Why does everyone hate noed?
Seriously? With all the second chance perks survivors crutch on, including CoH, gen speeds, and the fact that hex builds itself are super bad purely cause of the CoH meta; why does everyone feel like noed is horrible?
Honestly I feel like this is the most extreme case of double standards. While I understand the whole "camp and noed" issue but with how bad sbmm is, noed helps the killer put pressure in the end game and not just give survivors free escapes if/when gens are done. The game isnt over until you escape.
As i pointed out earlier, with all the second chance perks survivor gets, why do we hate the only second chance killer perk?
This thread is a disccusion on why we should hate noed. Not an us vs them. While i understand the hate about whataboutism, pls keep your points about noed, but if you need to use other perks as an example, its understandable. And pls keep it civil. I generally wanna hear reasons why noed is bad.
Also pls dont say "it rewards bad gameplay" because we can all think of several perks that can say the same thing but the community doesn't hate them nearly as much, and that would just start promoting whataboutism.
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It's because it rewards bad gameplay, and people ABSOLUTELY do complain about that on survivors as well. In fact, search "dh" or "dead hard" and you'll see an endless amount of topics talking about how it rewards getting hit and requiring no skill. NOED complaints are just the same thing from the other side. It feels bad to lose because you one and someone was rewarded for your victory.
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Removes survivor agency.
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People don't like finding out they're exposed the hard way.
"I can make it to the X, I'm healthy, I can take an M1-- oh, nevermind."
You can't know you're exposed until it's too late, so it feels like you just got robbed.
And I don't know what you're smoking, people can't stop complaining about Survivor "second chance" perks.
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I think the "It rewards bad gameplay" argument is very suiting for noed
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Here we go the rewards bad gameplay post. Lets begin.
BT promotes bad gameplay. It rewards survivors for an unsafe unhook.
Selfcare promotes bad gameplay. It literally wastes time when you could be doing gens
Technician promotes bad gameplay. Why learn skill checks on gens?
Spinechill promotes bad gameplay. Why worry about stealth killers when you can literally just have the greatest lead going now?
Do you understand why i didnt want "it rewards bad gameplay" as an argument. The same thing can be said by a lot of perks. and I literally can keep going. =T I can even add more killer perks too.
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Similar to it rewards bad game play, but it does skew mmr. Sbmm already has issues but a killer that shouldn't get 1 kill then gets 2 or 3 from NOED messes up mmr. NOED becomes more of a crutch as mmr rises when it shouldn't. Its a poorly designed perk and should be changed
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You can keep goping on, people constantly do. You're asking why no one likes NOED but not other perks yet you're being deliberately ignorant about the fact that people complain about every playstyle and every perk that exists in every way on this forum. Everything you can think of people complain about it, and hypocritically as well. That's just human nature, you might as well ask why people piss in the bathroom and cook in the kitchen, it's just the way it is.
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Okay you know what, i will give you the whole "They dont like finding out they're exposed the hard way." And i appreciate an actual original complaint. And I actually have no answer for it that isnt "well thats the thing about all hex perks right? You dont know its there until its too late minus ruin." And to me that sounds like a lazy argument on my point. Thank you for that.
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Can you elaborate for me please?
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Yup yup.
I don't particularly care about NOED, but I can see why people run it and why people don't like it.
Personally, I think it and a lot of other dumb perks (like Dead Hard) would be better changed to be more interactive with a reasonable level of strength. And so people would shut the hell up already.
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Noed has the same problem as old DS or Mettle of Men, it gives you something without even doing something for it. Its a lazy perk which requires no thought or effort at all. Also it encourages boing gameplay where the killer doesnt even try to protect the gens and relys on noed to get his kills by just camping or tunneling.
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They do, but not nearly as universal as noed. Sure DH is complained about. Which is why when i made my list of perks i didnt include dh. its too easy to complain about. But for you to say "its just the way it is" doesnt help the discussion or help me understand why noed is looked down on so much.
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The only change I would make to noed is take way the speed. You are allowed to down them with one hit. What's the point of that speed? You should use your skills to get that survivor with one hit, not being helped with some speed.
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The biggest problem with it is unlike every other hex perk, you can't cleanse it until the final gen procs
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It answers the question. People feel like it rewards their opponent for losing. If they use perks that are viewed the same way they are hypocrites. Hypocrisy is human nature.
People don't like to feel like they have won, have 4 healthy survivors, and then feel like they lost because the killer had one perk. Whether they also used perks that allowed them a victory the killer doesn't feel is fair is irrelevant. People will be hypocrites.
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Because it's a poorly designed perk.
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It's hated because the killer becomes the power role.
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That sounds more like MMR issues from bhvr side tbh but i understand what youre saying. But there is a lot of crutch perks in the game. Some can hardly be countered. (Sorry whataboutism) Which is why im trying to figure out what this particular crutch perk is hated a lot more. As for poorly designed? Ehh... Im going to hard disagree there. As much as noed is a crutch, i dont think its poorly design. Biggest reason, is its a hex perk. You can cleanse it out the game before it even can begin. Not to mention: it maybe only nets you one extra kill sometimes. Second reason: Murphy's law. Anything that can go bad will go bad. It's like a killers insurance policy. Like if a survivor brings ds incase they get tunneled, or a book incase they get camped. Doesnt mean that it will happen. But it can. So you prepare for it. Some, not all, bring noed just incase its a poorly designed map and they can at least walk away with 1 or 2 kills against a good team. (Least before sbmm. Now, because bhvr is ugh when designing this sbmm, youre more correct with it screws it up. They needed to do a better job) Sorry for paragraph.
Actual good argument. And i have no response to this. Youre right. It does do something for nothing. And it does allow more tunneling and camping which is boring. My only count argument would be to blame mmr...But umm... Thats almost as lazy as noed.
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Dont worry xD I wouldnt even nerf noed so hard as other ppl suggest, I would give it simply stacks you can earn by first hooking each survivor just like no way out does, so you have that many insta downs as many stacks you have, this would be a much healthier way of this perk, ofc it will still be a totem aswell.
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Youre absolutely right. And i misunderstood you if this was the point of your argument. People are hypocrites.
Good changes actually. The speed wouldnt change the function of the perk at all.
Yea for reasons tho. But also it doesnt activate until all the gens are done. So idk what to actually say to you? No offense..
Can you elaborate on why you feel like its a poorly designed perk? How can anyone have a discussion, if you use such a vague comment? =T
OH GOD FORBID!
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TBH same. i play both sides. And i personally love it when im hit with noed. It honestly is funny to me. As killer tho, Noed doesnt fit my playstyle... unless im purposely trying to activate an endgame trapper build lol.
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That could work... tho i would remove the totem
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People hate it because of the "reward bad gameplay" argument when they ignore how op survivors can be to the point where no matter how you play, well or not will result in all the gens getting completed.
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The counter-play suggested ("do bones") is almost impossible to do in Solo Q and Duo Q.
I've conducted experiments to see how realistic it is to cleanse all 5 totems in my games. It's not, especially when the Killer is semi-competent.
Likewise, it's almost trivially easy to do all 5 totems in a 4-man SWF.
This speaks to how poorly designed the perk is. It makes most players lives miserable and enforces a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario but it is almost useless against the group you'd want to use it on.
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Quite the contrary: being hit by NOED is a direct result of player agency.
Since I started not exclusively playing Killer, but also doing survivors, I experimented with different builds and noticed that no one is doing bones in solo q, so I made Detective Tapp my "Detectives Hunch", "Counter Force", "Inner Healing" wunderkind. I single-handedly stopped about a dozen NOEDs from blooming, with the caveat that my gen time was limited.
But that's the thing: if everyone is gen rushing and finishing in 4-5min,then no one did bones. That's your agency. So having experimented with bones myself I have even less sympathy for NOED cries. Quite on the contrary, being a killer main myself it hurt my heart whenever I cleansed some poor souls Hex totems away. But that's just the other side of the game.
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Skew the SBMMR,and rewards poor decicion - making and gameplay,its boring,like dead hard
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It’s forces me to run detectives hunch
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Thats actually good points. Its a solo q smasher. Like certain killers. It can be horribly unbalanced to solo q, if one doesnt dedicate their build to totems.
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So? You can choose not to.
I understand the screw of imaginary numbers to make matches harder can upset some people. I do not think it rewards poor decisions. At least not the same degree deadhard does. While i will agree noed is a crutch perk, i do not agree it rewards poor decisions purely because of my belief in murphy's law
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LOL i run the same build sometime, when i get hit with a few noeds that night
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It's because it rewards bad gameplay
Wrong. it rewards planning for the end game. Survivors need to stop pretending 5 gens popping is 'bad' or 'basically losing'. End of story.
People feel like it rewards their opponent for losing
But they are wrong. The Killer has not lost until a Survivor is unable to be killed. IE: Off the map.
Any whining and crying about is 'rewards losing' is a flat out lie by Survivors who will lie through their teeth to get the perk nerfed, because they have no real arguments or flaws to apply to it. So they have to make crap up, then point to that fake BS as 'flaws' in the perk.
NoED is fine. Only bad Survivors who can't do bones, or lazy Survivors who don't want to do bones, cry about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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And not gonna lie: it feels really great when I cleanse away some pesky Ruin or Plaything or Devour Hope, that's instant gratification. When you stop a NOED, you only see it in the after game screen, but it's a good feeling when you cleansed 4-5 of that totems yourself.
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I have only cleansed the twice totems when the killer had noed. One was a trapper with noed and bloodworden. It was so satisfying lmao
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In the current state of the game I understand why killers would run Noed, not just new to the game, less tenured players. On the flip side there are other perks besides noed to help end game like remember me or no way out.
My issue with noed besides skewing mmr is that it gives 2 powerful effects not just 1. Either remove the speed increase or remove the exposed effect and maybe give it an attack cooldown reduction with the speed increase.
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What am I supposed to be hearing in that video?
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Just the part where he said “just do bones 4head” “should have joined a 4man swf” lmao.
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Ah.
I think he actually uses one of the weaker arguments for NOED.
I've seen more and more that good Killers will use NOED. For sure, if the Killer has 3-5 hooks by the time 1 gen is left, you've got time to look for totems. However, I've seen more way NOED's on Killer's who have had 6-8 hooks by that point, plus a Kill.
You don't have any time to do bones at that point. It's a close match and if you cleanse totems out of fear of NOED, you lose. If you don't, you lose.
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Because it's not fun to play against and it's not even that powerful of a perk, it's just a low skill crutch similar to self care, not good but a lot of people use it cause it feels good to use when you are first starting out.
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Well for me it that there is no time if your teammates don’t last long in chases (that’s the biggest one), or the killer is a bubba facecamping. As for the video I agree with him on dead hard and didn’t really like his reasoning on noed but I just found the “should have joined a swf” part funny because it’s true it’s the only counter to noed really. Sure people with say use small game but that perk is garbage and I was trying to send the video of just that part but It was too big so I just had to send the video entirely my bad. But yeah I don’t mind doing totems but in solo I do it myself with no help. That sucks
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Just like DH, this is a never ending circle.
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DH is actually good though. Same with CoH
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It is, but it is also a crutch for a lot of people. There is a high skill ceiling for DH, but even low tier players can get a lot of use out of it, prolong chases that should have ended much sooner and get out of really sticky situations from which they shouldn't have recovered.
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Solo queue can't counter it efficiently due to lack of communication.
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Oh I agree those perks need nerfing too but DH only recently got validation and CoH is also a recent addition. Noed has been in the game for years.
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They are bad at the game. Anytime anyone calls any perk or killer low skill after getting destroyed by it, well, you know, it says a lot about them.
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Yeah, but in solo Q you can just chose to be the dedicated totem buster and BAM instand better experience.
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I completely agree that CoH and Dead Hard are totally busted, but NOED is just a...frustrating perk. It's not so much that it rewards bad gameplay, it's more that it's just a pain to deal with as a solo player and can sometimes feel a touch unfair.
I don't think it should be nerfed yet, but I would like to see it reworked into something a bit more consistent and less irritating down the line.
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For me personally it’s mainly the fact NOED is not suitable for HEX perk. Why?
- Most of the instadown perks have certain prerequisites to be met, such as hook x people, let x people unhook from safe distance to active. This isn’t case for NOED, you have to wait until lategame for it to work and pray for at least one totem that is up.
- Since waiting for lategame isn’t really something you work for, it promotes poor gameplay, basically rewarding camping and tunneling, while relying on people to push gens instead of destroying all totems.
- Because of point 2, killers, who play the “normal” way usually get rewarded less, hence the whole idea of high risk - high reward doesn’t apply here., which brings me back to point 1, the perk isn’t a good fit for HEX.
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I don't like it because of the speed boost and the fact that you don't know that it's noed until someone gets hit. I would be okay with it if you got told that that killer had noed if you got Exposed as soon as the last gen gets completed.
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