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Dead Hard is a unfair perk and is used on 99,99% of the matches
This perk is at 99,99% in my killer matches. It's extremely frustrating to be absolutely sure you were going to land the hit on the survivor and finally hook him up but suddenly the survivor dodged your hit and managed to get into another safe loop.
Dead Hard is a perk that you only need to be injured to activate. Oh really? Just that? This is considered the strongest Survivors perk and since it was released there has never been a significant change to it. It's ridiculous that the survivor can use this perk, get a considerable distance to a pallet and on top of that be IMMUNE to any hit. If Behavior makes a point of nerfing killers and perks that are being used a lot, why has this perk never been changed?
Comments
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The perk itself is okay. I mean, I agree it's for sure a 'third health state' as people say, and has the ability to extend a chase by minutes if used at the correct time.
I only think DH is really unfair now because of hit validation. It's so ridiculous that the killer gets the 'hit' and has to sit through the cool-down animation while the survivors get a second chance. It's definitely become a clutch perk.
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I just wish it would be more honest and just be a third health state. Reward points for the hit, trigger abilities for a hit, just be a third hit. As it is right now it's just a third hit that bypasses all abilities and forces the hit cooldown on killer.
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We can talk about killers in same way.
Its very frustrating to go against killer who olays like trash whole match, looping him like a baby just to die on very first hook when gate is open due to NOED and facecamping noob.
If you know you encounter dh each match why dont u use perks giving exhaust debuff???
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When Behavior nerfed Ruin, they gave as justification that the perk was used on 80% of killers. Why do they totally ignore Dead Hard?
The game is mediocre for killers, no one can have fun playing killer anymore.
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Most exhaustion perks are OP, to be honest. DH rewards you for making a mistake, playing greedy, or getting outplayed. The amount of time it can extended a chase for if pretty gross, and it can get you out of some situations you normally couldn't, like DH so the unhooked survivor eats the BT hit, out of basement, counters some strong killer powers like Nurse, Blight.
SB lets you turn any unsafe area into a safe one by letting you sit on a gen and be as greedy as possible, with zero fear of the killer, because you know you can just immediately get away. You could care less about proper positioning or anything. And maybe that's the point of these perks, but when they can be used multiple times by multiple survivors, maybe you can start to realize just how strong they are by virtue of just how long they can extend a chase
At least some Exhaust perks have pre-reqs, like Balanced Landing, Head On, Lithe, and they're pretty fair
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Just play killers where dead hard doesnt really matter like the twins most of the time they cant avoid victors pounce with dh.
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Dead Hard serves as a counter to 1-hit downs. No other perk can do this. Everything should have a counter in the game. Slugging is Unbreakable and Exponential. Camping is Borrowed Time. Tunneling-till-dead is Decisive Strike. One-hit downs is Dead Hard.
Maybe there should be some additional One-hit down counters, other than Dead Hard, then Dead Hard wouldn't be used as often.
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Interesting logic.
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You know you can only use DH when you're injured, right?
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I tell people countless of times.
Use Unrelenting. It's the best perk to deal against dead hard.
Or play Bubba with Bamboozle and mind game if you have to.
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That's what I was thinking too, but I guess they mean like not healing after the first hook.
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I suspect Dead Hard is currently overpowered because, now that it's working as intended, it combines two effects both of which could by themselves justify being a perk that would see use: the ability to 100% avoid a hit by reacting to the animation, and the ability to lunge for extra distance during a chase to reach a pallet or vault. The fact that one perk gives you both of these is what makes it so popular and probably makes it too powerful.
As an aside I did a poll last month and asked people if they use Dead Hard currently and, if so, if it gave you either damage immunity OR let you lunge for distance (but you could take damage during the animation) would you still use the perk? Half the respondents said they use Dead Hard regularly, and of those almost all of them said they would still use Dead Hard if it didn't make you immune to damage just for the lunge distance alone. That says something about just how useful that particular effect is, that you could strip the immunity out of Dead Hard and people would still use the perk.
Of course I don't have game data on escape rates among people who use Dead Hard versus those who don't so it's all speculation. There is some data out there showing Dead Hard is the most popular Exhaustion perk by quite a bit, and also is one of the top two or three most popular Survivor perks overall. Popularity itself doesn't necessarily mean it's overpowered of course, but it does probably suggest the perk is worth examining more closely.
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personally, I think dead hard should give invulnerability or distance, but not both.
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Support that opinion bc it is literally true no skill needed to grid all pallets and Windows that perk costed me more rounds than everysingle perk in that game
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Mimimi
Mimimi 🤣
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I guess it counters all those killers out there that try to one shot you when you're injured instead of clicking M1...unless they mean devaluing the One Shot by staying injured...?
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So wait.... Dead hard counters one hit downs... despite needing to be one hit away from being downed to activate.
Did you mean sprint burst?
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Because they literally took it away from every killer except for like a Few...
tis why i loved playing old clown, Get rids of their Exhaustion for free =D,
Needs to be brought back ngl...
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Yeah it's absolutely broken. Everyone learned how to use it for distance, it takes no skill or effort to use.
Imagine if Coup de Grace didn't have charges but a 40 seconds cooldown. Wouldn't that be broken? Because that's literally what dead hard is.
A dash which cannot be avoided.
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Because there's only 2 in the game that do that and they're both trash.
There's:
Blood Echo: Which will only give exhaustion if you are injured when they hook the survivor, but most people will heal before then
Mindbreaker/Fearmonger: Which is only 5 seconds at best so you can easily walk it off before the killer even starts chasing you or by the time you need DH
That's why you can't just "Use exhaustion perks" because they're so weak/niche they basically don't exist.
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I mean, if you play killer for any amount of time you certainly learn how to anticipate DH situations and can often bait out a wasted DH, but you certainly have to play as if everyone has the perk equiped and so even waste some time on those survivors that don't have it.
Its a perk that helps to cover up your mistakes, especially when you are learning how to properly loop, and thats ok, but against a very, very good survivor, its so, so strong. It feels so disheartening if you chase a very, very good survivor, FINALLY catch up to them, you hear them scream, blood everywhere, and then they get validated and just vault away and you are left with nothing to show for your hard work. If you keep chasing it would probably just waste more time and by the time you catch up again, they might have another DH ready, or you break away and swallow that whole mouthful of ash.
What always gets me is that all other exhaustion perks have some sort of activation or trigger condition, where as DH gets its trigger sort of automatically handed to you by just messing up, greeding or whatever, to then be executed at the perfect moment.
As others said, dH combines two very strong effects that both would see use if they were their own perk, but the combination is just a killer. my personal opinion formed from years of playing all sort of games is this: if an option is so good that it becomes a sort of no-brainer/auto-include, unless you are running a certain build, and its pickrate is vastly overshadowing other options in its class, then its probably too strong. You will never get an even distribution of pickrates, and why should you want that, but a disproportionate pickrate can point at problems.
BT, for example, has a similar pickrate, but I wouldn't place it in the same ballpark as DH: BT is used to patch a glaring problem in the base mechanic, ie that tunneling is so effective that especially newer killer players use it so much that you often cant play a normal game without it and I wouldn't mind BT to be baked into the base game, somehow. But DH isn't picked that much because it patches out a problem; its picked because its so strong and versatile.
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It's not ever getting nerfed despite being an absurdly broken perk. Survivors would riot.
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It is always so funny how a survivor looks at me like a sad puppy dog when I ignore them after a dead hard. Nope, you are M1'ing the rest of this game, I can't even look at your "easy-mode" crooked toothed face. I will mind game survivors all day, happily take pallets on the forehead, and wave them goodbye, but the DH'er will sit in the corner doing gens.
To those that think I am unfair. I tried mind gaming the DH, but with 90% of them being a instant-DH hacker that has inhuman reaction times to your swing no matter how random your timing is. Nope, nope, nope, done. DH? Then you don't get chased, period. If you win, good, go cheat someone else.
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Not all killers have exhaust add ons that’s the thing
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Three killers games in a row. One with Myers, Cenobite, and Legion. All three games had at least 3 survivors using dead hard. 3 in the Myers game, 4 in the cenobite game, 4 in the Legion. This perk is overused behind stale at this point. It's gotta be our 80% usage.
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I can understand this but at the same time dh is pretty easy to bait out, though to be fair it’s easier on some killers than most because of animations or perks. But even when you can’t, you can still force them to use it to avoid a hit, then for the rest of the chase they’re exhausted. Push them into unsafe zones and it doesn’t give much distance like sb, so even with dead hard they’re doomed. I don’t think it should work over traps and stuff because that’s definitely isn’t fair though.
But I don’t see how it is much different than 99ing sprint burst. Sb is a little harder to use because it’s not just an activate when needed button, but when you get used to it you can pull off some basically dead hard plays. You can even be healthy with sprint burst and bait the killer into swinging and then get way more distance. When used by good survivors, sb is arguably equal or sometimes better. The big difference is when.
If you only could use dead hard when healthy, or could use it while healthy or injured, I don’t think killers would care that much. At that point it’s basically 99 sb. The fact that you’re injuried and then get a free dodge just seems way more second chancey even though if you were healthy and had dh, you still buy the same amount of time. If sb only worked when you were injuried, I think it would get the same treatment as dh now because it would seem way more second chancey too. If that makes sense? Sorry if how I worded it was weird, my point is that dead hard also seems broken bc when it can be activated is at a vulnerable time. Sb is usually wasted early in chase while you’re still healthy and then when you’re hurt you don’t have it, but if a good player keeps running when injured and sprints away last second when they need the distance then at that point they’re kind of equal. I think if dh was nerfed that would happen anyway.
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That doesn't even make any sense. One-hit downs counter Dead Hard, because you are able to instantly down a healthy survivor and not let them even use dead hard. Do you even know how the perk works?
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I’m not, I have 2k hours in the game. I’ve just seen plenty of matches where good killers have baited a dh and forced survs to use it early, dh into a corner, etc. Especially on killers like demo, huntress, or death slinger. I take back saying it’s pretty easy, I guess it isn’t, but it’s possible and decent killers have done it fairly well in my time playing. Plenty of times dead hards don’t even help and you get downed two seconds later.It’s happened to the best dbd players. Even after it’s been fixed it doesn’t work all the time. But even if we say it’s impossible to bat it out and you can’t counter it no matter what, sb can still extend a chase in the same tile and do the same thing when timed right. It takes more skill, but it’s still possible and thats ACTUALLY easier when you get the hang of it. If you’ve ran from the beginning and have it 99ed either from touching a gen at half way, running, and then finishing it before you have it, or walking to get it back before constantly running, etc, you basically have a dead hard at that point. If you have just a moment of distance you can easily use it to get an extra loop. Just keep running and spinning around so you keep it active until the killer is close enough to want to swing. I’ve done it before when prestiging and not having dh available. I’m not saying dead hard is completely fair and not broken at all, I’m just saying I think it gets a worse rep than sprint burst just because of the limit of when it can be used. It’s only used when you’re vulnerable so killers feel more entitled to the hit. Not in a bad way, I can understand it being a well deserved down and I’d feel entitled to it too if I played killer more. But a sprint burst play can do the exact same thing. Especially if the loop you’re at is better than one you could run to. It might be a wait of distance from sb, but it’s def possible to use it to extend chase in tile.
I think if dead hard got nerfed, we would just see the same similar plays with sb. No negativity or bitterness was in my response, I’ve just played long enough to know that even if dh is broken and gets nerfed survivors would just adapt to the same plays with sb. You said if you ######### up you get hit, but if you’re already injured and have sprint burst ready, you’re probably fine if you’ve got good timing on it.
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I literally have friends that are basically hardcore survivor mains that might play killer like once every six months (so basically just a solid survivor main) and they even agree the perk is busted and needs to be nerfed. (They're a rarity for actually saying it though because if you ask any hardcore survivor main on social media they'll be like "The perk is fine, just bait it out or git gud, you have NOED stop complaining" because NOED is SUCH a good comparison to DH.
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My problem with Dead Hard is not even its effect. Sure it is annoying and most times I do not see a ballsy Dead Hard but a "Dead Hard for distance" or a "I messed up, anyway here is E"-Dead Hard. This makes it very annoying.
I do not mind a good, calculated Dead Hard. Hell, I still have mad respect for that one survivor that Dead Harded through me while I was picking up to get the flashy save. That was a cool play and costed me my only kill that match.
My problem with Dead Hard is that it is everywhere.
But I can offer a solution for that: Make different Exhaustion values. Make different values for different perks to balance them. You do not have to touche Dead Hard more than bumping up its Exhaustion value to 60 seconds. But you could buff Lithe to a 30 seconds and Smash Hit to 20 seconds thus making the perks better. This would also open up the field for future Exhaustion perks...
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It's literally so easy to counter. Just get close but don't hit them, they'll use their dead hard, then hit them. It's that easy.
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all anti exhaustion perks suck so hard lmao
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i dunno what kind of salami heads you've been playing with, but it is never that easy.
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I think you’re the one that doesn’t know how the perk works. Smart survivors will stay injured after their first hook so they have the ability to use DH making the killer’s one-hit ability mostly useless
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Well, if you were a Killer that could make injured survivors healthy again, then you might have a point.
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So Blight? You're talking about Blight right?
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It's a perk that really hurts M1 killers, which is a lot of killers. It can put a lot of killers into power fatigue as well, strong killers like Nurse/Blight for example. Pretty bad feeling to use 5 perfect bounces as a Blight, only to have a DH counter it and you lose your entire power and enter a fatigue. I'd call it broken personally. I don't think a perk that rewards greed or mistakes should have such a low CD, especially when it already resets once placed on a hook.
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Main survivor here!
I only used dead hard when I was getting David's adept.
I try not to use any exhaustion perks to help me learn how to loop properly.
Not that it goes any well, but it makes me feel better about dying lol
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It works every time for me, I just get close, they dead hard, then I get close again and whack em
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No. It's not okay. A free second chance with no earning requirement that has that much of an effect on the game is never okay.
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Camping has a counter. It's called borrowed time, or doing gens, or, you know, not getting caught with the amount of free second chances survivors have. NOED also has a counter. Maps, and MULTIPLE perks that help combat totems. It can be removed before it even exists.
Give me a totem to destroy that removes dead hard before it can even be used, then you'll have a relevant and coherent argument.
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Fearmonger is always pissing me off. This is why I stopped using exhaust perks. It does not goes down wheb you run so you have to have tine to walk when you get suprised by doing gen.
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Well there's a work around.... LEAVE THE TRIAL
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*E
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Why are you even in a game with such a killer then? MMR clearly failed there. NOED is the great equalizer, without it there'd be nothing that killer could do. You think they consider it fair to play against survivors who shouldn't even be in the same lobby to begin with?
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99.9% is fair, get back to me when it gets used 100% of the time and then we can talk.
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It's hilarious how many survivors are hard carried by Dead Hard and Iron Will. I've noticed nowadays that even the most potato survivors in the world are all running Dead Hard. I'm talking about the ones that ignore the god pallets to run along the outside of the map where there's only a z-wall. These survivors even run Dead Hard lmao
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If the survivor is about to reach a pallet or window that "counter" doesn't work, that "counter" only work when chasing a survivor in the open which happen 2/10 times. The perk is used for reaching pallets and windows, it can extend the chase for 30 seconds or even a minute more if the pallet was a safe pallet or the window is in a strong building like the shack, maybe even the T walls if they're connected to another pallet or jungle gym, the perk is also used frequently for running around a loop one time more by using Dead Hard for reaching and dropping the pallet.
Seriosly, the people who mention that "counter" don't play killer and are also bad survivor, because they don't know that perk can be used for extending chases.
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Show us the data proving Dead Hard is overperforming other exhaustion perks by extending chases longer than other exhaustion perks do.
Otherwise you don't have proof.
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