Why does everyone hate noed?
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This isn’t case for NOED, you have to wait until lategame
That is the prerequisite, fam...
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I done mind No Ed, only the way it activates.
Ir should not be tied to a survivor objective being completed.
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Basically people are sore losers and don’t like to die.
This is especially true when they are anticipating having won by getting to the endgame.
NOED doesn’t reward bad gameplay because games can get to the endgame even when both sides play well. So that argument is weak tea at best. It also lets you blame noed rather than any mistake might have made in said endgame so sore loserism in a different package.
Could noed get extra kills that you may not have gotten, yeah because it’s a strong perk. This is no different to DH saving you a health state it’s a strong perk. The it rewards bad play argument could be made about anything in game that makes it easier to complete your objective so basically every perk and add on does this and only the perk less add on less players can be considered remotely skilled with this thinking. A stupid argument made by stupid sore losers again.
If you get extra kills due to noed might it inflate your sbmm rating, yes it can but that’s a failure of sbmm not noed, that one perk may influence it so much. It’s a weak system.
noed is fun because it makes the endgame intense. Killers become threatening so they feel threatening as they should, and chases become high stakes and exciting as survivor because it’s so threatening. People should enjoy noed for those reasons it embodies this game as advertised.
You also have to have played a full game to conclusion for it to proc so you aren’t missing anything except the ease of escape in the endgame. The killer plays a perk down all game and it can be snuffed and removed from play. So it has downsides and is directly counter-able.
There is no reason to hate noed and any conversation that starts with I hate noed, it’s scummy, only crap killers run it etc etc means that changes and suggestions made by that person are marred by emotion and probably best taken with a grain of salt or ignored completely.
mechanically it’s strong but can be quickly removed and only activates in the endgame making it limited and vulnerable. Is that enough of a downside to counter how strong it is maybe, perhaps exposed without the speed boost would be better. Exposed alone is pretty strong. The window for its use is relatively short though so the speed boost can be justified.
Basically if your whole team dies to noed then you and your buddies ######### up. That’s on you not noed. Stop being a sore loser about it and own your loss.
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The problem is not in Noed. The problem is Survivors who don't want to take perks against totems. They don't want to lose their advantage.
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Survivors believe that once they have done the generators, they are entitled to leave without contest. That's basically it.
Noed really only exists so that survivors have a reason to remove dull totems from the match. If they do dull totems, it slows the game down fractionally and makes the killer's life a little nicer, and in return they never have to deal with noed. Instead survivors want noed gone so that they can switch their brain off entirely, never look for anything that isn't visible from across the map, and then play "we have BT and we're gonna bodyblock all the way from the hook to the gate" every game.
Noed does not reward bad play any more than it rewards good play. Noed is not a reward, it is a punishment for lax gameplay on the survivor side. As survivors you are under a hell of a lot less time pressure, and it's on you whether you decide to put in effort to remove totems with the multitude of tools at your disposal to do so, or to risk noed. The solution is not to do the latter then just whine that it exists. It has real, tangible counterplay that you are choosing not to engage with.
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Actually no. You can. But only by destroying all five dull totems on the map
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Even if they know from the beginning they are exposed
They are still going to complain (sorry but it's true)
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If you actually read my whole post, you would see my explanation, while it is a prerequisite, you don’t have to work for it and it shouldn’t be a hex perk IMO.
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You can usually tell if a killer has NOED long before end game, because most likely, they will suck. If you're going against a killer who is really pushing you, they will never have NOED unless its some kind of end game meme build.
Getting free kills because of a perk despite being terrible is the very definition of rewarding bad play. the other perks you mentioned don't single handedly get you free kills/escapes.
Long story short, if you run NOED, youre probably bad at the game and nobody wants to lose to somebody whos worse than them.
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Maybe because you have to do all 5 totems
Which ngl, 14 seconds per totems isn't that much
When you know you have to wait 80seconds per gens without taking in mind all the killer perks
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Would you be interested in some statistics about how many Dull Totems are cleansed in Trials?
Could I even change your mind?
Post edited by Pulsar on1 -
If boons have proven one thing, it's that survivors have PLENTY of time to ######### around with totems.
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Noed really only exists so that survivors have a reason to remove dull totems from the match.
This is one of the reasons I hate NOED: Unless you have a well-organised 4-man swiffer squad and the killer you're up against is reasonably matched, NOED does the exact opposite of this.
Barring 4-man swiffers, the general gameplay experience on the survivor side is a lose/lose scenario if you try to 'do bones'.
Situation A: You cleanse five totems, the killer had NOED. You lost a ton of time on totems, but at least NOED is gone.
Situation B: You cleanse five totems, killer didn't have NOED. You lost a ton of time on totems for no gain.
Situation C: You cleanse anywhere between 1 and 4 totems, killer had NOED. You lost a variable amount of time on totems for no gain.
Situation D: You cleanse anywhere between 1 and 4 totems, killer did not have NOED. You lost a variable amount of time on totems for no gain.
This is the alleged counterplay to NOED: It's just a case of lose out, or lose out more. You CAN go the other, obviously more efficient route of just not giving a damn about cleansing dull totems and finding it after it fires up, but the problem with that one is that it turns the perk into an RNG fest, because you need to get lucky with where it spawns. If it spawns right in a survivor's face? Killer's out of luck. If it godspawns? Survivors are screwed.
NOED is just the worst designed perk in the game.
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That's ######### true
But hey, don't have time for those bones huh
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Basically, especially in Solo-Queue, getting all 5 totems before the last generator goes is very unlikely. It is very hard to prevent NoED and those that can have to sacrifice a lot of time on generators to maybe get rid of a perk they have. Beyond this, the survivors don't even know if the killer has it until their bleeding out on the floor. Also, people can't coordinate (in solo queue) that "The killer is camping, don't try to save" so survivors tend to get from a 4E to a 1E because of lackluster coordination. In other words, it's a perk that primarily hurts solo queue, and nye impossible to deny.
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That number would be meaningless. You're asking 'Do you want to know how often Survivors cleanse totems?' as if Survivors choosing not to cleanse is somehow NoEDs fault.
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NOED rewards failure, simple as that.
It is a crutch mostly used by bad killers in public matches to compensate for failure to complete gens.
Survivors have plenty of crutch perks too but by far the cheapest and biggest killer crutch is NOED
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NOED rewards failure, simple as that.
Bullshit. Just another lie.
The Killer has not failed just because all 5 gens pop. This is an arbitrary flaw liars invented pretend NoED has a flaw in it.
The Killer has not failed until you can't be killed; IE: when you escape. Anything else is a flat-out lie invented by bad players. Simple as that.
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Personally I love using and go against noed cause it punish survivors for rushing their primary goal. In the actual state of the game this is needed (band aid fix) due to the repairing speed that generators have... There should be more perks like this since survivors have more perks to counter the strategies that a killer can do (slug, tunnel, camp, etc etc)
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My problem with NOED after 2k hours combined on all platforms is not really how it rewards ''bad gameplay'' it's just that it makes the game almost unplayable for new players.
At higher ranks, killers do not even run it, and if they do, you as a survivor with experience know about it, you know where totems spawns are and it's not like everyone and their mother does not run iron will / dead hard and does not care about being injured anyway.
The issue is, 80% of new games are camping tunneling wraith who will then noed the remaining people after they camped and tunneled one person at 5 gens. It's one of the reasons why the survivor experience is so awful when you are new and in solo q and honestly one of the reasons the game is struggling to keep new players after each new release.
It needs a re-work because of newer players, not the veterans. I have never seen people complain about devour hope for example. It's the perk that offers high risk / high reward and actually incentives killer to play ''fair'' and then they get rewarded for it. It's probably my favourite hex and the one I would say is the best designed in the game.
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I don’t use NOED but I will say that the argument that it rewards failure is false. The killer’s job/objective is not protecting gens, it’s stopping survivors from escaping. If you haven’t escaped, you failed not the killer. And at the end of the day, all NOED does is remove 1 health state from survivors after the gates are power for as long as the totem stays up. Meanwhile survivors get multiple unearned extra health states ALL GAME LONG INCLUDING THE EGC. Survivor second chances revolve around failure ie getting hit/downed/hooked. Let’s remove those and then we can also remove NOED to compensate.
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12 possible spawn points.
5 totems.
If a totem is broken by your teammates, you still see the bones on the floor.
Those of you arguing that it takes headset based communication for this, why? What part of checking spawn points, counting 5 totems (or breaking them yourself), then coming back to break the lit one if noed appears requires such amazing levels of communication?
I've only been playing solo survivor for a few years, and haven't found the lack of a headset really hampers my ability to count to 5, but maybe I'm missing something.
I get it, all the gens were completed, you feel like high fives and butt dances all around, but the game isn't over until the results screen. The end game is still the game.
One real positive I've noted with noed is that killers who run it seem to be less aggressive tunnelers in the early game. They know they have a backup plan, or they built their loadout around the end game, so they aren't as worried about getting a survivor out as soon as they can. While I personally enjoy an attentive killer (as running from them is literally why I play, it's certainly not for my love of generator repair) tunnelling is probably the most, if not 2nd most complained about strategy on this forum.
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Crazy how dead hard thread will have everyone agreeing that it’s busted and should be nerfed, but when noed its brought up people get defensive. I have noticed it on YouTube videos as well Lmao. Whatever I hate both perks
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1. Shouldn't it be "very hard" to prevent an entire perk from taking effect at all? Killers don't get the ability to delete any Survivor perk before it can take effect like that. Survivors also don't get any warning that devour is at enough stacks until the first one is moried. Killers have no indication that literally any survivor perk is in the game until it's used, that's how perks work.
2. Y'all don't do jumping jacks on the hook to let people know the killer is camping? I realize kindred exists, which also tells that information for the entire team, as well as letting them see each other, but still, why are we pretending there is no communication outside of the verbal?
When the killer can choose to light 5 candles placed around the map to permanently disable Dead Hard for the duration of the match, (or just 1 after the first time it's used) they'll be equivalent. Until then, it's just a bad form of whataboutism.
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ill be happy if they delete it from the game lmao, lithe is better😎
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How am I defending NOED?
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I agree there. I don't like perks that require me to be injured to use. (Outside of healing perks, obviously)
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You aren’t lmao I’m talking about the thread in general. I agree with your stance.
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And no mither too delete that and dead hard and I’ll be happy
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I always forget that bad idea made real is still (somehow) a thing
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It's similar to dead hard in that regard too. Some survivors will use dead hard just to run into walls, or if they're bad at looping you'll catch up and quickly down them after they use their dead hard. Better survivors will use it after a long chase and the killer has to give up that chase if they want to spread pressure, and it feels bad.
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Dead Hard rewards bad gameplay. Unbreakable rewards bad gameplay. As does Soul Guard. Decisive to an extent as well. NOED is far more counterable than any of those.
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I'll defend NOED. It's a balanced perk that has a plethora of counters in the form of perks, items, and just general game knowledge. Perks, I might add, that survivors choose not to use in order to make use of their second chance builds as if they need to wear 4 condoms for maximum protection.
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I don't mind it, even in solo queue. I see it proc and I feel some empathy.
I don't use it much as killer, but the argument against "it takes no skill, therefore it shouldn't exist" is that you alienate some of the player base by making any game purely about skillful play.
We are not all equal. Some players have disabilities or just aren't as skilled as you might be. How to make it fun for them too? There has to be some stuff to keep less skilled players playing. We're not playing the Olympics here.
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Alright, let me try a different approach.
Do you think the counterplay to Dead Hard (just bait it out) is reasonable and fair for the effect DH can give?
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Yes and no, in all honesty? Dead Hard is in a weird spot with me where it does what it should, but too well? Let me try to explain, but I'm bad at communicating my thoughts, so please bear with me.
I think Dead Hard, or something else, needs to exist for what it does; It's the 'Survivor NoED'.
What I mean is that both are an unknown threat. Both need to be played around at all times. Changing what they do would kill that unknown threat; Kill Dead Hard, and Killers no longer need to bait it out, and can swing without fear of missing. Kill NoED, and Survivors can ignore totems. They can just bang gens because there's no threat of an endgame power that can 'catch up' with their gen greed.
Do I think 'just bait it out' is a legit/reasonable counter?
Yes? I mean, I've done it where I look up and then down, and Survivors, expecting a swing, take the slightest movement as 'DEAD HARD NOW!' I mind-gamed them.
Now, there are Survivors who are more steady nerves, and this does not work. So I could not mind-game them.
Seems reasonable to me.
Would I be against a Dead Hard Change?
Not really? My idea FOR said change is to give DH 2 activation buttons; one for i-frames, and one for distance. Survivors can only do one per activation, not both at the same time. This way it keeps it's 2 effects, but Survivors now have to decide, per use, which they really need. They can 'DH for distance' but they can still be damaged. Or they can i-frame but gain no distance.
Though the Killer still does the weapon wipe if he hits the i-frames.
Add all this together and I guess the answer is that I can't see DH changing because it fills the 'unknown threat' role. Which is the exact same reason NoED can't change:
- NoED can't 'be active at the start of the match'. This would ensure it never sees end-game use.
- NoED can't have a timer. Survivors can loop for 30+ seconds. Plus slower Killers would be shafted.
Can NoED have a token system?
Well, I would have said 'no' in the past. But now, with the advent of Boons and Hex: Penti; maybe? Survivors literally have 0 positive reasons to Cleanse: Cleansing removes Boon ability. Not Cleansing = Boons & counters Hex: Penti.
So giving NoED a token system (for every dull/lit/Boon totem; NoED gains a token. A token is expended every time the Killer puts a Survivor in the Dying State) would encourage Cleansing, which would allow Killers to use Penti. And it makes Survivors choose between 'Boon' and 'Stop NoED'.
That was a pretty roundabout way to say 'I accept the 'just bait it out' excuse', huh? I like anything that adds more mindgames between Killers and Survivors over static perk interactions.
I hope this have given some insight to where I stand with DH and NoED.
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Who's everybody? NOED is fine.
Oh, you mean the survivor-only players who only know how to play QTE and mostly use DH, BT, DS, with Spine Chill or Iron Will? (I suspect some Boon now, I've not played for a long time.) It's because it's a counter to their easy play-style. Of course they have to blame getting killed to something else than their own incompetence, what else would you expect?
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Breaking all five totems solo q usually isn't feasible
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I don't hate NOED, I hate getting hit by NOED when I've cleansed totems. In a normal match without camping it'd be nice if my teammates would atleast cleanse totems while they urban evade around the map.
Also since SBMM is now in the game it now increases your odds for a game with a facecamper because they'll get 1k during match and then atleast one more with NOED - those killers will never drop MMR, just stay at same level thanks to 2k or go up if they get more kills. Just boring/unfun matches.
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So don't?
Just note where they are, and check back if noed activates.
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Look people can run whatever they want. I run blast mine (swapped it out in place of detectives hunch) for now but I know it’s not a meta perk. It’s like a b tier perk but damn every match where someone uses no mither they get tunneled out in like 5 seconds. I know when I see no mither when I play killer, my eyes light up. Lmao
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I think adding a token system is the most reasonable compromise.
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Me, noting where the two totems are.
The other three totems I never saw.
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NOED is not fine, lmao.
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Small games is more helpful imo, give it a try
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Finding all 5 totems by yourself or assuming everyone else in the match is doing so in solo q is hilarious
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The reason I don't like NOED is because most of the killers that I see run it play so hard that you don't get to endgame in the first place.
It feels like a middle finger to survivors sometimes
"If I destroy the team they just suck"
"if they manage to play well and get to end game I can just one shot them"
That may not be the attitude of all killers, However playing against killers that completely stomp you and still run NOED feels like insult to injury.
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I actually like NOED as survivor - Makes games more exciting and punishes my teammates who are overly cocky. There's obviously the flipside that you could die unfairly but this is DBD - Not every perk is meant to be something you use skillfully and not every game is going to be fair. Look at every single perk in this game and tell me which one of them really needs skill over planning. The only thing unfair about NOED and I'm going to say this until it gets nerfed is the movement speed and surprise hit - Honestly it's a pretty trash perk if you exclude the movement speed but that's the only tell the perk has.
Am I a killer main if that were even relevant? In a sense I prefer killer but I play both sides equally. I just don't involve myself in this idiotic tribalism people spew back and fourth about survivor killer main #########. Even so I know someone will call me out sayingg X Y Z because I had the audacity to say I enjoy it when the killer uses NOED while I'm survivor.
NOED doesn't reward bad gameplay - Every perk requires planning and uses strategy. Do people ######### about when Haunted Grounds is cleansed and claim the killer is being rewarded for doing nothing? No they just blame it on the teammate that cleansed it because this community loves to blame others for their failures. If it wasn't NOED it would just be another perk someone complains about downing them. Don't put yourself in a position where the killer is going to hit you when the gates are powered. Pay attention to their movement speed it's obvious when they have noed.
The only perk I feel I hate in this game is Dead Hard but that's not even because of the perk itself it's because latency makes it impossible to fairly balance the perk. I'd rather it be reworked not because of the perk itself but so we can stop seeing threads about "I'm exhausted on the ground" or "I heard the hit sound and they dead harded through it". Frustrating perk overall and a waste of time to try and balance. Just rework the perk.
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Same reply to both.
The spawn points are consistent, and there are only 12 per map. Maybe if you really are having that much difficulty, then next time they do a seasonal event like they did with the jack o lanterns, pay attention to where they spawn (they were all on totem spawn points) and that will help you learn them, but seriously, it's not that many.
In the last calendar year, where all my survivor matches have been solo (bar 1 night when I was teaching my wife the game) I can't honestly remember a match where I couldn't find every totem, I only use inner strength as my "totem" perk and I don't bring maps because I find them to be useless once you've gotten used to the zone, so I honestly don't see how you could have such an issue, especially with the items and perks that exist specifically to help you find and count totems.
Also, just to point this fact out one more time.
Breaking 5 totems before the last gen removes NOED from the match entirely. There is literally no other perk that can be removed before it has provided any benefit whatsoever, as such it should take quite a bit of effort to pull off. After it activates it's just another hex perk, and also able to be removed, which is something that is not possible for any Survivor perk.
Removing a perk before it can activate is the most powerful action a survivor can take in game. Any time someone says it shouldn't activate if they only did 3 or 4 totems it seems they really miss that point. Powerful actions that leave a player with 3/4 perks should be high risk decisions that take effort.
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This reads exactly like someone saying
"I don't need to camp or tunnel to 4K every game and I play against comp players, you just need to get good."
You probably didn't intend it that way, but that's what it sounds like.
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