I don't have a problem with boons
When I play killer and I see boons i don't get mad...
Is it just me?
Cause the more they put down boons is less time on gens
less time on gens
better chance for me to get hooks
Which equals win for me.
Edit: while thinking about it a good fix for boons is only one boon can be placed at a time and when a killer kicks the boon the totem is broken
Comments
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I have a problem with COH, it negates injuries as you cant really afford to just drop chase as they can just undo your injure so you lose pressure constantly as killer. You are often forced into a lose/lose scenario where you really need to not drop chase or they will just heal with a boon but they can run you to a strong area of the map or away from gens etc... so either way you lose.
Also it is providing their team mates with a free 5th perk of Self Care and super speedy group heals and it can be done so infinitely.
It doesn't matter if you can stomp them out in a second as every second counts for killer and it can mean the difference between dropping an active chase or stomping a boon. The only time it makes sense is if you down a survivor next to a totem otherwise it just isn't worth going out of your way to stomp a boon, since one will be back up right away anyway and you do so at the expense of pressure.
So yeah, I do have a BIG problem with boons and COH in particular. It is broken and very unfair
(edit: the only time it can work in your favour is if they place a boon you can easily stomp and they keep doing it over and over, or they boon your hexes)
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I understand what you're saying but the chance of survivor being near they're boons while being chased are 1/5% chance
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I do not get your point?
That is the entire point I am making, if they are not near a boon there is literally no point going out of your way to stomp it. So they can just constantly return to that boon for infinite free heals - a 5th perk.
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14s down on gens and potential of few minutes saved on healing entire game?
I guess if your survivors put it on obvious spots and re blessing them entire game, no reason for you to have a problem with that.
Problem is when boons are used by swf or by survivors with brain
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I have a question for you then when you hit a survivor and a boon is up and the survivor is running toward the best loop in the map are you going to leave him be and find someone else or are you going to commit even if you know the survivor may waste 40 second of your time?
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Boons, as a perk group and mechanic, are completely fine.
It's coh that's broken.
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It basically negates certain playstyles like hit & run and killers which rely on having people injured most of the time like Wraith, it also made perks like Sloppy or Nurses Calling much worse.
The heal speed is way too fast imo and the blessing time is nothing compared to the value survivors get out of it once it's there. There were games where i healed like 7 times on a single boon totem.
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5th perk?? Isn't it literally apart of the 4 perk slots if you choose to run it?
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Boons as a whole are balanced, but CoH is the second most overpowered Perk in the game, almost taking Dead Hard's spot
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Exactly. Some don't seem to get how COH puts you a position as killer where it is a lose/lose scenario. Either take a chase that could lose you the game, or let them get a free heal in seconds and your injure means nothing
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You give your team mates a free 5th perk of infinite free and super fast heals that undo killers pressure in seconds
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Yeah that why i ask my question that my issue with the perk. Im curious about the guy answer but i dont believe he can answer this in a way that make the killer look good because like you said its a lose/lose scenario for the killer.
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I see what you mean now, I thought you meant 5th on the person who is using it. Although does that mean that all surv perks that effect others are also technically 5th perks? Like kindred or vigil for example? Not tryna be incendiary here or anything I just wanna get on the same page
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I'm pretty sure every time everyone says Boon totems are problematic, they're specifically referring to Circle of Healing. I've never seen anyone complain about Shadowstep or Exponential. Boons as a concept are fine, cause as you said, that's time that survivors aren't doing generators.
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I have a problem with boons working on multiple floors, especially on rpcd with how it's designed.
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I agree on that one alot it should only be one floor
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This is Groaning Storehouse, with possible Gen & Totem spawn:
This is Groaning Storehouse, with 3 Gen around the Boon Coh completed.
The red area shows the zone that Killer patrol around, since 3 Gens on the right are done, the Killer will never set his feet on the whole area around Boon Coh.
Do you see the problem yet?
14sec to exchange 8sec for every single heal. The last time I saw a BoonCoh near a completed Gen, Im alone could self heal 4 times. Alone me, save 28sec. There are other 3 survivors.
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This does such a great job at highlighting the issue - sure it only takes a second for the actual stomping out of the boon but how long to get there and how much pressure is lost doing so? Why would any killer follow a survivor to a pointless part of the map, let alone a totem?
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OP clearly hasn't played against a bodyblocker SWF with a boon setup where there are no gens. They just run in and interrupt your chase with someone to block you then run and heal in 4 seconds with their juiced Medkit because healing speeds stack for some silly reason. It's actually obnoxious. You also can't do a 3-gen strategy any more because of the fact that they can just run and heal at the boon. If you chase them, they do the gen and you lose. If you stay at the gen, you eventually lose because they heal faster than the gen regresses.
Circle of Healing takes somewhat killer-sided maps like Dead Dawg and actually makes them survivor sided because of that. Slap a boon in the Saloon and the killer has zero hope of ever winning with a 3-gen against competent survivors
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Yeah boons are not as strong as I thought they would be.
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I have no issue with this as long as it applies to everything. I shouldn't hear your terror radius if I'm on a different floor. You shouldn't be able to see me a survivor with BBQ if they're on a different floor. Doc's shock shouldn't affect me on a different floor.
I mean if we're going to commit to something based on a certain radius not affecting people based on elevation, we gotta commit and go all the way.
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I also didn't have that much issue with boons. Still don't really.
It wasen't untill i played with them that i saw how busted CoH is. There are a lot of survivors that don't utilise them properly.
I can't count how often i downed someone next to their boon, they see me snuff it to then instantly run back to that exact totem after getting unhooked to rebless it and give me another easy down.
Sometimes the same survivor multiple times in a match.
Or how the last gen is at 80 or so procent and they prioritise blessing their boon over it while i am decimating their teammates.
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That's the point, it's like self care for the other 3 people that didn't bring COH
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That is limited to a specific area and requires Survivors to disengage whatever they are doing to run over there to heal and then return to their original location to finish up. As a Survivor I don't like seeing them because they waste time a lot.
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COH is overpowered
Shadow step is overpowered on certain maps, which is more an issue with map design
Exponential is fine
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It's not necessarily a loss if a survivor runs to an empty part of the map. For instance if you have a decent 3-4 gen scenario... you would be crazy to give that up as a killer. The minute you run too far you could lose 2 of those gens in a chase, thanks to meta perks. So dropping that chase is immediately a net gain or a stalemate because you wont lose your gen setup. Remember you're playing for kills.
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The problem with your logic as a whole is that you're acting like healing as much as you want is fine and it's not, to put the boon up and heal takes the exact same amount of time as self caring and if it stays up and people feel safe resetting you waste more time healing than if you just ran adrenaline and gen rushed, good survivors don't run COH because they're good enough in a chase to not need the reset and they know that healing is a waste of time. I'm not saying circle of healing is weak but it's absolutely overrated and good survivors don't even need it to end the match faster.
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The problem is people think that the time it takes to find a totem/put down a Boon, even it's multiple times, justifies the pressure the killer loses from it existing. Spoiler alert: It doesn't, and that's why people say it's too strong. If you can't understand a thing that plenty of high level killer players have stated and explained, whether in streams or on Youtube, then it seems you simply don't want to admit to something.
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The perk literally stalls the game and gives the killer a hand because people who are bad in chase keep resetting and good survivors don't run COH they don't have to it's literally a time staller that takes what would've been a 5 minute match into a 10 minute match , sure it's aggravating as a killer when you get people that play that way but it doesn't benefit them it benefits you by giving more time to catch them, COH is a good perk for a bad survivor who is scared to be injured on a gen , good survivors will run perks like iron will dead hard adrenaline and resilience/spine chill and they will just gen rush you to adrenaline they for sure aren't gonna hunt for a totem and waste time blessing and healing before they focus gens
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I think the only argument that could be made about COH that favors the killer is when COH exists survivors are more comfortable healing instead of gen-rushing. This creates a longer game and gives the killer more time to snowball.
But let's not forget WHY they feel more comfortable healing instead of gen-rushing. It's because the perk is so damn safe to use that the cost/benefit analysis is easy enough for a potato to do. This is why in lower ranks COH causes more survivor losses, but once you get survivors that understand looping, immersion, and map pressure COH allows them to dismantle all killer strats except tunneling.
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But a good survivor won't waste time by looking for a totem, blessing , then healing that all together will actually take you longer than self care , once a boon is up sure it can save time for bad survivors who always reset anyway but for a good survivor it's pretty useless unless you've got a endgame camping situation and need to reset fast, the gens can be done in less than five minutes and before someone says "but that's not fun!" And holding the exact same button in a different situation is? At least the gens get you out alive and don't drag out the match longer , it's literally impossible to use COH and have faster games than survivors who genrush without worrying about healing.
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If we could delete Shadowstep I'd probably be fine.
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This thread makes it so easy to see the survivors who have never played killer
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Why just because someone disagrees with you? I have played killer since day one on this game and I don't agree that circle of healing is broken, I personally as a killer feel like gen speeds and survivors splitting on gens is way more broken than a perk that stalls the game every time you use it , you literally can't put it into play even without stalling, the whole reason they created circle of healing was to make survivors feel safe to heal because all the top tier players were genrushing with adrenaline and until they fix gen speeds or add a real objective gen speeds are always gonna be the most OP thing a survivor has in their favor
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Boons create free map pressure for survivors, especially CoH. If a boon is placed nowhere near any active gens, they have created a zone of map that is both fortified in their favor, AND has zero objective for you to pressure. They basically create the killer side equivalent of what a dead zone is to survivor. If the killer continues chasing them there or finds and puts out the boon, they have wasted map pressure that most of them desperately need.
Technically you don't even need boons in place to create this scenario: If someone is on hook and other survivors are injured, you could get into a chase on purpose and lead the killer away from the hook long enough for both the save and healing. Boons let survivors create that lose/lose scenario for zero risk though, either they go to the boon and lose pressure on objectives, or they ignore the boon and lose injury pressure while everyone self cares for free without even needing the perk.
Its crazy how much people underestimate map pressure, especially on the survivor side. Understanding it and being able to erode a killer's pressure feels like the strongest way to climb right now, and tools like CoH make it easier than ever.
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In particular this applies to the "territorial" killers like Trapper & Hag who set up a protected zone but then have to trudge halfway across the map to snuff a boon then trudge back...
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Honestly, any killer that doesn't have very good full map pressure, or an instadown. Even killers like Billy are affected by it now that he has overheat on his power. At least with Plague it feels like they wasted a perk slot.
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You seem to be ignoring the fact that using a COH boon gives your 3 other team mates a free 5th perk of being able to heal themselves infinitely. They can also group heal at lightning speeds so injuring has no pressure at all as they can just undo your work in seconds.
Of course if someone wastes a lot of time re-blessing totems over and over then it is a detriment but there are plenty of other locations that are not convenient for the killer to deal with it (please see post with map example)
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You have added a 3 gen to strawman my argument - if you have a 3 gen you have already forced your opponent into a match losing error in many cases.
However what COH provides in reality is usually a dead zone for killer that you simply cannot afford to continue pursuit into. You lose all pressure either way as your injure is undone and you no longer have a survivor pressured. As I already stated, the only boon worth stomping is one right next to someone you just downed (or hooked) or even if you are just patrolling gens. But going out of your way to get one is usually just a big waste of your time.
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I told you why it's not a lose/lose situation because you cant afford to waste time chasing survivors in dead zones. Agreeing with you and trying to explain that it's not a loss if you do give up the chase. Reason being survivors have one primary objective in this game -- generators. You are better off patrolling unfinished gens which deserve more of your time and will often give better results. Again...agreeing with you that hunting totems and survivors in dead zones is a moot point. But reiterating to some degree that you are not at a loss because you have to drop a chase like that.
Post edited by throwaway79465468797 on0 -
Yea but you're missing the whole point, why would you spend all that time resetting? It's literally there just to make you feel safe resetting when you should be focused on escaping in no scenario is healing gonna help you survive faster than rushing gens, you're trading health states for map safety at that point because while you're healing someone is occupying the killer , and the only scenario where two survivors are gonna heal you at once is in endgame or if you're swf telling them to come heal you in which they have to sacrifice gens in order to make it happen it's ok if we disagree you're entitled to your opinion COH isn't a bad perk but in my opinion only bad survivors use it because they aren't good enough at chases to stay injured while focusing gens.
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I have no clue what you're going for here. I didn't write my comment directed at anything you said in particular. I was setting the record straight for people who didn't have a finer grasp of the cost/benefits of COH.
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Its not really that big of a time sink though to bless a totem.
Boons overall aren't that bad an idea its just they were implemented in a ham-fisted way.
Basically hexes are strong, they are high risk high reward and once they are gone... they are gone.
Boons are high reward relatively little to no risk because you can just keep relighting them indefinitely. They also benefit the entire team so you basically give a 5th/6th perk effect to your team mates by running them.
CoH is the main problem because it means you either continually commit to even bad chases or drop chase and lose all pressure in seconds because everyone has self healing. Its kind of a lose/lose.
I mean hex undying and ruin combo was nerfed into the ground because of its great synergy when first released and it didn't take that long for it to be changed. Boons require no synergy at all and should probably get the same treatment, either a long cooldown or limited use via tokens.
Time is often a much bigger crunch for the killer so the time to bless totems isn't really equivalent to the time to snuff them, especially when you add in the janky collision that can often take 1-2 goes to line yourself up properly and get the prompt.
All this kind of reeks of poorly thought out design in need of at least some changes.
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Sorry I meant to quote someone else. I fixed it now... not even sure how that happened 😄
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This is kinda true, but COH now creates the scenario where everyone still runs their chase extending adrenalin builds but one person has COH, so if the game does start to snowball its really easy, and quick, to reset and have 4x fully healed survivors at 1-2 gens left.
Unless you are a high mobility killer or have an insta down its an uphill battle at that point.
I don't think the time sink is enough to really benefit the killer unless they are already applying great pressure on the survivors in which case CoH probably isn't going to do much anyway. The moment for any reason you take your foot off the gas as killer though it has a really big impact disproportionate to the cost of bringing it.
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I know that this discuss is tending towards CoH right now, but I would like to add my small little piece: This may turn out to be something I stop doing eventually, but for now I enjoy using Bloodhound if I see a Mikaela join the lobby. They don't always run Shadow Step or even a Boon at all, but it is nice to not have to focus so hard on blood and the survivors' movements if there is a Shadow Step in play.
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I actually just had a match on Lery's last night that basically enforced my argument. We had a Wraith who was dominating people in chase, had great map pressure, knew when to break off and when to keep chases going, my teammates usually going down after only getting 1-2 windows or pallets. He even secured a 3 gen.
He lost badly because we had two CoH boons in opposite corners of the map, away from the gens. He couldn't afford to go to the totems to put them out, and he couldn't afford to chase any of us away from where the gens were.
He got a 1k because he facecamped after the gates opened. Meanwhile the 3 of us that survived had over 30k BP scores. It was a fun game, but the killer absolutely deserved the win and was kinda robbed.
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When Circle of Healing is up, the other three Survivors effectively have 6 perks: The four they decided to bring, We'll Make It, and Self Care.
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