that solution
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I've already seen people hypothesize that what if there's a transgender survivor in the future, and then Leatherface's other outfits become used for harrasment purposes. That sounds like a stretch, just to exaggerate Bubba losing his items, but you never know what will happen down the line.
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I warned about this in 2020:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1355409#Comment_1355409
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At this point, everything can happen. We could lose skins, characters, perks, maps, a whole chapter.
Fighting discrimination is good. Racism, Homophobia, Transphobia, hate in general have no place in a video game. But I dont think deleting content is the right way.
I love that Behaviour is fighting against discrimination, its very powerful and I feel safe in dbd.
But.
Loosing content because of some bad people who are a minority is very scary for the future of the game.
I know its not easy but I would have prefer Behaviour saying they are working on a better banning system instead of just deleting skins.
I could see next time Bubba removed from the game because homophobes facecamping people with rainbowflag charm.
Im now scared about loosing things in dbd.
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The current situation reminds me of the situation with WOW and Blizzard. Instead of working on the game, they start deleting various symbols. They follow the path of less resistance. Bhvr does the same. instead of working on the game, the feedback system (!!!) decided to remove Bubba's masks. This is not good and this is just the beginning (
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はい。デモゴルゴンは削除されました。
BHVRはよく意味でも見当違い。 やばい。
静める , 無駄、無理、むだ。
僕は希望BHVR彼らの感覚に来る！
あああああ！www
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So Sad they remove it , this wont stop rascism, while i did not unlocked them bescause i dont play buba that much, i just see BHVR falling in censorsphip's trapp, it's very sad and its just the begining , there will be more and more censorship.
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They might as well remove the Old lady outfit too as its basically a Xross dressing attire and could also cause issue
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This is the only thing that has ever stopped BHVR from making Queer characters. It’s too easy to be a dick to a survivor and I feel like the “Epic gamers” will try to take advantage from it. Best way to make a queer character is to make them a killer to me, don’t really care about how they’ll write the lore (even though it has to play an important part), but a survivor would be too easy to bully for the gamers out there.
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Can anyone point at a skin that could be used maliciously?
Blackface is a literal thing, and the black community have been outspoken on this for a very long time, it has a very long history of being used to mock black people, whether you like it or not racists know black people see this skin as blackface, you may not but they do, and that's fine, it's their history.
There has been no history of people dressing up like old people and murdering and lynching old folks, same goes for murdering and lynching of trans and gay folk, it unfortunately happens but those people dont have a special outfit or makeup they wear for such occasions.
Educate yourself.
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Off-topic. Where does the blackface begin and end? I once read the news that which girl was being attacked when she did the image of a black character from the game that she likes. After all, a person has the right to self-expression, right?
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see conversation about Pretty Lady Bubba when we get a trans or cross-dressing Survivor in the future.
Anything can be used to facilitate and spread hate. That's how ######### humanity is.
However, nuking content should be a last resort. I'd rather have seen BHVR try to update and stream-line their reporting system, develop a match replay system or explore alternative options rather than say "We're getting rid of this free content because .01% of the community abused it to be #########."
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What relevance does this have to dead by daylight?
People's idoicy has no end as has been proven on this forum since the blog post went up, people will and always will attack anyone for anything. However, black people have called this mask black face for years, and the racists know that black people see this mask as black face and use It as a tool to target those people.
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Pulsar, black face is a literal thing that happens, there has never been a history of dressing up like a woman to mock trans people, not to mention we may NEVER get a trans character so what is this argument except a bunch of "what ifs" to argue against AN ACTUAL CURRENT ISSUE.
Besides unless the player is actually racist in end game chat you can't prove its racism and lord knows how people like you would react when behaviour started to log which bubba face you were using at the time of your facecamp of a black character or creator to decide your ban, heck I've already seen people say "guess we can't kill black characters now".
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To quote you: "Can anyone point at a skin that could be used maliciously?"
I do not feel like I can accurately and wholeheartedly debate this topic, mostly due to the rules of this Forum and how stifling they can be, so I'd rather err on the side of caution, I'm sure you understand. However, I would like to quote @thefallenloser here as they are POC and are more capable of making a reasonable argument than I.
"Bl*ckface is an intentional twisted satire. It's a depiction of a racist stereotype of a black person, meant to depict them as less than. Leatherface is quite literally just wearing someone else's face because he's insane. There is no attempt to stereotype. There is no attempt to see them as lesser-- as he does the same to Claudette's white and Asian peers. We can't attribute these negative meanings to everything in the game just because Racist John decided it'd be funny if something that can be vaguely seen as racist is what he wore when he targeted black players-- otherwise we'll get to people clamoring for the removal of a certain killer that can vaguely represent the imagery of a certain racist cult."
Also, thanks for the passive-aggressive callout. But no, I'd fully support a match replay system that could be used to establish a pattern of behavior and ascertain whether or not a report is legitimate. Oh, and we will get a trans character at some point and if we don't I'll riot.
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To be fair, this happened to Baba because lots and lots of people complained. As much as I would normally agree this is a horrible precedent, realistically they just wanted some brownie points and to sell more Leatherface. I doubt this will happen again to be perfectly honest. I genuinely believe this is a one off.
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The whole quote reads as if people are saying LeatherFace is racist, literally nobody is saying that nobody thinks bubba is racist but people are using that skin in a racist way to attack black people.
I'd also like to know which character he is referring to that vaguely represents a racist cult.
And to add to the end, saying we will get something is not the same as us getting something and like I said, no history of people dressing up like women to attack trans people so it just isn't a thing.
I have a trans friend on twitter who is often called very nasty things in end game chat though so here's hoping that gets dealt with.
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I think this has been said already multiple times, but this has nothing to do with the character, the issue is not the character itself, no one really thinks Leatherface is inherently racist, the real issue is the player behind it and their intentions.
The removal of the masks are a way to remove an additional tool that some people used to target and discriminate others, of course players are punished for targeted harassment, however this decision has been taken to prevent the discrimination from happening in the first place.
I think this is a point that a lot of people ignore: you can't punish an action that hasn't happened yet, you can prevent it though and this is aimed at that.
I suggest to speak to those people who have gone through this to understand better why this action had to be taken.
And to be completely honest here, no one is saying a replay system in game would be a bad change, I myself would love to have it, it would make the ACMs and Support team's work way easier, but the main focus of this decision is preventing an issue from happening.
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My problem with your comment is that I really don't think the players behind the hate are actually being punished. You can prevent things from happening with consequences to those actions you don't have to take away something that other people enjoyed innocently to do that either. The problem at large is that DBD has a nearly non-functional report system and it's not just a problem with this situation either this is combined with a fairly useless anti cheat are the reason hacking are such a problem.
I honestly really don't care about the masks themselves and if it makes people who felt targeted by this more comfortable, great I'm completely okay with that but it sets a dangerous precedent that they just removed all the masks when we all know only one of them was being used in a negative way by hateful trolls
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Someone implied it earlier, but I suppose removing just Smartface would have been seen as racist. So I guess they had to remove them all to avoid that pitfall.
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pride charm
Any character that is LGBTQ+
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Pride charm isn't used as a symbol of hate unlike literal black face, it's completely different.
Homophobic people aren't putting the charm on to mock a long history of abuse.
"Any character this is LGBTQ+" Ok are they removing black characters from the game at all I'm confused?
Good try though.
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I mean the players aren't stupid we know what was going on so deleting them all just seems like overkill and seems more like they are just trying to protect their own image more then actually trying to protect their playerbase from abuse.
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The real problem bhvr created is that Bubba who will camp or kill darker colored character from now on will always be linked to racism . Bubba players who legit have no idea whats going on will be targetted with the racist status.
Bhvr took a dangerous path and theres no coming back from it
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So BHVR is Punishing everyone instead of punishing the ones Doing that ... BHVR choose the wrong (easy) way if blackface are a problem remove all black chars will be easier but if you do it ppl will say they need to be represented in the game so where bullshit will stop ? i d prefer you punish the real rascist player with the report system than punish everyone . sure it will be a lot of more work but at the moment i feel cheated by BHVR.
in fact ... BHVR do YOUR JOB instead Punishing Legit Players !
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that's not really how blackface works you know.
I don't support the change, but I do support good arguments and this ain't it chief.
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You're incredibly hyperbolic and irrational, you literally stated earlier that wraith 'should' to be removed (because he's from Nigeria?? and might target blonde haired and blue eyed German, Felix). When have blonde haired, blue eyed people ever been targeted except for the recruitment by the Nazis?
Weird comparison, honestly, really really weird.
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BHVR is fighting harassment by empowering and giving importance to harassers (who probably are feeling very smug right now). They truly suck at balancing everything.
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Black People - We want this removed, it's being used as Blackface against Us
BHVR - We removed it
Forums / Reddit - Well now the harassers got what they wanted
??????
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Should?? i asked WILL. Its the same idea, i could taken a different suggestion, i was pointing out that every view on the situation is subjective.
Edit: You linked blue eyes and blond hair with Nazis, You lost. Heck a reason why i brought this wraith situation in the first place.
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Can you show me the mass atrocities committed by Nigerians against the
-- Checks Notes
Blonde haired, blue eyed germans?
It's very obvious you just absolutely do not care or understand.
Edit to your edit: How did I lose? WHEN have Blonde Haired, Blue Eyes people EVER been targeted by anyone, let alone Nigerians? Why are you saying Nigerians target these people?
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You didn't say white people, you said blonde haired, blue eyed German, Felix.
There are lots of white characters in the game YOU specifically said "Blonde Haired, Blue Eyed GERMAN, Felix"
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I'm closing this here as it's escalating into an argument.
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