General Discussions
General Discussions
Finally ! Thanks BHVR Patrick for the SBMM explanation
hi,
The Q/A stream was very informative and I would like to point out this part in the video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1270103249?t=0h22m32s There he explains wonderfully what the SBMM is all about. I would like to write it again: BHVR definitely chose the right way here and made the right decision. I know there will be some who disagree with the final decision of the developers, but I myself could not have explained it better. Now imagine if the developers were to calculate the MMR differently. ( hook counter for example and so on ) Then there would be almost only farm rounds and no losers and that would be a disaster for the game.
Comments
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Behavior has repeatedly failed or made this games matchmaking worse with every change they make. Make a ranked and unranked game mode, remove SBMM and you will get your player base back. The new SBMM is absolutely and undeniably awful.
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That is a terrible statement and helps no one
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The truth hurts. How does your groveling help make positive changes to the game?
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The SBMMR isn´t bad. It just hasn´t anything to do with skill.
So they might just rename it to KEBMMR (Kill/Escape Based Matchmaking).
Don´t blame the KEBMMR for poor balancing.
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"The Q/A stream was very informative".
This is a joke right?
The QnA was literally the same that it always it. Vague statements, avoiding the question, stupid jokes and Soon(tm). Well, that, and people asking the same questions that get asked every QnA.
I agree the way they have implemented SBMM is fine (his analogy is bad though) even if I think Hooks should count. There's a thing called a "draw". I'm mainly fine with how MMR is in DBD because it literally means nothing.
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The issue I take with SBMM is that I don't think it's working well at all when it comes to Solo queue (the devs don't actually GAF about Solo experience). I went from playing this game maybe 4-5 nights a week after work to playing once a week, maybe 4 matches due to the idiocy of the MMR. I get constantly stuck with potato team mates who make stupid plays, and stupid decisions. Some of them have only been playing the game for a few weeks and have nothing but yellow perks.
So what happens is, they go down immediately. I manage to survive the entire match, escaping chases, doing gens, doing hook saves etc, but because the hatch was reworked to be almost pointless, I often die. That's what happens when you're matched with a crappy team. You die. And it doesn't matter how well you played. If it's just you and the Killer left, you WILL die unless you get lucky and find the hatch. Even at that, they've stated that hatch escapes "don't count". Which is also ridiculous.
Then the next 4 matches are face campers. And most people know that unabashed camping/tunneling is almost a guaranteed win against Solo queue. Even the devs have said this. So if a Killer face camps and tunnels, that increases the chances of death exponentially in Solo queue. Which lowers your MMR, matching you with even worse team mates. Soon, you are trapped in MMR hell, and you can't really get out of it. So the game just becomes more frustrating than it is fun or challenging.
Personally, I think what we're looking at here in the video is ego. They just think they're right, and no amount of real testimony and player experience will change their minds because that would require reflecting on the idea that they worked for 2 years on something that is seen as a failure in the eyes of a large percentage of the audience.
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That would make it a bad system...
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"The skill-based matchmaking isn't bad, it just doesn't matchmake based off of skill."
This kitchen knife isn't bad, it's just dull and doesn't cut food.
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You have to see it like Blades little brother: Butter knife.
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KEBMMR - 100% using this from now on to describe the matchmaking. What they have now is not skill based.
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MMR is an improvement on the original system - I certainly wouldn't want to revert back to how it originally was!
It does need improvements, and whilst I do agree that kills and surviving consistently overall does include skill, I don't necessarily agree that this is the best way forward for match-making, and feel it's far more complex than they put across.
But thinking about it, with the bizillion requests BHVR get for changes to this, that and the other, the easiest solution is win/loss, such as a league table. It would be best not to pretend it's skill-based though. Change it to WLMM (Win Loss Match Making).
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soonTM
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shirtless Killer/surv when?
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mori changes for old killers when?
same as every dev stream
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Ranked and unranked are a terrible idea. Nobody would play ranked.
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Someone has never played any multiplayer game ever. You would be ignorant to think people would never play it. Ban SWF in ranked, add Auric cell/ BP rewards, cosmetic rewards, reap the benefits. It's almost like a majority of other multiplayer games have adopted this idea and it's worked out well.
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So ranked is the place for easy games for Killers including Rewards? Nice.
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You misspelled balanced games. If you think killers have the power in the game currently I don't need any further arguments from you. I don't even play killer and know that survivors run the game for the majority in high MMR currently.
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All I want them to take into account to make this slightly better is count the amount of time spent in chase and if the objective was being done during said chase.
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Maybe you should play Killer yourself instead of just believing that it is SO HARD to play as Killer... And why do you mention high MMR? MMR is not skillbased, I thought this is common sense in this community.
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Would not work.
First of all, if the Objective is being done is outside of the control of the Survivor being chased. Second, someone who uses every Pallet on the Map might have a long chase, but wasted all the ressources. Are other Survivors worse, when they dont have any ressources left?
And well, someone who gets chased for 2 minutes and uses 2 Pallets is better than someone who gets chased for 2 minutes and uses 8 Pallets, but the time spent in chases cannot reflect this. (And it would also depend on which Pallets are being used. Two Pallets on Shelter Woods are more valuable than 8 crappy Pallets on Midwich)
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There's a lot of factors to consider. Pallet usage should be taken into account as well imo.
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I disagree. Sometimes I would rather get away from sweaty try hards and play a casual mode for practice. Also, I'd like to see a barebones mode where there are no perks, add ons or offerings.
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It was a terrible explanation. He essentially said that they don't take skill into consideration in a skill based matchmaking system. The idea is not that hooks be the only skill that they base MMR on, just something that is factored in, in addition to kills and other skills. We were promised a skill based matchmaking system and they went with the most basic system anyone could have come up with, that doesn't take skill into account.
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There are too many factors overall. You would need to assign specific Ratings to basically each Tile in the game (if it spawned, if it has a Pallet, what direction it is facing (e.g. if it is linked to other tiles)), to every Perk and every Add-On.
It would be impossible.
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Which is why we could try to compromise by having it be based on chase time on either side and for survivors, the sparing usage of resources. The longer a survivor is in chase, the better standing that survivor has in the mmr field. But what if you aren't good at chases but crank out gens like a beast? Of course, a factor for doing gens and extra points for the chased survivor if others are doing generators as they are being chased.
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A butter knife could still theoretically slice something.
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Otz proved this by playing every killer perkless while waiting 30 seconds before engaging while maintaining an above an above 2.0 kill rate. (I think it was actually above 3.0 kill rate but could be wrong).
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Golly goodness gravy I wonder where all the Nurses and alch crow Blights and shackle Hags are gonna go once we implement Ranked.
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Oh it was fun matching up with you btw! :>
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Otz admitted he played super sweaty (camped, tunneled, slugged) and he played at night which in the EU has more casual survivor players. Tru did the same experiment (also in the EU), he didn't camp/tunnel/slug and played during the day. if i remember right his results were 1-2 less kills on average than Otz.
This experiment is interesting but it still isn't perfect b/c of playstyle, time of day, and more.
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It was a good match.
But if you ever Rancor Mori me again i'm reaching through your screen to slap your face off to the Seinfeld theme.
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Guess I'll die.
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A killer who played suboptimal on top of a suboptimal challenge while getting kills would indicate the game is severely weighted toward killer.
You have to realize the Otz played severely handicapped and was still getting wins. He AFKed 30 seconds and played perkless.
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