Endgame Collapse
As we all know, end game collapse is a mechanic that sets a timer when gate is opened or hatch is closed making both survivors and killers make tough decisions during 2 minute countdown to sudden death. Currently abused by survivors by opening gates to 99% of progress - which makes it harder for killer to secure kills. Survivors have enough time to heal themselves, go for a save and escape while killer is left with no kills.
No kills = No mmr rating progress
Why on the latest QnA devs told us that it works great? It surely does, for a beginners who havent come to thought of leaving the gate at "almost open", or the situation where there is only 2 or 1 survivor left. Simple perk or some sort of change to gates like regression for example would make a difference.
Maybe some sort of Hex that activates when all gens are done (Hex:Ruin but for gates(?))
Quote "End Game Collapse works great! (...) we have no further plans to change it."
- Patrick Harris - Lead Game Designer
I hope that this quote is about a fact that there is little to no bugs i can recall that are linked to End game collapse...
Latest QnA gave as an unsatifying answer, but acting like it is not a problem just doesnt feel right.
Would single perk make a difference? Or make a change to gates since it would require a perk slot?
I'd like to hear what the rest of the community has to say about this, so i invite you all for a discussion.
Comments
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I'm on the fence about EGC changes. But the two ideas i've seen which i like are opening the exit gates have a progress bar that goes down if they don't fully open and finishing the last gen starts EGC. If EGC starts with the last gen, then the timer will need to be longer to take into account no way out and remember me.
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It’s supposed to end the game, and it does just that. There’s nothing that should be changed.
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Egc only exists because survivors would literally do everything they can to extend the game once gens were done and would just outright refuse to leave.
This was particularly awful when you had a 1 perk killer going up against 4 people decked out in meta perks.
Its literally and entirely just to stop that. The only change I would think to give it is at XX minutes the killer can just open the door.
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Also because killers could body block survivors and they couldn’t leave it for or anything
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It's fine the way it is.
It's not meant to help the killer get more kills it's meant to end the match. If 99ing the gate is a problem open it yourself.
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EGC is there purely to end the game, it's not meant to give killers kills. It's there to prevent instances of survivors hiding at the end of the match and preventing the match from ending - which is why killers can open the doors, to start the timer and force players to leave instead of an indefinite amount of time being added to the match for no reason.
That's why we say it's doing it's job well, because it's ending the game.
There's no problem with 99'ing doors - previously survivors would just open them up fully and make the same endgame plays, they can't do that now due to time, so 99'ing is the smartest option when you don't know where your team is, or if you're planning to make saves. It doesn't change the way the game was played at the end of the match - nor was it meant to.
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Who on earth would run that perk? The egc is fine the way it is
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Then why not just end the game when all gens are completed?
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EGC is not meant to help get kills. Never was.
Before the EGC, there was no timer. Survivors could open the door and then stay on the map for an extra hour if they wanted. There was nothing to force the game to end. The EGC is the best thing that's happened to this game since I started playing over three years ago.
The timer putting pressure on survivors and helping the killer sometimes is a nice bonus for killers, but its not the EGC's purpose. I'd say killers are lucky the timer only slows down rather than coming to a complete stop when someone's hooked.
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Because the game isn’t over yet at that point. ?
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Cause killers would cry a river and several things had to be reworked.
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because its entirely possible to snowball when the game hits 0 gens but the gates aren't open, and even if you can't kill everyone you can useless secure one or two out of desperation and them getting cocky.
the game hasnt ended until every survivor is no longer in the trial, either through escaping or dying. the egc, under normal gameplay, forces the game to end one way or another, and therefore it does it's job flawlessly.
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Will you guys at least reexamine perks like No One Left Behind whose conditions hinge on the gates being open to fit the new idea that the endgame begins when the gens are done, not the gates? Because currently it's unusable and does not fit the model of how games are played out.
Agree about allowing killers to open the door after a set amount of time. It's a little riskier, but there's nothing stopping survivors from still doing this, and I've encountered it a few times both as survivor and as killer; they just 99 the last gens as their cutoff point and then bully until they're out of resources. It'd also help in situations where there's two survivors left and they're hardcore hiding.
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Obviously......They said its not meant for killers to get kills its meant to end the game and my response was so why not end the game?
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Open the gate yourself.
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OP, if you are in that situation, you have already done a lot wrong in the match or were simply outplayed. You let them complete all 5 gens and you let them 99 the gate. You can open the gate yourself, if you don't like that it is 99'd, but it is my guess that it would not change the outcome much.
There was a time when the EGC did not even exist. It was added to prevent people taking the game hostage indefinitely, not to make it easier to get kills.
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EGC does end the game, after four minutes maximum. It doesn't guarantee extra kills, but can lead to them.
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I'm fine with EGC. I'd like to see Gates have checkpoints (25,50,75) that will regress progress to a checkpoint if abandoned but that's my only beef.
That change would actually make Wake Up more viable I think
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I think those would be some justified tears, Egc is where I have all my fun, rancor + no way out is quite a beautiful thing when it works out.
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Do you want the game to end when the gens are done?
Mandy's words are "it's not meant to give killers kills." Killers are sure as hell allowed to get kills, the EGC just doesn't gift kills to them.
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Killer players are justifying NOED with "When all Gens are done the game is not over". So do you really think they want to let the game end with all Gens done?
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As a noed main I'd hate to see the game end once all gens are done
Unless....unless noed now procs when theres 1 gen left 😳
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It’s meant to end the game when it’s at a stalemate at the end.
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You say EGC isn't meant to give killers kills, so why does the timer slow down to help survivors get escapes?
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But Mandy, when I watched the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqGzYaiiMlY Dead by Daylight | Endgame Collapse
I was under the impression that this mechanic would push Survivors.
I quote: "Tensions will run high as Survivors race against the clock to save their friends from the entity, while evading the Killer"
Now take that with how regular gameplay is, Survivors 99% the gate and wait until their friends are safe and then leave together.
The game regularly has no impending collapse or pressure, the Endgame collapse is only really effective if you can force the gate open as Killer while also trapping a rescue team.
Now, maybe the marketing team overstated the impact EGC would have.
But I think you guys really missed a good opportunity.
I would increase the EGC Timer, then start it when the last Gen is lit.
I would also put a 45ish min auto EGC, to prevent hostage taking but that is a side issue.
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1. That's not a justification so much as just pointing out the facts. The game is over when all the survivors are either dead or have escaped.
2. Do you really want the game to just end at the 5th gen? No last dash for saves or anything, just suddenly a results screen because your teammate finished a gen while you were in the middle of a different play? I know I wouldn't enjoy that. I love the mad rush to get past the killer and out the doors, and I'd miss it
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I have no problems with the 99ing of the gates..
Some of us Killers start to slug after the last gen is done to make sure no one escapes..
Survivors do the 99 stuff to make sure everyone gets out..
It's totally fair imho
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No, I dont. But I also did not say that I want it to be the case. Dont really know how you get the idea.
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They would shift the balance updates. It would be nothing but survivor nerfs and killer buffs patch after patch. The kill rates are basically above 2k average mostly because of altruistic survivors during end game. I think the game would be a lot more fun if the game did end when gens were complete just because killers would get so jacked to compensate.
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The EGC begins when The Killer or any Survivor opens the gate, not a second sooner. The EGC has a particular purpose; it perfectly achieves that goal, thus requiring no change. Some killer players want everything to benefit or become a tool for The Killer; EGC will never be that.
@Emeal tensions are high and the Survivors are pushed up as soon as the EGC begins, not any sooner.
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Perfect is a strong word when hackers literally prevent the game from ending because egc doesn't work.
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Hackers circumventing a game mechanic is an issue but not an issue with the design goals and accomplishments of the mechanic. EGC perfectly fulfills the dev's stated goals has nothing to do with hackers.
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I really wish no one left behind was changed to all 5 gens getting completed. It would become really useful
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meh
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Imagine nerfing NOLB more than you buff it. Now imagine the DbD devs.
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You typed
"Killer players are justifying NOED with "When all Gens are done the game is not over"do you really think they want to let the game end with all Gens done?"
Other than being nonsense us vs them rhetoric, it's clear you are trying to claim that killer mains just want the game to run longer so they can get more kills.
So I asked if you were really interested in making the game shorter, because either you are actually for the game ending at 5 gens, or you were just looking for some way to turn another conversation about game mechanics into an "us vs them" thing, as seems to be your standard.
Now I have my answer, thank you and have a good weekend.
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EGC is far from perfect. It can be completely circumvented by survivors choosing to 99% the exit gates. The only counter is for a killer to do the survivor's job for them and allow them free escapes. Not to mention the killer has to go out of their way to open the gates.
It's also hypocritical to pretend EGC is neutral and say it isn't meant to help the killer get kills when it has built-in mechanics like slowing the timer down when a survivor is downed or hooked to give survivors more time to help others escape.
If BHVR wanted EGC to be truly neutral it would start as soon as the last gen popped and the timer would be constant regardless of survivor health states.
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Well, for example I do. I don't mind noed and wouldn't care if it was left the way it is. I wish they would nerf the stack up slowdown meta, talking about killer-side nerfs. Longer games are ok if it's because of interaction, not because the killer just regresses a gen 5 times
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That is, I would say, 100% accurate. Altruistic plays bump up the kill rates and obscure the actual implications of the kill rate data. I think that's one of the reasons I find the dev's balance decisions so confusing at times.
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Your premise is wrong because 99ing the exit gate is part of the game, that's not a circumvention mechanic, just like 99ing a Survivor with Stalk or a generator is part of the game. Circumventing means bypassing, not merely avoiding its initiation. The EGC begins when it is supposed to start, not a second sooner. There is no way around the EGC. Nothing you say changes that fact.
Slowing the timer has several purposes; you should look at what the devs have stated about it rather than inventing your understanding and then attempting to imply your view is controlling. Again EGC has one purpose, and it accomplishes the stated goals. It will never be a killer tool, as much as you want it to be.
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EGC can be started either by survivor or killer, so a tactical movie by a killer sporting Blood Warden would be down a survivor, open the gates and then hook.
Survivors also can use it to avoid that scenario and build time to make the last save, and again an opportunity may arise for the killer that what looked like it ought to have been 1k can turn into a 3-4k because of the altruism.
The main thing is that EGC means there is an end coming. Before, some survivors could open both gates and still mess around, hide and hold the game hostage. Now, the killer can open it to cause pressure, and also once it does open survivors know the time is limited.
The game is vastly better for EGC.
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The devs have said the timer slows down specifically to give survivors more time to make interesting plays and escape.
And yes, 99% the gates so you can avoid 100% of the pressure from EGC is circumventing it. The only way for it to be fair is for it to start immediately and apply pressure to both sides equally.
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It also gives the killer a lot of opportunities because sometimes survivors misread the timer and end up staying behind to be altruistic and ultimately die. The 100% pressure begins when the collapse starts, survivors can avoid initiating it but then the killer can start it. Your point still fails. If it did immediately start at the conclusion of the 5th generator, it would need to be longer and the killer would lose the ability to view both exit gate control panel auras in perpetuity. However, again, the collapse has a very specific and narrow purpose and it accomplishes that goal. You keep inventing and coming up with different scenarios that have nothing to do with the collapse which begins at the exact time it's supposed to begin, when either side initiates it.
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Inventing scenarios? What are you talking about? No one said EGC couldn't be adjusted if changed.
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I'm not trying to sound trolly, or negative in any way, I love this game, I play killer alot, but I started with survivor and I know theres nothing more horribly annoying than a killer that wipes the whole group in the shortest amount of time, as a killer who started off as a survivor, I try hard not to be that killer so I'll hook everyone once, then help everyone with gens, or I'll kill 2 and help the last 2 who outran me escape, but that's not why I'm typing this. The reason I am commenting now is this...........
"As we all know, end game collapse is a......."
I am calling straight up bullshit on this. As amazing as this game (and repetitive) it is, I still have alot of love and great care for it, but you guys tutorial needs to change.........ALOT. Ima tell you guys right now, if WE ALL KNEW, then I wouldn't have to google the answers to what status effects are, I see that you guys have finally began to add it to the add-ons which is an amazing step in the right direction, but tutorial is still horrendous and theres nothing pointing out that status effects can be read there. Hey! I know, how about instead of changing the game all around with the things you change to appease the whinning children who have no real skill at the game because they keep disconnecting, that you actually change something in your game that needs to be given some hard tough love because its just horrible?
Again, I'm not trying to troll here, and I hope the devs take all of this with a grain of salt, and yes I agree I may still have some salty feelings about that on me own, because no one should be thrown blind, deaf, and dumb about the games mechanics, so I apologize if any of this comes off to harsh or in a negative light. ALSO one more thing guys. The 2 min ban being the most minimal to disconnects wouldn't disway a crack her at a crack house, can we change that please? 1 hour would make people less likely to disconnect because they think they are to good to recieve their first hook after a 15 min loop (I pulled 15 mins out of thin air, its a really big stretch but its making my point XD) work smart guys not hard, use common sense please XD
Thank you all for reading and listening to my rant, you are all amazing and have a great day ♥
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EGC and 99ing gates are fine. Not to give offense to the original poster, but we hear the word "abuse" strung to every other thing currently, and this one is definitely not a matter of abusing the game.
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Holy necro.
If you have a suggestion, post it in the appropriate forum. Resurrecting a 7 month old thread in the wrong forum ain't it, chief.
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There is no problem with end game collapse. If you haven't gotten your kills at that point, and can only squeeze out maybe one more, you got outplayed.
I hate on survivor players a lot I'll admit
But lately my killer brothers are really disappointing me with some of the crying.
EGC is almost PURELY there FOR the killer, because prior the survivors could take the match hostage. Not to mention as I said, you didn't gets your kills before the gens popped, then you lost. Hard stop. If you get to keep killing after the gens popped, then whats the point of them doing gens to start with?
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egc is not really bad, but it’s just the fact that killer is forced to camp the hook until the person dies or go to the 99 gate to forced egc while the person is being unhooked and running to the other 99d gate. There is only one killer they can’t open gates and chase survivors at the same time. Meanwhile survivor can just leave instantly whenever they want if they 99 the gate
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