Are Killer mains Actually dropping out?
Comments
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Yes, I saw the Stream as well, and they pretty much put to bed a lot of my assumptions and complaints about SBMM being the cause for the player dropout rate, and it definitely is better than the old "Victory Cube", however, what irritated me the most was their response to this question:
@Madjura - "What is the Killer/Survivor distribution?"
Internally, this is known as the "Role Ratio"- the ratio between killers and survivors. In a perfect world, this should be 4:1, but the truth is that this fluctuates throughout the day quite often. Time of day, reigon, platform, day of the week, and seasonally all are important factors. So no specific ratio can be given, because by the time Patrick has finished talking (and I've finished writing, and you've read it) it will be wrong.
This is an excerpt from @GoodBoyKaru 's Summary of the stream, with the answer they roughly gave for it. The Problem I have with this "Sweeping it under the rug" style answer is that they treated it as if they were going to check it for the day/hour of the stream, and completely ignored the possibility of presenting us with a chart that shows the average "role ratio" per month for the past 3 or 6 months. That was something they very easily could have done, and is almost exactly what this whole post was aimed at getting ahold of, but I believe they purposely didn't do it because they don't want anyone seeing it, which adds more credence to the idea that Killers are in fact dropping out of the game more than survivors, especially over the past few months.
It was like they were covering up their Silence on the issue with a lame excuse for why it couldn't be done right then and there, while ignoring giving us what we wanted to know, and hoping we wouldn't notice or press the matter further. That really rubbed me the wrong way.
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Yep, that statement was pure "i gonna start talking about irrelevant stuff in the hope you forgot what the question was, by the time i finished talking"
Does the playerbase vary based on the time of the day? Sure! Just like it varies on every single game or activity out there. What really matters are the stats during prime time.
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insert demo roars or Freddy’s laugh lmao
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Wait, why are you using Jolt on Demogorgon? How dare you use an M1 Perk when Shred exists
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I’m pretty mediocre with the shred but it’s a good back up for ruin since I don’t have many other killer perks lmao yeah Ik I’m lame. Sometimes I get an awesome shred hit and then other times when I completely wiff on the hit. Jolt should damage a gen with an m2 hit
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Jolt should definitely activate on M2's, in addition I'd say it either needs it cooldown removed or a higher amount of regression
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Agreed it would make it like an A tier perk
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Personally, I have not played since last year.
I roam the forums on occasion.
And I really do not feel like I am missing out on that much. And I do not feel a good reason to come back and play the game at all if I am being honest.
I don't hate the game, but it just got tiring. I have been enjoying playing other games, even LoL somehow.
I do miss DBD from time to time, but that DBD is not this current one so. Tough love.
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If BHVR was confident that they had the data that killers are not leaving the game, I think they would have responded to that question very differently. I think they would have shared the data or at least said something generic like “killer player numbers have not been dropping” if they could show the normal % of players in the queue pool was even close to healthy. They didn’t because we can all see it very obviously in the queue times - the game has fundamental balance flaws that make playing killer unfun at higher levels and against SWF.
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Yep. I'm done playing for now. The Boon: Circle Of OP 'nerf' was literally the laziest, most half-arsed nerf they have ever done.
It feels like they went 'We'll tell Killers it's a 25% nerf, because that SOUNDS big! Maybe they'll be too stupid to run the numbers! This should shut them up! (But don't worry, Survivors; it's only 2-4 seconds! You still have your OP toy!)'
It was slop thrown to Killers to say 'We did something for you!" and let Survivors say 'See! The devs nerf strong Survivor perks!' while ignoring how hollow, underwhelming, and ineffective the nerf is.
It's the last straw. I'd rather chew tinfoil than log in, get blasted for using 'unfair' Killer perks & 'unfair' Killer powers by 4 Survivors in a Sweat With Friends running 16 meta perks, and telling me to 'git gud' while insulting me for using 'sweat builds'. Add to that stretched res cheaters (when it's easy to fix) and flashlight seizure-macros (again; easy to fix, but Survivors are literally allowed to cause physical pain to Killers. If that does not tell you dev priorities, nothing will.)
DBD is no longer fun. It's, at times, literally physically painful to play (thanks, flashlight macro scrublords!) The devs are showing they have no idea how to fix their game or why Killers are leaving in droves. I'll just play God of War and DS3 Randomizer until Elden Ring launches next month.
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New player here (Killer main- close to 100 hours). I have read many posts in this forum and i agree most that killers are quiting.
Judging by the fact that i quitted a few days ago, i can say the game is really unplayable for killers. The MMR sucks and i end up with one good game (2 - 3 hooks) and 20 games that i have 1 hook. There is no balance. NO BALANCE. I'm trying to play different killers just to learn them and i get the same. One good game and many that i hate the game.
It's really funny to see the end screen and understand that survivors have all the purple perks and you have only 2 brown (10 lvl)!!!!!
That is the "good" Match Making!!"It's so balanced"
What is the reason then to continue playing? I don't progress, i have experiened survivors that mokking me, stay in the exit gate spamming sounds all the time, yelling and having fun over me, while im a just fcking 10 lvl!!!
Another silly thing is how MMR counts hooks etc... Cmon guys. Having 10 hooks doesnt mean you are skilled. Ok you have a good match and you kill 2-3 survivors that they are beginners like you and they are still learning the game (the problem of missing solo mode that we talked in many posts). Next match gives you 4 elite survivors and you are lucky if you have 1 hook!!!
I don't accept the excuse of "fast game". I'd rather wait 10 minutes for a good and BALANCED Match Make than get in the game in 30 secs - 1 min and hate my life for the next 15 mins.
Also, you have to consider that the game was free in Epic store at the start of December, and many new people have tried the game. Unfortunately i hear only complains and the majority of them have already quit.
The most remaining killers are only streamers who are really experienced like Otz, Hex and Tofu and i believe they are the reason the game is still alive.
If things don't change dramatically in the future, game will get worst.. Really worst..
And people who now have questions that "If the killers are quitting" they will be sure by then. Killers are quitting....
PS: A friendly advice: Respect other players! They waste time and money to be in this game and if the game isn't fun anymore then they will sure quit. Noone likes to be mokked, yelled and face toxic behavior. Not all players are the same and sure in a community there will be some morons. That doesn't mean that the next opponent will be the same.
This is a game and should be fun for all the people. If it is not there is no reason to play it.
Be respectfull and polite to other players.
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i actually just registered to upvote this post. I was one of those that got it free on epic, but i liked it at the beginning , so much that i even spent real money on a killer and played enough to unlock another one ingame (ok those Christmas gifts helped 😀). But lately the game became unplayable for me for the same reasons mentioned here. Matchmaking is all over the place, and i since im semi decent with one of the killers i cant even try out any of the other ones because i get matched with "pros" players that are clearly so much over my lvl its not fun for me, and since the matches last like 10 minutes tops not for them either i guess. And why are most of the people playing survivors so toxic? I just uninstalled the game, shame but i don't need to feel this lousy after like 4 of 5 matches i play.
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double post sorry
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Im a killer main and most the killers i knew have quit the game. i was actually the last as I havnt played since boons were out a month.
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I did find it interesting that in the Q&A they didn't want to say much about how different the killer to survivor ratio is. I firmly believe that there are far fewer killer players than ever before. People are tired of sweating their asses off, and SBMM has increased that experience ten fold. Very recently Otz was training a brand new player on how to play killer, and within just 4 games they were competing against players with thousands of hours under their belt. This is what new players have to look forward to. The sweat is all too real, and players are tired of it.
Post edited by SweetTerror on4 -
Killer main here. Before Boons I played around 50 hours a week and played survivor maybe 30 minutes a week. After . This past i have played around 6 hours and half of that as a survivor. In my situation I have definitely lost interest in playing killer. There isn't any type of reward but future nerfs. I am understanding BT is going to be in the base survivor kit at some point.
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I wasn't having fun with the game anymore. I played for months straight for hours a day. It's just not fun anymore because I'm really burned out. I don't want to try and keep playing a game when it feels like a chore. Maybe if this game is still alive by the time I'm not burned out anymore, I'll play again.
I been focused on playing other games now, like apex. Plus Im also waiting for vhs still lol.
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I think the answer they gave in the Q&A confirms lots of killers have quit suddenly, so they do not want to show the ratio or tell us, and dodged the question in a hilarious way where they answered everything but the question. The only other explanation I have is that the ratio has always been so laughably bad that they never would want to show us. But I think it's the first one.
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I was a killer main, not playing anymore till they remove sbmm.
It won't happen? I'll play other games, like i already do
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You saw in the Q&A how the devs sidestepped the answer to that question. So, it's probably true.
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It should be obvious that there are fewer killers. The number of newer, or more casual survivors greatly exceeds the number of newer and/or casual killers. Mostly what is left are the hardcore killer mains. Sure, there are a few casual killers and people that play both, but there are nowhere near as many as their used to be.
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yup, As I replied to @Tsulan Earlier:
Yes, I saw the Stream as well, and they pretty much put to bed a lot of my assumptions and complaints about SBMM being the cause for the player dropout rate, and it definitely is better than the old "Victory Cube", however, what irritated me the most was their response to this question:
@Madjura - "What is the Killer/Survivor distribution?"
Internally, this is known as the "Role Ratio"- the ratio between killers and survivors. In a perfect world, this should be 4:1, but the truth is that this fluctuates throughout the day quite often. Time of day, reigon, platform, day of the week, and seasonally all are important factors. So no specific ratio can be given, because by the time Patrick has finished talking (and I've finished writing, and you've read it) it will be wrong.
This is an excerpt from @GoodBoyKaru 's Summary of the stream, with the answer they roughly gave for it. The Problem I have with this "Sweeping it under the rug" style answer is that they treated it as if they were going to check it for the day/hour of the stream, and completely ignored the possibility of presenting us with a chart that shows the average "role ratio" per month for the past 3 or 6 months. That was something they very easily could have done, and is almost exactly what this whole post was aimed at getting ahold of, but I believe they purposely didn't do it because they don't want anyone seeing it, which adds more credence to the idea that Killers are in fact dropping out of the game more than survivors, especially over the past few months.
It was like they were covering up their Silence on the issue with a lame excuse for why it couldn't be done right then and there, while ignoring giving us what we wanted to know, and hoping we wouldn't notice or press the matter further. That really rubbed me the wrong way.
TBH, This post alone has had a Majority of comments affirming that Killer are not only dropping out, but have many reasons to, the "Straw that Broke the camels back" of which has been either introduction of SBMM or Boons. Overall, the game just feels too frustrating to anyone who takes on the killer role, and being that it's a "Thankless Job" earning nothing but gloating or abuse from the survivors, I can't say that I blame them. I really was banking on that Question pairing with my own for getting us a tangible reply, but the devs totally ignored and sidestepped the issue, which doesn't give me any faith in my assumption that the dropout rate over the past few months has been players of both roles, as opposed to just one.
Sigh... I wanted to believe so badly that the dropout rate was an even amount of both killer and survivor mains, but from everyone's comments so far, and the fact that the devs dodged the question so crudely... I can't ignore the facts presented here, because the devs haven't given us any reason to think otherwise.
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When corrupt base kit? When perk tiers removed so can play builds I want without grind problems? Hower devotion 10 (mainly kille... Soloq for Tome challenges). I usually play for rift pass, events or daily. Circle of healing and heal meta is unfun, gen rush with op builds is boring. Gens fly, you make a couple of hooks and they finish them, Healing faster then you make pressure, so you have to camp and tunnel to pressure them and beg mistakes for kills. I am playing less dbd, not have the motivation of a New game. I am finishing more single player games and play / farm gems for cards on master duel.
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They aren't dropping at all, they just want to make it seem like that to validate their inumerous complaints.
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I made a big comment on another thread, but essentially you're right. The longer survivor que times is not solely because Killer is leaving.
- MMR Is easy to raise as Killer, and difficult to raise for Survivor. So Killer's remain at high MMR, and Survivors remain medium to low unless they are in an above average SWF.
- A lot of Killers are switching from Killer to Survivor.
- Players are leaving the game. Mostly Solo survivors and Killers.
Though I think the first point is the biggest cause, which is why they are bringing in the decaying MMR, so when Killers take a break from Killer to play Survivor, or take a break from the game - they will stick around longer to play more Killer games before taking another break. Right now a Killer would take a break from Killer, play one to a few games, and then immediately go on break again. The updates are not helping.
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Oh yes, it's all some big conspiracy by the Consortium Of Killer Mains to force our complaints with lies. Very hush, hush. 🙄
Imagine thinking something like what you said, and then actually POSTING it.
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I bought DBD to be a Killer main. I was a Killer main and I quit in November. I do not play Killer at all anymore. In fact, I get annoyed when they keep giving me a screen full of Killer Rituals. I delete them as soon as I can, 1 by 1.
In fact, I took a long break from DBD and when I came back, I am 100% survivor only.
If you can't beat em, join em. I'm having more fun as a Survivor only player. I've gotten good at looping too.
0% interest in ever going back to killer because of the developers. They'd have to remove flashlights from the game, and do something about Survive with Friends in ranked. I want a SOLO ONLY queue.
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Pretty sure yeah, I quit dbd for a bit, haven't played for like a month or so, came for 6 matches during the 1.5x bp, left as soon as I saw the outcome of the matches or I should say the quality of the matches.
I invested about 2.5k hours on killer just to drop it like that but currently the game is not fun for either side.
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Well, truth hurts.
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It would, except you said some conspiracy theory you invented. Not truth. Sorry to burst your delusion.
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Yo, are we going to catch you at the next Killers meeting?
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Yeah! My turn to bring the Survivor-shaped cookies?
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More like a fanfic you made up from my post, lol. Threatening to quit is just the obvious move to try and force your demands, you don't need a group of killers "conspiring" for that. 🤪
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Keep attempting to troll. Someday, someone will fall for it.
I mean, no one smarter than you, so you will have to try REALLY hard to find someone dumber. But keep trying, kiddo! I believe in you!
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Just sharing my fair thoughts, I would say it's quite abnormal how you pull the trolling card to anyone who doesn't take the killer side. But since you get so easily offended, let's leave it at that.
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I did quit. I no longer play killer since November. I specifically bought DBD to play Killer Main.
I am now a 100% Survivor main. I delete any daily ritual that is tied to killers.
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This is my personal stats for killers matches, since 12/17/21 My kill rate is 72, its good but, i play everytime against COH, DH, BT, Unbreakable,DS, etc... and like a Otz said, if you dont try tunnel or soft camp, you dont kill people, if you try play with "fair play" ( i mean.. hooking 8 times or more) you dont kill surviors, just you are counting hooks until finally you be in the exig gates where survivors be waiting for you with their tbags and click clicks. In high MMR people play like a championship and its not fun and 80% people bulling you on high MMR, its so boring and i dont undestand why doing that, if you cout 11 hooks or tunnel or camp, you recieve bully anyway.
- 3kh = 3 kills and hatch
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Been a killer main for 4 years. I dropped out due to MMR. I used to play upwards of 20 to 30 hours a week. I play 1 hour every 3 weeks now. Can't stomach so much sweat.
I personally know 17 other killer mains who dropped out die to MMR. Of the 17, only 3 play periodically. The others have not played for at least 7 weeks.
Yeah, MMR is killing the killer experience. Look at overall game numbers on Steam alone. They are sinking.
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Some Survivors: Killers are not leaving! 🤪
Reality Of The Past 6 Months:
Guess that's all Survivors leaving, then? 😂
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That's cause if everything was balanced and fixed there shouldn't be a problem region and time of day and mmr everyone knows that system is the shits and will just slap anyone that they can in a match since this game is not a skills based game and is un balanced as hell now.
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When I slap on meme perks and run into 4x DH, 2x BT, 1x leader, 2x we'll make it, 2x CoH, 5 perks of whatever the survivors want yeah it makes me have zero desire to play the game.
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I've been watching that stat every day for all of January. It was gaining .5 - 1% loss every day up until the Blood hunt went into effect. That stopped the bleeding for about 2 days, now it's back to losing players each day.
In all, since SBMM went into effect in August, 40% of Steam players have stopped playing DbD That's a tremendous amount, especially considering there has been:
- A new killer and survivor released
- A unique seasonal event that gave away free cosmetics
- A ton of free BP codes
- A 1.5x BP, week-long event
All that and the numbers are STILL going down? That's a pretty significant loss. And while there are plenty of reasons that cause people to quit, the fact that this freefall started right when SBMM went into effect suggests a pretty strong correlation (though not necessarily a causation).
Personally, I quit after the last big round of killer nerfs. I'd just bought Deathslinger, tried him once, found him fun to play (though not especially powerful), and then boom: gutted on the vine. Why am I picking up new killers if they're just going to get the legs cut out from under them the next time a Dev decides this killer or that killer needs to be a clown for new players to run around?
Don't get me wrong: I also have atrocious matchmaking with SBMM. It was "lose 3 matches by a landslide to a team with identical perks and matching names, then get 1 match against survivors who haven't found the run button yet." Awful, awful experiences.
I keep checking the forum for any positive news that reflects the DbD team recognize their problems and are taking steps to make the game enjoyable for everyone. The Mid-chapter was a joke, so no help there. The Q&A had some neat forward-looking concepts (alternate game mode maybe, possibly, sometime in the far-flung future), but no real help there either.
Maybe some day, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Oh, I also forgot: During the period of time where DbD lost 22,000 players:
- There was a Halloween event, with its own unique tome
- TWO killers and TWO survivors released
- The game was released for free on Epic Game Store, flooding the cross-queue with a slew of new players to reduce queue times
Whole lot of "please keep playing" things getting deployed and still 40% (of Steam players) left.
Perhaps trying to "balance for the sake of balance" lost sight of what actually made the game fun to play?
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I say as an experienced DBD player of 2 hectres:
I think although they can be very stupid, they have potential and are quite competent in most cases. I think dropping out will slow there potential and they should continue to learn and gain new experiences.
I am a nursery drop out and have never gone a higher education than this, and from experience I have been held back for 32 years now that I am turning 21. I now have 5 kids, 1 kid and three Grandmother's that look after me while I look after them (We are Italian and all live together (4 generations in the 1 house). Since retiring from nursery I now have become a full time Hispanic and love enchilada or two (if my bowels or okay even 3 at weekend! ).
Anyways that is my take on dropping out of educations.
Kind Regards,
Nanny McFee,
Not Director:
MacAfee Security.
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I'm sure someone has said this but while I enjoy Killer more than Survivor I am hesitant to play the role because of how all or nothing the experience feels right now. Playing Killer more consistently would help but today my matches went like
Game with 1k because I had to camp for it.
Game with 4k
Game with 1k because I had to tunnel for it
Game with 1k again, Springwood
Game with 4k (1 DC, 3 kills)
Game with 3k (1 DC, 2 kill, 1 hatch escape)
Game with 2k (2 DC, I let the other two Survivors go)
It just feels like every game is either going to be a stomp in my favor or me sweating my recently re-buffed ass off to get a kill at all. Any stomp after the initial whupping feels like a pity win.
I just do not feel like I am playing at consistent levels. Just be bounded back and forth between survivors who ate considerably weaker than me and survivors who are considerably better than me. If I didn't let the last two go it would have been another 3k guaranteed and potential 4k.
I enjoy when I make good plays with Pyramid Head but it really feels like eventually I'll just be punished for it, even if the system isn't intended to be like that.
Edit: this isn't to say I couldn't just continue to get better and climb to new heights but the difficulty spikes rn for any sort of improvement feels too harsh
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3kh = 3 kills and hatch - i play on PS4- after midnight in South America - crossplay on
This is my personal stats for killers matches, since 12/17/21 My kill rate is 72, its good but, i play everytime against COH, DH, BT, Unbreakable,DS, etc... and like a Otz said, if you dont try tunnel or soft camp, you dont kill people, if you try play with "fair play" ( i mean.. hooking 8 times or more) you dont kill surviors, just you are counting hooks until finally you be in the exig gates where survivors be waiting for you with their tbags and click clicks. In high MMR people play like a championship and its not fun and 80% people bulling you on high MMR, its so boring and i dont undestand that, if you cout 11 hooks or tunnel or camp, you recieve bully anyway
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Yeah, do not listen to him. It exists. I used to be a part of it myself but they kicked me out for leaking top secret killer main agendas. It was just a minor infraction based on the killer rule book, but now that I am no longer part of that shadow organization, I do not care what happens to me. There is a large group on this forums and we decide what to complain about behind the scenes to change the game in our vision. First we came for Circle of Healing and now with that out of the way, we will come down on Dead Hard. Watch as it happens just as I said. Take that Consortium of Killers. Bet you regret kicking the #1 NA Bubba.
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They also said that kills and escapes wouldn't be what determined your SBMM score so, it's not like they haven't lied to us in the past.
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Actually killers rank up much faster in SBMM there are just a lot less of them, when sbmm hit higher skilled killers had pretty long queue times and through datamining they found that there were significantly was a significantly higher amount of killers at the MMR softcap (cap at which the matchmaking stops caring not the actual MMR cap which doesn't exist to my knowledge) then survivors but after a few days the majority of players that were in queue were already at that cap.
So it was pretty much the same situation as with the color grades where the majority of players were at red ranks which made it not really matter much.
That said they keep changing that MMR soft cap so who knows what they are right now but based on what I've seen with SBMM not actually being a good measure of skill and the heavy inconsistencies between matches tells me that even if the numbers have changed the problem hasn't.
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You can also see an 18% dip in players in August when the sbmm came out so I think there might be a slight correlation.
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