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Second chance perks need to be reworked
What is the point of having perks that just save you from poor decision making? NOED and DH are literally just no skill perks that save you when you get outplayed. Well designed perks like deception require you to outplay the killer to get distance and maybe escape him, while there are perks that save you from your own mistakes. Perks should open up new plays, not free ways to get save yourself from bad plays.
Comments
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I wouldn't mind dead hard soo much if it weren't used EVERY game by at least 3 of the 4 survivors. It's easy to bait out, and luckily most people are terrible at managing it properly. Nothing is funnier than watching some potato Dead Hard into a wall.
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Dead hard may feel like a second chance perk but it's really not so much, not saying it's weak by any means but whenever you're in a situation where they use it to get to a pallet or window that's not making a mistake it's calculated because they knew they could get an extra loop out of a tile with dead hard, I see dead hard as a tile preserver because it gives you the ability to have maximum efficiency at one tile without having to continue running and gaining distance so you're preserving other tiles by making one tile last longer than it should, a good example of a second chance perk would be unbreakable or DS , something like it where you DID get outplayed and get a free escape even though in order for the perk to activate you had to get caught by the killer
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I really don't think this is a "second chance" problem, is the thing. Most survivor second chance perks are pretty fair, and all killer second chance perks are very very mediocre.
Dead Hard is basically the only problem and it's a problem because it doesn't have to be a second chance perk- if all it could do was dodge one hit it'd be far more fair, but you can also use it to gain distance and reach a new tile. Both those effects are quite strong, and combined they're too much.
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Jesus. NoED does not 'save you when you get outplayed'.
It's an end game perk, that activates in the end game. It's called 'planning ahead'. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
As for Dead Hard...I honestly think DH should be 2 separate perks:
1 perk dives you distance, but you can be hit if you time it wrong.
1 perk gives you a moment of no hitbox, but you don't dash anywhere.
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What do you “plan” about NOeD? You don’t control anything about it. It could not even activate at all. It activates, or it doesn’t.
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You plan needing the pressure in end game instead of using th at perk slot for early or mid game pressure, or gen regressing.
This bullshit about NoED 'rewarding bad play' or whatever inane drivel people will make up needs to stop, because it's wrong. Full stop.
You can't balance a perk around a false premise, and 'blah blah bad play' or 'rewards failure' or whatever buzzwords Survivors will invent next week are a false premise.
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"Man, I plan to suck all game to get an Insta-Down and a Speedboost, because I cannot run Loops as Killer!"
You dont plan ahead for NOED. No Killer can tell me that they prefer to win after 5 Gens are done and not before. The first goal as Killer should always be to not lose all 5 Gens, followed by not letting the Survivors escape.
Regarding your DH-idea: Perk Number 1 would be the one which would be played, because it would just be "DH for distance", basically before they fixed it, DH had the same purpose and was complained about, because Survivors used it for Distance, which was the only way to use DH.
The second Perk you created would not be used, since iFrames without any distance dont do anything, unless you are directly at a Pallet.
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Not all second chance perks are braindead. Some are actually quite balanced now, i.e. Decisive Strike.
The only problems I have is with Dead Hard and NOED, two perks that need serious re-balancing to make it less dominant and more vulnerable to counter play.
The only way, I repeat, ONLY way to counter the two perks is to:
- Dead Hard - Bait it out.
- NOED - Do Bones.
and both solutions are total ass regardless of whichever side you're on.
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You dont plan ahead for NOED. No Killer can tell me that they prefer to win after 5 Gens are done and not before. The first goal as Killer should always be to not lose all 5 Gens, followed by not letting the Survivors escape.
ANd I try to win before 5 gens pop, but I use NoED on the off-chance I don't. That's what's called 'planning ahead'. I'm using NoED to PLAN FOR the gens popping.
This is why all this inane dribble about 'NoED rewards failure' pisses me off; The Killer has not failed just because all 5 gens popped. 5 gens popping is an arbitrary limit Survivors invented to then claim was the 'flaw' of NoED.
Also; if I can't run loops: NoED won't magically make me better at loops so... 🤷♂️
The second Perk you created would not be used, since iFrames without any distance dont do anything, unless you are directly at a Pallet.
I left out a part; If the Killer hits a Survivor using #2; The Killer gets the attack cooldown animation, which would help the Survivor get away.
Hell, pair it with Sprint Burst, let the Killer hit you, and then Meep Meep away while he's wiping his weapon. Or pair it with Lithe and drop from a high area, or any other speed boost perk.
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There are many second chance perks, but the only one imo that need to go is DH. Extending a chase for another 30 sec or more with just the click of a button without requiring any conditon other than making a mistake (getting injured) its stupid.
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@The_Krapper yea, but there are tons of examples of survivors using it as a free escape card.
1) Dead harding over a trap.
2) Dead hard to save yourself if you get jumpscared.
3) The survivor goes in the open and plays poorly but thanks to dead hard, makes it to a loop.
@AngyKiller lol your comment is ironic, you say "whatever survivors invent next" but you can only defend killers lmao. Also if you cannot pressure gens and down survivors you do not deserve to have an easy down at the end.
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Imagine thinking you can tell me how I can or can not earn downs, or what 'rights' I have based on perks.
I'm going to use NoED more, just to tick off angry Survivor mains who think they can tell me how to play. 😘 I hope they come onto these forums to cry harder over 'unfair NoED' and 'Unearned kills' and 'No right! WHAAAA!'
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Try again. At least, when I said it, it was actual logic and not someone parroting me in a sad attempt to throw my words back at me.
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Another powerless person that needs to feel powerful in a video game. Poor soul
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Honestly both sides are entitled to escape and kills. Literally had someone complained about rancor when you are notified of it. As survivor I had a killer spam inv cause they couldn't mori everyone.
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The developers balance around a 2 kill/2 escape ratio, so the game is balanced in such a way that the gens should get done every single game. Using that logic, bringing NOED isn't planning to lose so much as sacrificing a perk slot for the entire trial to have a power surge when the gens inevitably are completed
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I wonder if you can DH around the corner, because if not then you know you can only dash forward requiring you to position yourself in the correct spot.
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No you can't, in the ptb you could but it was adjusted before release to live servers
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I like NOED thematically if you look at the game as a co-op boss fight it's kind of a final phase right before you get out.
DH just needs to not eat killer powers when they hit and it's fine for it to be in the game.
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Another scrub who needs to belittle people who disagree with them to feel any power. Poor soul.
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If 5 gens popped and all survivors are alive and you "plan on NOED" that literally means you put bad pressure the entire game and got outplayed by the survivors and NOED is your safety raft.
It is literally the last safety raft for the killer and a punishment for survivors that decided not to do bones.
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But I did not get 'outplayed' until the Survivors are not around to be killed.
I repeat; I have not lost, until I can't kill the Survivors. This BS about being 'outplayed' or 'losing' because 5 gens popped is a flat lie.
The Survivors do not win until they are off the map. Until then; I can play, and I can Kill, and that includes using perks that activate after 5 gens pop. Anything else is just Survivors trying to pretend an arbitrary time limit (5 gens popping) means they have won, or the Killer has lost. Then they point at that and go '5 gens popped, so you have BASICALLY lost, and thus NoED is flawed!' And it's wrong.
I repeat: Until Survivors leave the map, the Killer has not 'basically lost' or 'got outplayed'. So any arguments using these BS statements are factually wrong.
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So when someone bring a perk that can give them a boost to make a pallet, that ISN'T planning ahead but NOED is because....?
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I never said it was not. I just said I think it should be 2 perks.
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So you can't protect that totem to enable it for ecg?
How is it different to just farming for vip room?
Or the Freddy block the gate perk?
Or bringing a key?
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Its skillless and you don't deserve the pallet/vault
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Ok sure but lets add this to a few prospects
Dead Hard- Rewards getting hit and comes with i frames thanks to hit validation (just wanted to add this)
Borrowed time- encourages hook swarming and body blocking right of the hook
Decisive strike - Same as borrowed time only include rewards bad locker hiding too.
The biggest problem with second chance perks in my opinion is that they reward survivors for making bad plays and while yes NOED can be seen the same way however since most hex perks suck now thanks to totem placement and most perks are garbage or way too situational nowadays anyway what other choice is there other than just going afk and not even bothering at times.
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