Why is toy sword for twins getting nerfed
It was the only way to really be able to hit people with victor who would continually circle around objects because the charge isn't fast enough. Now it's even harder with the nerf
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Because survivor is good and killer is bad.
That's the BHVR logic.
Can't blame them tbh as they want to keep the majority of the playerbase happy so they will buy more survivor cosmetics ๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
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I have a theory, Twins excel at camping and slugging and are generally just horrible to play against, so they are just making them as unviable as possible so nobody plays them because they cant outright remove them altogether.
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The nerf barelly even does anything.
it's like 0.05 seconds less charge time. How often is that going to matter?
It's so pointless of a nerf that i really wonder why they bothered.
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All those Mini Nerfs were filler changes so that they can say they did something.
This midchapter is pathetic and bad for being a "huge" balance update. The last one was really good, but this one proved their lazyness again.
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My point is its already hard enough with toy sword to cut corners to hit people circling and it nerfing it just makes it harder.Half the time I just leave them
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Idk. It sounds like tinto put a lot of time into nurse. I'm not a codrecodguy but I imagine recoding an entire kiler would take some time.
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I never understand the assumption the devs are survivor sided. Theyโve nerfed plenty of things that benefit survivors.
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Because most things they nerf really dont get affected all that much. What boons got a change to be -4 meters to their radius and ds finally getting nerfed after years? Wheres the dh nerf if they pay attention to most used perks....
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The Twins are the new pig, I see your pfp so my condolences for what your going to endure.
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Those were bug fixes. Mid Chapters are supposed to be huge balance overhauls.
Also, I'd imagine the bugfix team are different people as the balance team. But balance has been poor since the beginning so I'd imagine they have no idea how to balance the game properly.
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Ah yes, nerf twins... a killer no one plays as because of how terrible and unrewarding it is. Let's face it, twins need a rework.
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I mean...why not? I feel that's what the devs ask themselves.
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That nerf is a 20% nerf so saying that change nothing is a lie. That single change in number is the diffence between a hit around a corner or a miss.
Btw lets nerf BT by 20% just to see the reaction of the player.
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Presumably because it's always been way too powerful for a brown and is easily their single best addon with barely any competition.
That's not to say it's a good choice, I don't agree with it in the slightest, but I think at least some people are being a little disingenuous when they make it out to be random or completely lacking in logic. It was always an addon that probably needed nerfing- just not before the Twins get a lot more love in the basekit and addon department, doing it now is far too soon.
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If it's so irrelevant then why do it in the first place?
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Because they do things like nerf twins, clown, nemesis and then buff survivor wiggle in the same patch, while not dealing with problem perks people complain about, and instead discussing how they'll make solo survivor super strong before buffing killer.
Optics matter and when you do stuff like that, it paints some bad optics. When you have a patch nerfing a D tier killer and NOT nerfing COH or DH, and also buffing an entire survivor mechanic, people are going to notice and they're going to start feeling the devs are one sided. The only other way I can interpret the latest patch besides "devs are blatantly survivor sided" is "devs are so out of touch that people with 20 hours know more about the game than them."
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It's their best add-on because 97% of the rest are terrible and useless. What's the point of add-ons if they do nothing. Twins have like 3 or 4 Hemorrage add-ons....without mangled. Who the ######### would use that when Vik has bloodhound built in? Just because it's used most does not mean it's OP or needs nerfed it means the rest are utterly ######### garbage. This logic seems to be missed by the devs and half the player base.
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This is very well said, the problem isn't that the game is any one sided, it's the lack of consistency in logic (typically favoring survivors) when balancing.
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Not quite- it's their best because a huge portion of their addons aren't very good AND because the Toy Sword provides insane value for a brown.
I don't agree with their decision, I'd rather have made Toy Sword a higher rarity to account for how incredibly good it is (alongside a suite of other changes), but it's a complete misunderstanding of the situation to claim that it wasn't an absurdly strong brown tier addon.
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What's insane about it? If the rest of there add-ons were at least slightly useful....it would be ran less. It's truly that simple. When there are only a few (at best) useful add-ons on a killer they are going to be over used.
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I heartily disagree. I've played Twins, I know how impactful the Toy Sword is. It is quite simply far too strong to be a brown, it's a green tier at minimum.
This is not a case of the addon just being overused, the addon is also very strong.
Though again, I don't agree with this decision. Toy Sword is very strong, but it's not problematically strong in the way that, say, Redhead's Pinky Finger is, so it doesn't warrant this kind of attention before Twins get more love in general.
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I'll tell you what the 95% likely answer is - and you aren't going to like it.
BHVR changed it because it was used far more commonly than other Twins addons. Ditto Marvin's Blood on Nemesis, and I'd wager dollars to donuts that a certain Artist brown is going to get nerfed in 6.0 for the same reason. Not because these addons are too strong - but because the other addons aren't all that attractive, or it gives a huge QOL boost leading to it being chosen more by experienced players, which would also correlate with a higher kill rate.
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But they didn't make it a green. They nerfed a brown add-on (one of maybe 3 useable add-ons on them) because it removes a half second of charge time that right now is needed. This is not 2 years ago where half (or more) of the survivor base is brain dead bots. Aside from new survivor majority knows to park on gens when not being chased and while being chased Hold W, Pre-drop, or if they can loop the lips off the killer.
I have no squabbles with you...your opinion is valid I just can't wrap my head around the audacity of nerfing a rarely used killers brown add-on.
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Mm yes, survivor good, killer bad. That's why they nerfed a mediocre Twins addon instead of Alchemist Ring or MDR or DCR or Compound 33 or Rusty Shackles.
This is the only explanation.
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Sounds like we agree, then. It's not a good decision but it's one with very clear, obvious logic behind it.
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1 i was just sarcastic
2 take a look at a lot of patches and you'll see the nerfs ar mostly aimed at killer and if the get an buff then that is such minor changes that is barely changing anything.
If the get a buff that will make a killer a bit better and viable then you can bet you ass it be nerfed soon after, ๐ looking at wraith.
3 there is a q&a where they made a comment they were gonna change the doctor because they hated to play against them ๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
They brought it upon themselves a big portion of the community feels they are survivor sided.
And you can also see buy the amount of cosmetics they push out for the most played survivors while killers get far less.
Anyways, that is my opinion and I'm not gonna keep going into that as the only people who can change my mind are the devs themselves. โ๏ธ
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So long as SWF remains as it is, the devs will always be survivor sided.
To OP, my assumption is that because Toy Sword is the most used Twins addon, they nerfed it. Remember, 'most used' only applies to killers, though, so even if the addon is required to make a low tier killer slightly manageable, it'll be nerfed.
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I don't think they want brown addons to be that strong. But instead of nerf they should have made it green or yellow.
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See my last comment mate โ๏ธ๐
Btw compound 33 has been nerfed, just so you know (both of them actually)
and believe me alchemist ring is on their agenda don't worry.
About mdr and dcr, i have no freaking idea what you mean by that ๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
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This is covered by the last part of my post. Either they are survivor sided or greatly out of touch. The fact they nerf toy sword but NOT Alchemist ring is indeed further evidence they are comically out of touch. I don't feel alchemist ring needs some big nerf, but the fact they don't nerf an add on everyone complains about, but nerf 3 or more add ons NO ONE COMPLAINS ABOUT shows they're out of touch or they care so little about the player bases feeling of the game that they're just going to do whatever they're gonna do.
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because they dont know what theyre doing
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Because the usage rates for Toy Sword is almost certainly ridiculously high but they didn't take a step back and ask why they were so high.
Let's be honest, Twins without Toy Sword is a lot like prebuff Trapper (when he could only carry 1 trap at a time) without a bag. Sure you can do it... but it is clunky, obnoxious, and just overall going to be a terrible experience for you if you try it. A brown add on is pretty easy to get your hands on and run every single game... so naturally Twins players are going to do that as much as possible because it makes using Victor not absolutely terrible. For some reason, the devs didn't understand why players were doing that. I'm assuming they just saw the raw stats and were like "This add on is over performing. Nerf it." and didn't realize why it was in nearly every Twins game.
Short answer... short sightedness.
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I've said it several times. This is why they need to stop trying to use statistics as their end all be all, because their understanding of statistics is about on par with a 75 year old grandma on facebook. They look at the numbers and just make a blanket "must be op/weak!" off of that. They never do one of the most important things, which you mention in the first sentence. WHY is it like that. They don't ever ask "why?" they just seem to operate on an almost robotic "OP or not OP" scale based on usage. They do not at all try to understand why the numbers show what they show.
This games balance is an example of why using statistics when you don't understand them can be extremely harmful.
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It's taken approximately 3 years for them to fix those bugs (if indeed they're all fixed - we won't really be able to tell until it's live).
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oh boy you have no idea of how important those 0.5s are...
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you don't need to fix twins if nobody plays twins
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The rate that they're going, i would just give Charlotte a power rework with possible secondary power and create new addons around that.
Think i'd much rather have a rework where Charlotte and Victor work in sync like Ferra / Torr do from MK X.
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3 there is a q&a where they made a comment they were gonna change the doctor because they hated to play against them ๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
what Q&A was that? Really curious to read/hear it
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Not saying this is factual but I believe they said something about that around the time they reworked doctor.
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For the same reason that Flask Of Bleach for Clown got nerfed. No reason at all.
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To highlight their lack of interest toward the Twins.
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Because for some reason bhvr thinks taking 0.05 off toy sword will mean people will finally use sewer sludge an add-on that is actively detrimental to you.
Instead of asking what is happening bhvr really needs to start asking why is something happening but who knows if that will ever happen.
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^^^^^^^^^^^
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I think they legit want people to not play twins without directly saying it.
They want them forgotten.
you wont have to balance a killer if no one plays them
EVERY SINGLE UPDATE in forever has had a direct or indirect nerfs to twins.
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Its a nerf of 0,5 sec, dont need to exaggurate. Its not like Twins is going to be unplayeble.
Also I am currently playing a lot of twins without the addon to test it out and I dont struggle at all, I dont even feel a big difference tbh.
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That's what I'm saying. I don't understand
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If that was the case i would agree with you.
It isn't though. It's 0.05 seconds.
If they shadownerfed it nobody would see the difference
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Because the "Stats" told the balance devs that addon is "overused" so it gets a nerf.
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This why it's important to actually look at the numbers and not blindly at procentages.
Removing 20% of BT means 3 seconds less, that 12m of distance the survivor can make less.
The toy sword nerf is 0.2m...
Try buffing Lickers tongue from nemesis 20%. It still won't do anything
Chances are that if you play twins exactly the same as before and don't pay attention to the progress bar you won't feel the nerf cause the act of clicking M1 takes longer then 0.05 seconds
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Its the same losing that 0.05 can be the difference between getting validated or not or just hitting a survivor who run around a rock or tree.
The only reason the number are bigger in my example its because BT is 12 second instead of 0.25. The perk getting nerf by 20% can make the difference between the survivor making it to the pallet or not.
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